Toronto Escorts

Court stops Doug Ford from changing council size!

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
70,800
69,955
113
Clearly it is a right that can not be withdrawn at any time, as the judge explicitly ruled. In fact he pointed out that timing was an essential element of the law's failure to accord with the Charter. Enacted midway between elections by the customary parliamentary process it could in no way have been seen as depriving citizens of their rights of expression anywhere. The rushed process Doug chose abridged our rights at City hall and at Queen's Park, and it deprived even his lawyers of the opportunity to formulate a response to the obvious question, "What's the emergency? Why can't this be done reasonably, like every electoral change before it?

There's been not a shred of evidence presented anywhere that "Toronto…independence, … didn't work out very well." In fact the evidence that it's still the economic engine of the Province and the Nation and growing daily, contradicts that baseless assertion.

Wouldn't it be nice if someone involved thought as you and wanted to improve the administration of the City of Toronto? Again, not a shred of evidence presented that Doug had that in mind, and nothing in his infantile proposal that will help. Shrinking is not improvement. It just reflects his obvious bitterness about not getting more of his way in the years he and his brother were at City Hall, undoing what they could and stalling whatever they couldn't whenever hadn't the votes. Vote after vote after vote. He had no plan for improvement then and has offered none now.

Well said.

Cue the Plug's next mouthful of ranting bluster.......
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,888
17,930
113
Oh yes, the same cowardly drivel I heard from you last time. Which proves to me you are a fraud.
Must be awkward for you to see someone actually stand behind their beliefs.
What are you talking about?
I bet with moviefan, he lost and welched.
I also bet with Phil, and we'll see who wins that one.
You seem even less trustworthy then moviefan, so why should I bet with you?
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
What are you talking about?
I bet with moviefan, he lost and welched.
I also bet with Phil, and we'll see who wins that one.
You seem even less trustworthy then moviefan, so why should I bet with you?
Because you truly believe that you know what you are talking about and I'm giving you a great opportunity to prove me wrong.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
No need, you've already made the bet.
What are you going to do, quit terb twice?
Actually you will be a loser for not taking my bet first, and then a loser when I win it. So that will make you a 2x loser.
Something to look forward too eh?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
How desperate are you when you are rooting for someone you don't like just so the other person you doesn't beat the guy you have no choice but to like?
It's obvious you're at sea about Toronto's governance, but are you as confused about your side-bet as that reads?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,888
17,930
113
How desperate are you when you are rooting for someone you don't like just so the other person you doesn't beat the guy you have no choice but to like?
I'm just happy that there are twice as many conservatives for the progressives to beat this year.
More choice is better in democracy, right?
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
Clearly it is a right that can not be withdrawn at any time, as the judge explicitly ruled. In fact he pointed out that timing was an essential element of the law's failure to accord with the Charter. Enacted midway between elections by the customary parliamentary process it could in no way have been seen as depriving citizens of their rights of expression anywhere. The rushed process Doug chose abridged our rights at City hall and at Queen's Park, and it deprived even his lawyers of the opportunity to formulate a response to the obvious question, "What's the emergency? Why can't this be done reasonably, like every electoral change before it?

There's been not a shred of evidence presented anywhere that "Toronto…independence, … didn't work out very well." In fact the evidence that it's still the economic engine of the Province and the Nation and growing daily, contradicts that baseless assertion.

Wouldn't it be nice if someone involved thought as you and wanted to improve the administration of the City of Toronto? Again, not a shred of evidence presented that Doug had that in mind, and nothing in his infantile proposal that will help. Shrinking is not improvement. It just reflects his obvious bitterness about not getting more of his way in the years he and his brother were at City Hall, undoing what they could and stalling whatever they couldn't whenever they hadn't the votes. Vote after vote after vote. He had no plan for improvement then, and has offered none now.
Simply put, the judge got this wrong. He substituted his view of "best government practices" for the minimum legal obligations of the provincial government. This is exactly tis type of judicial activism that caused provinces to demand that a notwithstanding provision form part of the charter.

Here's some evidence that Toronto is not functioning well: a) its infrastructure (including its roads system) is crumbling, b) its public housing is in a horrific state of disrepair, c) its development of adequate public transit is 40-50 years behind schedule, e) council has extensive debates about many topics that are not even within the purview of municipal authority (international genocides, as but one example), f) Council still can't figure out how to stop Councillors from spending their budgets on expenses unrelated to their duties, g) it has seemingly no strategy to eliminate homelessness and its associated problems, h) there is still no cohesive vision for the development of many important areas of the city (notably the waterfront) and i) it manages to fail in so many respects while accruing significant debt and an increasing budget gap https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ive-142-billion-budget-gap-in-five-years.html . The fact that an elephant may take a long time to die is hardly proof that it's healthy. Toronto will continue to be the economic engine of Ontario because there is no alternative. However, with some vision and the right leadership, it could be so much more than it is. It's too important to the entire province to allow Toronto to simply continue upon the trends it has been following.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
'oldjones' referred to your previous post as "utterly unrealistic twaddle' and now your above quoted response is 'utter gibberish' cloaked in veil of 'rubbish'.

Your knowledge and history of the functional effectiveness of the City of Toronto Council is basically low to non existent mixed with heaping and heavy doses of alternative reality.
Your posts are always unpersuasive and lack substance, but they are usually more funny.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,120
2,768
113
Your posts are always unpersuasive and lack substance, but they are usually more funny.
Difficult to penetrate an object as dense as lead, plus lead is never funny.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,120
2,768
113
Simply put, the judge got this wrong. He substituted his view of "best government practices" for the minimum legal obligations of the provincial government. This is exactly tis type of judicial activism that caused provinces to demand that a notwithstanding provision form part of the charter.

Here's some evidence that Toronto is not functioning well: a) its infrastructure (including its roads system) is crumbling, b) its public housing is in a horrific state of disrepair, c) its development of adequate public transit is 40-50 years behind schedule, e) council has extensive debates about many topics that are not even within the purview of municipal authority (international genocides, as but one example), f) Council still can't figure out how to stop Councillors from spending their budgets on expenses unrelated to their duties, g) it has seemingly no strategy to eliminate homelessness and its associated problems, h) there is still no cohesive vision for the development of many important areas of the city (notably the waterfront) and i) it manages to fail in so many respects while accruing significant debt and an increasing budget gap https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ive-142-billion-budget-gap-in-five-years.html . The fact that an elephant may take a long time to die is hardly proof that it's healthy. Toronto will continue to be the economic engine of Ontario because there is no alternative. However, with some vision and the right leadership, it could be so much more than it is. It's too important to the entire province to allow Toronto to simply continue upon the trends it has been following.
So much subjective and biased nonsense written with nary a substantive fact to support your noise.

Not getting into a point by point deconstructing of your fabrications at this time because quite frankly it would be too time consuming to justify the nonsense you post. but for a starter I'll provide you a link to your mythical and wholly fabricated dysfunctional 47 council nonsense.

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/9150-2018_Preliminary_Budget_Overview.pdf

HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE 2018-2027 CAPITAL BUDGET AND PLAN

$7.1 billion to fund the City’s two largest transit investments, SmartTrack and the Scarborough Subway Extension

• $5.1 billion to continue the state of good repair projects for the TTC’s infrastructure and vehicle replacement to rehabilitate, repair and maintain transit facilities and support Automatic Train Control

• $524 million in funding for growth-related waterfront initiatives including $381 million for Port Lands flood protection

• $659 million to address state of good repair projects in the City’s parks and recreation facilities

• $253 million for the design and construction of fi ve new community centres

• $4.5 billion to maintain Transportation Services’ assets in a state of good repair including 5,600 km of roads, 7,950 km of sidewalks, 900 bridges/culverts and 2,400 traffi c control signals.



These are just a few of the services the City provides:

• Toronto Early Learning & Child Care Services has 52 centres and one home child care agency that serve over 3,000 children

• 38,226 children from 27,387 families benefited from a child care subsidy in 2017

•The City manages and maintains 123 community recreation centres, 86 club houses, 127 indoor and outdoor ice pads, 118 indoor and outdoor pools, 109 splash pads, more than 1,500 parks, 602 tennis
courts, 694 sports fields and 858 playgrounds and five golf courses

• Toronto Public Library is the busiest urban public library system in the world with more than 18 million
visitors and 33 million website visits in a year

• The City issues and renews close to 100,000 business licenses and permits annually

• Toronto operates 10 Long-Term Care Homes with 2,641 beds responding to local needs offering
specialized behavioural support programs, short-stay respite and convalescent care beds

• The City invests $330 million of federal, provincial and municipal investments to develop and improve 4,000 affordable rental and ownership homes for lower-income people and create 8,000 jobs

• Toronto provides nearly one million drop-in services for vulnerable residents such as a meal, shower and access to laundry and clothing




Shadup u face.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
So much subjective and biased nonsense written with nary a substantive fact to support your noise.

Not getting into a point by point deconstructing of your fabrications at this time because quite frankly it would be too time consuming to justify the nonsense you post. but for a starter I'll provide you a link to your mythical and wholly fabricated dysfunctional 47 council nonsense.

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/9150-2018_Preliminary_Budget_Overview.pdf

HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE 2018-2027 CAPITAL BUDGET AND PLAN

$7.1 billion to fund the City’s two largest transit investments, SmartTrack and the Scarborough Subway Extension

• $5.1 billion to continue the state of good repair projects for the TTC’s infrastructure and vehicle replacement to rehabilitate, repair and maintain transit facilities and support Automatic Train Control

• $524 million in funding for growth-related waterfront initiatives including $381 million for Port Lands flood protection

• $659 million to address state of good repair projects in the City’s parks and recreation facilities

• $253 million for the design and construction of fi ve new community centres

• $4.5 billion to maintain Transportation Services’ assets in a state of good repair including 5,600 km of roads, 7,950 km of sidewalks, 900 bridges/culverts and 2,400 traffi c control signals.



These are just a few of the services the City provides:

• Toronto Early Learning & Child Care Services has 52 centres and one home child care agency that serve over 3,000 children

• 38,226 children from 27,387 families benefited from a child care subsidy in 2017

•The City manages and maintains 123 community recreation centres, 86 club houses, 127 indoor and outdoor ice pads, 118 indoor and outdoor pools, 109 splash pads, more than 1,500 parks, 602 tennis
courts, 694 sports fields and 858 playgrounds and five golf courses

• Toronto Public Library is the busiest urban public library system in the world with more than 18 million
visitors and 33 million website visits in a year

• The City issues and renews close to 100,000 business licenses and permits annually

• Toronto operates 10 Long-Term Care Homes with 2,641 beds responding to local needs offering
specialized behavioural support programs, short-stay respite and convalescent care beds

• The City invests $330 million of federal, provincial and municipal investments to develop and improve 4,000 affordable rental and ownership homes for lower-income people and create 8,000 jobs

• Toronto provides nearly one million drop-in services for vulnerable residents such as a meal, shower and access to laundry and clothing




Shadup u face.
Anyone who spends any time at all in this city, and moves around within it, and is the least bit intellectually honest, wouldn't take issue with any of the shortcomings I identified. You don't need any links. Just travel to just about anywhere in the city, at just about any time of day, and open your eyes. Your PR materials can't put lipstick on the pig that anyone can observe with the their own eyes.

Your post reads like the kind of things John Tory says to the press about how everything is under control. I'm pretty sure that Tory must not drive himself much around the city, trying to do business. I'm sure he has no clue what commuting into or out of the city is like, or delivering or picking up goods is like for commercial businesses.

The city spends money on some initiatives. They just don't solve any problems or even keep pace with them.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Simply put, the judge got this wrong. He substituted his view of "best government practices" for the minimum legal obligations of the provincial government. This is exactly tis type of judicial activism that caused provinces to demand that a notwithstanding provision form part of the charter.

Here's some evidence that Toronto is not functioning well: a) its infrastructure (including its roads system) is crumbling, b) its public housing is in a horrific state of disrepair, c) its development of adequate public transit is 40-50 years behind schedule, e) council has extensive debates about many topics that are not even within the purview of municipal authority (international genocides, as but one example), f) Council still can't figure out how to stop Councillors from spending their budgets on expenses unrelated to their duties, g) it has seemingly no strategy to eliminate homelessness and its associated problems, h) there is still no cohesive vision for the development of many important areas of the city (notably the waterfront) and i) it manages to fail in so many respects while accruing significant debt and an increasing budget gap https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ive-142-billion-budget-gap-in-five-years.html . The fact that an elephant may take a long time to die is hardly proof that it's healthy. Toronto will continue to be the economic engine of Ontario because there is no alternative. However, with some vision and the right leadership, it could be so much more than it is. It's too important to the entire province to allow Toronto to simply continue upon the trends it has been following.
Sez you. I don't agree with your mis-characterization of the basis for the judge's decision. We shall see what the Appeal Court rules. Until then, SOP says he got it right.

Like the Ontario Legislature, the Conservative Party of Ontario or any institution you care to name, the City of Toronto could function better. However the claim here and the issue you're ducking is Ford's of repeated claim that Council is "dysfunctional". Mostly you ignored Council entirely and much of what you've listed has been up stuck on the agenda since the last Tory government bollixed up our City with its Kindergarten thinking:

a) Is the inevitable result of Rob's repeal of taxes already in place and refusal to raise new ones. Although Council approves budgets, taxes and such, they come from the Mayors.
b) Is the White Elephant Harris dumped on us, without any money to run it, while he took a whack of our business assessment to juice the Province's budget.
c) Thanks to Rob, and Harris before him. Pre-Amalgamation we we digging a subway, the Duffer then filled in, and we we funded and were building City-wide transit until Rob pulled the plug.

d) Apparently you found no D for dysfunctional item to list.

e) It's up to Council to decide what they discuss and what they rule out of order; that's functioning democracy. Cite the proportion of productive an unproductive hours if you like. In which slot do you put the time wasted on Rob and David Shiner's Plastic Bag Debate?
f) Nor has any police agency managed to stop any wrongdoing. But they like Toronto Council, have sanctioned the wrongdoers they've detected, that's typically how these things function.
g) has any government anywhere got a strategy to eliminate homelessness? Has Ford?
h) You're dead wrong about there being no strategy for developing the Waterfront. That strategic plan is actually extremely detailed and thoroughgoing. Find another.
i) Same problem in new words as a) above, what a tidy wrap-around:
• From your cited article - As Tory has continued former mayor Rob Ford’s tradition of demanding at-inflation residential property tax increases, council has continued to draw on a rainy-day reserve to balance the books.. Also noting the article once again states that "found efficiencies" cannot make up for a 10% shortfall in revenue. Raising revenue is the answer; the foremost dysfunctional fools who made TAX CUTS ONLY, NEVER RAISE TAXES their prime Article of Faith were both named Ford although they were far from alone.

I quite agree that, "It's too important to the entire province to allow Toronto to simply continue upon the trends it has been following." That's why I oppose having yet more of them imposed dictatorially, undemocratically and destructively by a man we at last got rid of, and who supposedly has better things to do for far greater number of people he was elected elected to serve. We neither need nor want his help. More of it will ruin Toronto.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
Sez you. I don't agree with your mis-characterization of the basis for the judge's decision. We shall see what the Appeal Court rules. Until then, SOP says he got it right.

Like the Ontario Legislature, the Conservative Party of Ontario or any institution you care to name, the City of Toronto could function better. However the claim here and the issue you're ducking is Ford's of repeated claim that Council is "dysfunctional". Mostly you ignored Council entirely and much of what you've listed has been up stuck on the agenda since the last Tory government bollixed up our City with its Kindergarten thinking:

a) Is the inevitable result of Rob's repeal of taxes already in place and refusal to raise new ones. Although Council approves budgets, taxes and such, they come from the Mayors.
b) Is the White Elephant Harris dumped on us, without any money to run it, while he took a whack of our business assessment to juice the Province's budget.
c) Thanks to Rob, and Harris before him. Pre-Amalgamation we we digging a subway, the Duffer then filled in, and we we funded and were building City-wide transit until Rob pulled the plug.

d) Apparently you found no D for dysfunctional item to list.

e) It's up to Council to decide what they discuss and what they rule out of order; that's functioning democracy. Cite the proportion of productive an unproductive hours if you like. In which slot do you put the time wasted on Rob and David Shiner's Plastic Bag Debate?
f) Nor has any police agency managed to stop any wrongdoing. But they like Toronto Council, have sanctioned the wrongdoers they've detected, that's typically how these things function.
g) has any government anywhere got a strategy to eliminate homelessness? Has Ford?
h) You're dead wrong about there being no strategy for developing the Waterfront. That strategic plan is actually extremely detailed and thoroughgoing. Find another.
i) Same problem in new words as a) above, what a tidy wrap-around:
• From your cited article - As Tory has continued former mayor Rob Ford’s tradition of demanding at-inflation residential property tax increases, council has continued to draw on a rainy-day reserve to balance the books.. Also noting the article once again states that "found efficiencies" cannot make up for a 10% shortfall in revenue. Raising revenue is the answer; the foremost dysfunctional fools who made TAX CUTS ONLY, NEVER RAISE TAXES their prime Article of Faith were both named Ford although they were far from alone.

I quite agree that, "It's too important to the entire province to allow Toronto to simply continue upon the trends it has been following." That's why I oppose having yet more of them imposed dictatorially, undemocratically and destructively by a man we at last got rid of, and who supposedly has better things to do for far greater number of people he was elected elected to serve. We neither need nor want his help. More of it will ruin Toronto.
Any particular reason council voted to not contract out the other half of garbage collection when the savings and functionality have already been proven successful with the half that Rob Ford contracted out?
Or is saving the city money not part of their mandate?
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
Sez you. I don't agree with your mis-characterization of the basis for the judge's decision. We shall see what the Appeal Court rules. Until then, SOP says he got it right.

Like the Ontario Legislature, the Conservative Party of Ontario or any institution you care to name, the City of Toronto could function better. However the claim here and the issue you're ducking is Ford's of repeated claim that Council is "dysfunctional". Mostly you ignored Council entirely and much of what you've listed has been up stuck on the agenda since the last Tory government bollixed up our City with its Kindergarten thinking:

a) Is the inevitable result of Rob's repeal of taxes already in place and refusal to raise new ones. Although Council approves budgets, taxes and such, they come from the Mayors.
b) Is the White Elephant Harris dumped on us, without any money to run it, while he took a whack of our business assessment to juice the Province's budget.
c) Thanks to Rob, and Harris before him. Pre-Amalgamation we we digging a subway, the Duffer then filled in, and we we funded and were building City-wide transit until Rob pulled the plug.

d) Apparently you found no D for dysfunctional item to list.

e) It's up to Council to decide what they discuss and what they rule out of order; that's functioning democracy. Cite the proportion of productive an unproductive hours if you like. In which slot do you put the time wasted on Rob and David Shiner's Plastic Bag Debate?
f) Nor has any police agency managed to stop any wrongdoing. But they like Toronto Council, have sanctioned the wrongdoers they've detected, that's typically how these things function.
g) has any government anywhere got a strategy to eliminate homelessness? Has Ford?
h) You're dead wrong about there being no strategy for developing the Waterfront. That strategic plan is actually extremely detailed and thoroughgoing. Find another.
i) Same problem in new words as a) above, what a tidy wrap-around:
• From your cited article - As Tory has continued former mayor Rob Ford’s tradition of demanding at-inflation residential property tax increases, council has continued to draw on a rainy-day reserve to balance the books.. Also noting the article once again states that "found efficiencies" cannot make up for a 10% shortfall in revenue. Raising revenue is the answer; the foremost dysfunctional fools who made TAX CUTS ONLY, NEVER RAISE TAXES their prime Article of Faith were both named Ford although they were far from alone.

I quite agree that, "It's too important to the entire province to allow Toronto to simply continue upon the trends it has been following." That's why I oppose having yet more of them imposed dictatorially, undemocratically and destructively by a man we at last got rid of, and who supposedly has better things to do for far greater number of people he was elected elected to serve. We neither need nor want his help. More of it will ruin Toronto.
Your response (unlike that of Anbarandy) acknowledges the problems, but puts the blame at the feet of particular mayors/councillors or the provincial government. If you are right, that the current council, and those to follow, have been saddled with insoluble problems beyond their capacity to fix, you're really making the case for direct administration of the city by the province, rather than a case for continued independent administration.

I think its worth trying a different governance model before coming to that conclusion.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,120
2,768
113
Any particular reason council voted to not contract out the other half of garbage collection when the savings and functionality have already been proven successful with the half that Rob Ford contracted out?
Or is saving the city money not part of their mandate?
Yes there was a very particular reason why outsourcing all of or parts of solid waste delivery service east of Yonge St. was not 'contracted out'.

That very particular reason was because in house was concluded and supported by the data, evidence and analysis to be more cost effective than private outsourcing.

That's why.
 
Last edited:

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Your response (unlike that of Anbarandy) acknowledges the problems, but puts the blame at the feet of particular mayors/councillors or the provincial government. If you are right, that the current council, and those to follow, have been saddled with insoluble problems beyond their capacity to fix, you're really making the case for direct administration of the city by the province, rather than a case for continued independent administration.

I think its worth trying a different governance model before coming to that conclusion.
A far better better governance model than arbitrarily cutting the available decision-making brain-power in half would be to pledge to let the City alone, and allow it the revenue tools it decides it needs to better balance its responsibilities and the available resources. Especially after previous Tory governments raided our business assessment to fund the Province so they could pretend they could postpone the need to raise income, we've lacked the funds to keep up.

We note Doug didn't offer to use his Provincial mandate to find those cost efficiencies he and Rob claimed would pay for everything. How d'ya s'pose half-as-many Councillors will now find what the Fords couldn't?
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,120
2,768
113
Your response (unlike that of Anbarandy) acknowledges the problems, but puts the blame at the feet of particular mayors/councillors or the provincial government. If you are right, that the current council, and those to follow, have been saddled with insoluble problems beyond their capacity to fix, you're really making the case for direct administration of the city by the province, rather than a case for continued independent administration.

I think its worth trying a different governance model before coming to that conclusion.
I provided what my time allowed to be provided in response to your unsubstantiated nonsense.

Searching the mythical Ford gravy train for efficiencies proved what anyone with a even an iota of reasonable thought already knew. And that was that there were nor are there any cost savings except a penny here or a penny there that amounted or would amount to anything of value. And even that penny here or there would effect a reduction in service that many would not continence.

50 cents in savings per taxpayer a year basically values Ford's ward plan as worthless. The majority of Torontonians having endured almost 4 years of the Ford Bros. mayhem have resoundingly stated, "Keep your goddam 50 cents and let us be".

Tax is a four letter word to those on the right of the political spectrum.

Yet you and he and they are the first and the loudest to complain that you want better but refuse to pay for the better.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts