Khashoggi 'died after fight' - Saudis

oldjones said:

Evidence presented like the Saudi explanations so far?

"He left the Consulate alive, but we have no records, no cameras, you know how it is, so we can't say when.

"Ooops! Actually he suffocated in one of our brawls, no one here pays attention to those. No idea where the body is.

"Ooops! Actually one of the Turkish local staff stealing a carpet thought having a body inside the rug would look more normal. No idea why that body hasn't turned up.

"Ooops! Oh that body, the one cut up for mulch around the Consul's rose bushes? Trust us, we'll have an explanation for that, too. Some day.

So far the Turks look like pretty competent investigators, the Saudi explanations have been utterly incredible and unworthy of belief since the beginning, and everything we know supports the premise that short-sighted autocrats and their lickspittle functionaries clumsily ordered this assassination without considering the consequences in the larger world outside their closed Kingdom. Much like Donny's best bro' Kim ordering the assassination of his half-brother in Singapore. Donny of course wishes he could do as much with his turbulent journos.

What's up with the Turks demanding the murderers be tried in Istanbul is that without their investigations, ignoring diplomatic extra-territoriality, the Saudis would still be spinning fairy-tales about fistfights and carpet-rolls. Expecting the Saudis to do anything is like expecting Al Capone to bust speakeasies.
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Since yopu mention Bruce McArthur, it would appear he was considerably more competent than the Saudis as it took a good half-dozen years for his crimes and the resulting body-parts to come to notice. And months, not mere days, of police searching. But that may have been the winter weather here.

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bver_hunter said:

Clearly the Saudi Plant wore all of Khashoggi's clothing, except his shoes to try and deceive the security cameras that it was Khashoggi leaving the Consulate. That was off course very amateurish considering that this plant walked into the Consulate with totally different clothing. I think that the clothing was disposed directly by this plant and was caught on camera. But I guess your take on it is very interesting. I think there are a few alt right websites that are coming to the same conclusion as you. These Turks are such bad guys!!

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Bud Plug said:

I don't trust the conclusions of either the Saudis or the Turks. Neither of them have earned my trust, and both have reasons to lie. I believe they will both submit their evidence (who cares about their conclusions) to US intelligence, and that US Intelligence will likely gather some evidence of their own. Although the CIA is not to be trusted in all circumstances either, I think they are likely to call this one as they see it (given the countries involved (2 allies, 2 corrupt regimes)). I'll wait for that.

And I still find it incredibly strange for Turkey to insist that they conduct the prosecution of the murderers. They clearly have no right to, their own justice system is highly suspect (in terms of its independence from the government), and its request is exactly what a country would do if they wanted to control the scope of the inquiry (because their own hands were dirty somehow). Stay tuned, there are more twists left in this one.

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Bud Plug said:

I don't trust the conclusions of either the Saudis or the Turks. Neither of them have earned my trust, and both have reasons to lie. I believe they will both submit their evidence (who cares about their conclusions) to US intelligence, and that US Intelligence will likely gather some evidence of their own. Although the CIA is not to be trusted in all circumstances either, I think they are likely to call this one as they see it (given the countries involved (2 allies, 2 corrupt regimes)). I'll wait for that.

And I still find it incredibly strange for Turkey to insist that they conduct the prosecution of the murderers. They clearly have no right to, their own justice system is highly suspect (in terms of its independence from the government), and its request is exactly what a country would do if they wanted to control the scope of the inquiry (because their own hands were dirty somehow). Stay tuned, there are more twists left in this one.

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oagre said:

Bud, why would Turkey NOT want to control the prosecution of this murder? It's a serious crime committed on Turskish soil. Diplomatic immunity doesn't cover felonies.

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Bud Plug said:

No extradition treaty between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. While ad hoc agreements to extradite can be made, I doubt that will happen given the murderers and victim were Saudi, and the murder took place on Saudi soil.

I can think of a number of reasons why Turkey would WANT to control the trial; however, not all of those possible reasons would be honorable.

p.s. Not that this is all that relevant, because the murderers were not diplomats, but how would any of the diplomatic agents of SA ever be subject to a criminal trial in Turkey? http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf (see article 31)

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oagre said:

My understanding was that diplomatic immunity does not extend to major crimes, although the UN link suggests differently. It also states that an embassy or consulate cannot be searched by the host country and the diplomatic bag cannot be opened by the host country.

Not sure what the legal status is, in light of the UN materials. I could well be a bilateral treaty between Turkey and SA.

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oagre said:

CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Khashoggi murder: report
By Jesse Byrnes - 11/16/18 06:32 PM EST

The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi inside the country's consulate in Istanbul last month, The Washington Post reported Friday.

The agency has high confidence in its assessment, the newspaper reported. The CIA reportedly examined multiple sources of intelligence in reaching its conclusion, including a call between the crown prince's brother Khalid bin Salman and Khashoggi.

Khalid, who is the Saudi ambassador to the U.S., reportedly told Khashoggi, who was a columnist for The Post, that he should go to the country's consulate in Istanbul to get documents for his marriage to a Turkish woman, offering assurances that he would be safe.

People familiar with the call, reportedly intercepted by U.S. intelligence, told The Post that it wasn't clear if Khalid knew Khashoggi would be killed when he returned to the consulate, but said that he made the call at the direction of his brother.

The Saudi government has claimed that the crown prince was not involved in Khashoggi's death, and a spokesperson for the Saudi Embassy in Washington issued a statement Friday denying that Khalid had any phone conversations with Khashoggi.

"The claims in this purported assessment is false. We have and continue to hear various theories without seeing the primary basis for these speculations," the spokesperson said.

The statement added that the ambassador met with Khashoggi once in late September 2017 for a "cordial discussion" and they texted into the following month.

A spokesperson for the CIA didn't immediately return a request for comment from The Hill on Friday evening.

“Alhamdulillah. The truth shall prevail,” Karen Attiah, Khashoggi’s editor at The Post who has been a vocal critic of Saudi explanations for his death, tweeted in response to the newspaper's report on Friday evening.

CIA Director Gina Haspel visited Turkey late last month and briefed President Trump on her findings once returning to the U.S.

Khashoggi disappeared after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2 to obtain papers for his marriage.

Turkish officials have said that he was killed by a Saudi hit squad shortly after entering the consulate, and was then dismembered and his body removed from the premises.

The Saudi government issued several conflicting explanations for his disappearance before eventually acknowledging that he was killed inside the consulate, while denying that the crown prince was involved.

Saudi Arabia’s public prosecutor said this week that it would seek the death penalty for five suspects allegedly involved in the killing.

Khashoggi's death sparked an international firestorm, with bipartisan members of Congress calling on the Saudi royal court to be punished.

“I have a lot of concerns about the trajectory that Saudi Arabia is on right now, and I think a price needs to be paid,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said in a statement Thursday.

The White House announced Thursday that it was sanctioning 17 Saudi officials in relation to the killing, including Saud al-Qahtani, a former top aide to Salman who the Treasury Department says was part of the “planning and execution” of the operation.

The sanctions mark the United States' most sweeping punishment to date of Saudis over the journalist's killing.

However, NBC News reported Thursday that the White House is weighing deporting a Turkish dissident back to Turkey to try to get the country to ease the pressure it is putting on Saudi Arabia for conducting an assassination on its soil.

Trump has appeared reluctant to impose any severe punishment on Saudi Arabia, including resisting calls to lessen or cancel an arms deal with the kingdom worth billions of dollars.

– Tal Axelrod contributed

Updated: 7:30 p.m.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...-crown-prince-ordered-khashoggi-murder-report

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