Waiting for Trump to be impeached or rendered a lame duck this fall.
That's the smart game.
U.S. congressman warns Canada's NAFTA team that time is running out
- Thread starter Charlemagne
- Start date
That's the smart game.
Trudeau and Freeland have never negotiated a real deal in their life, and it shows.
Look at this epic fuck up: https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-white-house-not-amused-with-freelands-tyrant-antics
They simply do not get it, and do not realize if you are going to negotiate publicly, you better damned well know what you are doing.
It is a chess game, and they are playing checkers... badly. Uncertainty only benefits the USA, and the markets and jobs prove it.
Let me know if you want to buy an un-built pipeline for 4.5 BILLION. I think I can get you a deal.
You really think Trudeau and Freeland are negotiating this? Don't be rediculous. The Canadian lead negotiator is Steve Verheul, based on people that know him, he is a kick ass negotiator. To me that fact that the Americans are expressing frustratation publically and trying pressure tactics is a sign our team is doing a FANTASTIC job. When Trump said he was gonna leave Canada out, Canada reached out to our powerful friends and Nancy Pelosi publically kiboshed that possibility.
China is NOT a preferable trading partner for Canada compared to the US on any level. Haven't you been paying attention? They don't respect IP laws. They place enormous barriers to foreigners doing business inside China. They regularly engage in fraudulent schemes to avoid foreign tariffs while keeping foreign goods out of its domestic markets. They don't share the same social values regarding social programs, poverty reduction, or just about anything else.That may be part of the deal, but we will be forced to open up our economy to China more. We have already agreed to do so to to Europe and several other countries through CETA and the CPTPP. Things will change but I think we need to prepare for a world where the US is no longer preeminent. The sooner we get on with it the less the shock will be. I am sure some of the language at the table is - "if you area trying to force Canada into the arms of China then go ahead with your tariff plan"
While US pre-eminence may not last forever, we should neither look forward to its end nor hasten it. Give China a chance to develop into a more responsible trading partner first.
You're totally out to lunch. Look at the "investment dollars". WHAT investment dollars have flowed TO the US because of Trump's NAFTA stances? Even with the wage increase for Mexican content (which helps Canada too, btw) they are still the low wage country amongst the three. And please point to how Trump's tariffs have helped investment in the absence of any deals? You need to pay attention to the details. eg: Steel Tariffs have done nothing except hurt US manufacturing. That's why Trump (3 weeks ago) gave South Korea, Brazil, and Argentina and exemption from the tariffs - so that US Manufacturers could source cheaper steel (now from these countries). Do you know how much market they had pre-tariff? 25%. NOW they have an exemption and an advantage to gain market share over countries like Canada. You applaud this? His stance on NAFTA involves his obsession with "300% tariffs on dairy". Anybody who knows anything knows that this 300% number is NOT applied to all dairy - but Trump is fixated on this. I predict that Canada will give Trump a win on this (i.e. the 300% number), since it actually does not affect much in terms of our trade. But in return we need to get something back. IF Trump is unwilling, then Canada should not bend. Then Trump can brag to his idiots about "killing the 300% tariff" and the rest of the negotiating teams (on both sides) can conclude the deal.lol they have been negotiating publicly for months. Months. This includes when you wear T shirts to the airport. I have negotiated a lot of deals. I do not recall any T shirts being worn by anyone wanting to play tough guy... uhhh... I mean tough peoples. You are also not doing so great a job when you are not even at the table for key negotiations. Epic fuck up.
Trump has already won the negotiations. Just look at the investment dollars. Look at the job numbers. The first rule of negotiation is do not assume you all have the same goal. The liberals publicly negotiated and played "tough peoples", including saying they would enforce women's and indigenous rights. Do you hear a lot about that now? All that posturing just fucked them up. Now is the reality check.
I swear, Liberals should change our national symbol to the weasel while they are in power.
BTW - The only investment dollars that have flown to the US have gone because of tax cuts NOT trade negotiations. These tax cuts are being funded by deficits. Trump is SO stupid that he actually believed that to pay off the National Debt, the US could simply "print more money".
Actually, Trump and his handlers have been quite smart. They fucked the low wage people that supported him on tax cuts (they got crumbs) then they fucked them again with tariffs on comsumer goods, and steel. The tariffs will generate substantial revenue, and the poorest consumers who buy Chinese goods will pay for them. All the fat cats in metals industry will make HUGE profts (steel prices up 41% in the US) while a lot of others will become very uncompetive because their inputs costs (from steel and Chinese parts) will soar vs Europe, Canada and other countries. In the mean time those yokels believe his rethoric about protecting American jobs.You're totally out to lunch. Look at the "investment dollars". WHAT investment dollars have flowed TO the US because of Trump's NAFTA stances? Even with the wage increase for Mexican content (which helps Canada too, btw) they are still the low wage country amongst the three. And please point to how Trump's tariffs have helped investment in the absence of any deals? You need to pay attention to the details. eg: Steel Tariffs have done nothing except hurt US manufacturing. That's why Trump (3 weeks ago) gave South Korea, Brazil, and Argentina and exemption from the tariffs - so that US Manufacturers could source cheaper steel (now from these countries). Do you know how much market they had pre-tariff? 25%. NOW they have an exemption and an advantage to gain market share over countries like Canada. You applaud this? His stance on NAFTA involves his obsession with "300% tariffs on dairy". Anybody who knows anything knows that this 300% number is NOT applied to all dairy - but Trump is fixated on this. I predict that Canada will give Trump a win on this (i.e. the 300% number), since it actually does not affect much in terms of our trade. But in return we need to get something back. IF Trump is unwilling, then Canada should not bend. Then Trump can brag to his idiots about "killing the 300% tariff" and the rest of the negotiating teams (on both sides) can conclude the deal.
BTW - The only investment dollars that have flown to the US have gone because of tax cuts NOT trade negotiations. These tax cuts are being funded by deficits. Trump is SO stupid that he actually believed that to pay off the National Debt, the US could simply "print more money".
WTF? This post above says all anybody needs to know about "Garrett".lol you always get so excited Francis. Unfortunately, the fundamentals do not back you up.
Keep ranting though! This is not as good as when you tried to excuse sexual assault. Maybe try to up your game?
Once again, you reveal yourself "Garrett". Look in the mirror. You'll attack anybody and anything you perceive as "Liberal" even when the facts don't support your braindead, knee jerk reaction. Case in point - WAY back when Brown was being taken out by internal party factions.... yup - you blamed "Liberals". It's the same for the NAFTA negotiations. These haven't even been concluded but you weigh in with your "expert" views - totally out to lunch with your "facts". Again - please demonstrate with an example the winning investments in the US that have resulted from Trump's NAFTA negotiation tactics and/or his tariffs. And keep in mind these need to be NET gains Garrett. Look up what the means. I'll wait.No WTF needed, this is when you tried to excuse the head groper with your bizarre logic.
You will defend Trudeau beyond all logic and norms of decency. I find that sad. As I said, up your game. Flex your brain.
You know, this is a good topic. I have an allegiance to no party.
When Trudeau was elected, I thought he was a poor choice, and naive. I really hoped though that being naive, he would try to do the right thing. I decided to wait and see.
I have now watched him systematically and selfishly drive legislation that I disagree with, and make horrible deals for Canada. He is going to continue this with the next budget and pay equity legislation. He has violated ethics and paid off people. If he wanted a pipeline, we would have a pipeline. Instead we blew 5 BILLION. He weaseled out though as he is playing for his party, not Canada. As for NAFTA, I want the best for Canada. When you negotiate publicly, and insult someone as vain as Trump, you're guaranteed to fail. Trudeau and Freeland attending anti Trump rallies, doing virtue signalling against the US, and wearing goddamn NAFTA negotiation T Shirts at the airport are on the level of a high school mentality.
I think one of the greatest politicians in recent history was Paul Martin. 100% liberal. A great finance minister, who I think lost himself as the party leader. The Liberal party have lost themselves as well. Their only measure of success now is if they get elected. They do not give a fuck about Canada.
What I am asking of you is to think, and think independently. There is nothing you will not excuse for your leader, including sexual assault. The difference with me, is there is nothing I will excuse for Canada. We deserve great leadership, not the aimless, stupid, naive hack we have now.
What a bunch of meaningless pap. You're the one who entered this thread with partisan BS which was not backed with fact. I challenged you to back up your BS with examples. Instead you post this pap. LOOK IN THE MIRROR.
One of the remaining sticking points appears to be a refusal by the US to commit not to impose auto tariffs on Canada in the future. Not sure how Canada could agree to anything without such an assurance given Trumps proclivity to utter the word tariffs depending on how he wake up or what Hannit mentions. I agree with Trudeau (and this may be the only thing i agree with) that no deal is better than a bad deal. A bad deal is just and invitation to more problems down the road.
Define "bad deal". Do you believe there is a deal on the table that is worse for Canada than a tariff war?One of the remaining sticking points appears to be a refusal by the US to commit not to impose auto tariffs on Canada in the future. Not sure how Canada could agree to anything without such an assurance given Trumps proclivity to utter the word tariffs depending on how he wake up or what Hannit mentions. I agree with Trudeau (and this may be the only thing i agree with) that no deal is better than a bad deal. A bad deal is just and invitation to more problems down the road.
Without the dispute settlement mechanism and the agreement for no future auto tariffs you are simple deferring the tariff war. The other items, inclsuing dairy, should be ojn the table, however, the US should eliminate their quotas and non-tariff barriers which are more restrictive than the Canadian tariffs.Define "bad deal". Do you believe there is a deal on the table that is worse for Canada than a tariff war?
The loss of NAFTA will not be good for anyone, however it wold not derail their growing economy & but would cause a recession here in CanadaNot necessarily, we lose more as a % of GDP if all hell breaks lose, but Canada has a trade deficit in services and manufactured goods to the US so we may actually benefit in the long run.
Auto sales tend to slow (a lot) in a recession, so your point is mootOf course car choices will suck but we will have more Euro cars.
The auto makers will source more from the US to avoid the tariffs and in order to survive.Disruption will be bad for all in the short run, but its not clear what will actually emerge from the train wreck.
Once they turn their supply chain upside down , they will not revert back regardless of who is in the white house
Th damage will have been done, the train wreckage will be in southern OntThe President may lose his authority to apply tariffs if he causes too much of a trainwreck
The loss of NAFTA will not be good for anyone, however it wold not derail their growing economy & but would cause a recession here in Canada
Auto sales tend to slow (a lot) in a recession, so your point is moot
The auto makers will source more from the US to avoid the tariffs and in order to survive.
Once they turn their supply chain upside down , they will not revert back regardless of who is in the white house
Th damage will have been done, the train wreckage will be in southern Ont
For automakers to revise their supply chains would take literally years and billions of dollars of investment. That’s what Trump doesn’t realize and what EVERY manufacturer has been telling him. Where do you suppose a Ford or a GM will get the funds to finance major capital investments to replace their current supply chains and manufacturing infrastructure? Anybody looked at their stock performance? What Trump is actually doing is gambling with American company’s that needed to be bailed out just a decade ago. The notion that the US would “win” if NAFTA is derailed is a fool’s game and only idiots buy it. It would be a disaster for Canada AND the US.
O
OnTheWayOut
It's the beginning of the end for Trump .... again!!!!Waiting for Trump to be impeached or rendered a lame duck this fall.
That's the smart game.
