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Ontario Basic Income Pilot: Good Riddance...

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
Then you should have voted for Wynne, as she was the only premier to report a surplus in Ontario for over 2 decades.
Not Drug Ford who will add to the debt with cheap beer, cheaper gas taxes and a host of lawsuits.

By the way larue, you posts show the total failure of your arguments.
I gave you examples of countries that have enacted the policies I back and are better for it.

The best you can come up with are insults, as your ideas have failed every single time a country has tried them.
You are the definition of insanity, expecting different results for the same actions.
You are suddenly worried about Ford driving up the debt? You mean anything more than the existing $400 billion that the Liberals created is unacceptable to you now?
A surplus with borrowed money and a monstrous world-leading debt is not a surplus.
But I guess someone like you thinks increasing their credit card limit without paying off the existing debt somehow makes you wealthier with more money you can spend right?
Right.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
You are suddenly worried about Ford driving up the debt? You mean anything more than the existing $400 billion that the Liberals created is unacceptable to you now?
A surplus with borrowed money and a monstrous world-leading debt is not a surplus.
But I guess someone like you thinks increasing their credit card limit without paying off the existing debt somehow makes you wealthier with more money you can spend right?
Right.
It is not a concern for Frankfooter, he truly believes that he has a claim on other peoples income / wealth
Property rights, ownership, the rewards from hard work, hustle and risk taking just not a relevant issues for commies when they decide someone else should pay for what they want
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
they use us they use the money to go back to school and find a better job
And for everyone of those there is one that makes a bee line to the liquor store the day the govt cheques are delivered

There is even more that just accept that this will be their income going forward & make no effort to change their lives

A guaranteed income will make them permanent dependants for the govt
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
they use us they use the money to go back to school and find a better job
haha you seriously believe that?
Why go back to school when you already have a steady guaranteed income to stay home and run your personal "business" like puppet show consultant or cat yoga instructor?

You mean to find a job so that you can work all day and be taxed to death to support other puppeteers perhaps? Nah...that's for suckers.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,760
17,578
113
It is not a concern for Frankfooter, he truly believes that he has a claim on other peoples income / wealth
Property rights, ownership, the rewards from hard work, hustle and risk taking just not a relevant issues for commies when they decide someone else should pay for what they want
If you spend it wisely you can increase the economy, as Portugal is showing.
Austerity, which you back, has failed every single time.

The proof?
You can't provide a single example where it worked.
As shown multiple times when I've challenged you.

Your ideas are failures, no wonder you're not rich.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,096
2,592
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
And for everyone of those there is one that makes a bee line to the liquor store the day the govt cheques are delivered

There is even more that just accept that this will be their income going forward & make no effort to change their lives

A guaranteed income will make them permanent dependants for the govt
show evidence of that happening
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
If you spend it wisely you can increase the economy, as Portugal is showing.
Spend it wisely?
Portugal has run an annual deficit for the past 10 years (probably more as the chart only goes back 10 years)
Portugal has a debt to GDP ration of 130%
60% is considered sustainable & prudent

To say they have spent wisely is just plain wrong

Austerity, which you back, has failed every single time.
Do not be stupid,
You can not spend your way out of a debt problem
Compound interest, limited GDP growth & continued deficits guarantee there will be a train wreck at some point. That is a mathematical fact

The proof?
You can't provide a single example where it worked.
As shown multiple times when I've challenged you.
What are you talking about ?
In the 1980s Canada was paying 25 cents of every tax dollar on interest payments but Paul Martin reigned in spending & used the GST to slay the Massive debt Trudeau Sr had foolish accumulated.
That argument has been present every time you foolishly try to promote increased spending as a solution to excessive debt

Your ideas are failures, no wonder you're not rich.
Your ideas (Commie) have caused generations to suffer hardship and poverty
You are going to see absolute Chaos & & possibly civil war in Venezuela as a result of brain dead socialism

Please do not concern yourself about my wealth
1. It is none of your business
2. It is not a relevant issue
3. You are wrong as usual

do you have to work hard to be wrong so often?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
show evidence of that happening
Go to the liquor store on the day the govt payments go out
However since you are one asking for $42B a year to roll this nightmare out, I would say you need to prove it does not happen
Why % of welfare recipients collect it on a on going basis?
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,096
2,592
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
Go to the liquor store on the day the govt payments go out
However since you are one asking for $42B a year to roll this nightmare out, I would say you need to prove it does not happen
Why % of welfare recipients collect it on a on going basis?


anecdotes and hearsay are not evidence. welfare recipients gets $600 a month you cannot live on that when rent is over $1000 a month
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,760
17,578
113
Portugal has run an annual deficit for the past 10 years (probably more as the chart only goes back 10 years)
Portugal has a debt to GDP ration of 130%
60% is considered sustainable & prudent

To say they have spent wisely is just plain wrong
Idiotic.

Portugal enacted IMF enforced austerity and were left with the high debt and deficits you list.
They are the direct results of the policies you back.

Recently they have rejected austerity and are spending money, and as such are now turning their economy around.

Portugal Dared to Cast Aside Austerity. It’s Having a Major Revival.
At a time of mounting uncertainty in Europe, the country has defied critics who insisted on austerity as the answer to the Continent’s economic and financial crisis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/business/portugal-economy-austerity.html

Its amazing how ill informed your opinions are, do you have to work to be so ignorant or is natural for you?
You should try reading the news and actually understanding what's going on before you make such incredibly stupid claims.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
anecdotes and hearsay are not evidence. welfare recipients gets $600 a month you cannot live on that when rent is over $1000 a month
Look, I have observed this on many occasions, it is sadly what it is.

While it likely pains you to think that many welfare recipients do not manage their money well & spend a lot of it on smokes, lotto tickets & booze, this is the reality
Despite the fact that 600 / month does not cover rent, poor people do not make sound money decisions and forward planning for them is measured in days , with a max about a week.


The bottom line facts on this issue are
1. You want to fix an unfixable problem with other peoples money.Eliminating poverty is a loonie left fantesy which does not account for human nature
2. it would cost $42 B to roll out so it had to die
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
yes you are

Portugal enacted IMF enforced austerity and were left with the high debt and deficits you list.
Do not be so god damn ridiculous
They go cap in hand to the IMF loaded with too much debt and too much gov spending, the IMF tells them they have to cut spending, they refuse to control spending & you say the debt and deficit are now the IMFs fault?

why not just blame the doctor for being overweight when he tells you to diet & told you to diet several years ago
We know you will shift balame when ever possible, but this is completely disengerious & it defies plain simple logic

This link shows a timeline of ever increasing Debt to GDP & hense debt for the past decade
https://tradingeconomics.com/portugal/government-debt-to-gdp
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?

They are the direct results of the policies you back.
God you are stupid
ongoing deficits and ever increasing debt CAN NOT be a direct result of cost cutting and decreased borrowing.
That is mathematically impossible

Recently they have rejected austerity and are spending money, and as such are now turning their economy around.
With ever increasing debt levels borrowed at unsustainably low interest rate levels
this is a trainwreck waiting to happen

But you ignore debt because it is inconvenient for you & illustrates the basic socialist flaws
1. The bill always comes due
2. Sooner or later socialists will run out of other peoples money



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/business/portugal-economy-austerity.html

Its amazing how ill informed your opinions are, do you have to work to be so ignorant or is natural for you?
You should try reading the news and actually understanding what's going on before you make such incredibly stupid claims.
Says the moron who thinks you can spend your way out of a debt problem

Look stupid , sound policy formation requires long term thinking
declaring Portugues problems as solved because they borrowed more to grow a little bit is just plain delusional as it has the outlook horizon of a quarter or two
the shit will hit the fan when they have to start paying non-zero-bound interest on their debt & that isn't too far off.

It is truly amazing ( and really sad) how a highschool drop out like your self can become so misinformed by your messed up ideology and willingness to ignore what is inconvieient
I can deal with the fact you will always be a misinformed moron, that is a given (and often a source of entertainment)
but I am concerned about your efforts to infect others with whatever is wrong with you

Now go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,760
17,578
113
This link shows a timeline of ever increasing debt for the past decade
https://tradingeconomics.com/portugal/government-debt-to-gdp
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?
Idiotic!

You're outdoing yourself larue in your incompetence.
You posted a chart that proves my claim, it shows that the debt increased during austerity and started to decline when they rejected it in 2015, as I claimed.

I think you need to listen to your own words.
God you are stupid
Here's the chart you posted that shows you are really fucking stupid.
https://tradingeconomics.com/portugal/government-debt-to-gdp
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
yes you are
You're outdoing yourself larue in your incompetence.
You posted a chart that proves my claim, it shows that the debt increased during austerity and started to decline when they rejected it in 2015, as I claimed.
You moron
The absolute debt keep on increasing , that chart was Debt to GDP ratio & leveled off marginally, as they borrowed to create some growth


I will need to dumb it down for you Since you are too stupid to take two facts & draw a logical conclusion:
(growing GDP & growing Debt to GDP ratio imply that debt is also growing. It is a three variable ratio equation with two of the variables known- Grade six level stuff)

This chart shows the debt load in Euros & it continuously moves up & to the right
https://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/portugal
BTW the debt is to paid in Euros & increased to 245,829 EUR Million as of 2017, an all time high

The only incompetence is you not understanding what you are talking about


The fact of the matter is the The debt has been steadily increasing since 1995
debt & the defects extend back decades & you want to continue spending & borrowing to fix the debt problem?
This is plain idiotic as it ignores the fact that persistent borrowing is unsustainable

Please explain how the debt is reduced when one borrows persistently
Show us how this a real plan which does not ignore debt out of convience
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?


Here's the chart you posted that shows you are really fucking stupid.
https://tradingeconomics.com/portugal/government-debt-to-gdp
government-debt-to-gdp, not government debt load
You were saying?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,760
17,578
113
The fact of the matter is the The debt has been steadily increasing since 1995
Idiotic!

Since turning away from austerity in 2015 Portugal has had its highest growth in decades and is on track to turn a surplus in 2020, according to the NYT article.
Under a policy of austerity Portugal ran incredibly high deficits and ran their debt up very high, something they are now fixing.
Of course they didn't stop the deficit on a dime assuming power, that's just idiotic.

Voters ushered Mr. Costa, a center-left leader, into power in late 2015 after he promised to reverse cuts to their income, which the previous government had approved to reduce Portugal’s high deficit under the terms of an international bailout of 78 billion euros, or $90 billion. Mr. Costa formed an unusual alliance with Communist and radical-left parties, which had been shut out of power since the end of Portugal’s dictatorship in 1974. They united with the goal of beating back some of the toughest aspects of austerity, while balancing the books to meet eurozone rules.

The government raised public sector salaries, the minimum wage and pensions and even restored the amount of vacation days to prebailout levels over objections from creditors like Germany and the International Monetary Fund. Incentives to stimulate business included development subsidies, tax credits and funding for small and midsize companies.

Mr. Costa made up for the givebacks with cuts in infrastructure and other spending, whittling the annual budget deficit to less than 1 percent of its gross domestic product, compared with 4.4 percent when he took office. The government is on track to achieve a surplus by 2020, a year ahead of schedule, ending a quarter-century of deficits.

European officials are now admitting that Portugal may have found a better response to the crisis. Recently, they rewarded Lisbon by elevating the country’s finance minister, Mário Centeno, who helped engineer the changes, to president of the Eurogroup, the influential collective of eurozone finance ministers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/business/portugal-economy-austerity.html

Again, Portugal shows that the policies you back are a failure.
Its easy for me to find examples, but we know you can't find a single example of austerity every succeeding, which is why the best you can do are grade 3 level insults.

Your chart shows that debt to gdb ratios are getting better in Portugal while they get worse in the US.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp

Note that even Canada is improving since we got rid of the conservative policies of Harper.
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/government-debt-to-gdp

Your policies fail.
Every time.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
yes you are

Since turning away from austerity in 2015 Portugal has had its highest growth in decades and is on track to turn a surplus in 2020, according to the NYT article.
That's nice. They also continued to borrow and continued to spend & continued to inflate theier debt
you seem to think that getting on budget for a year after 2 decades of continued debt expansion & deficts makes the problem go away
It does not
What is required is a string of surpluses & debt repayment

Under a policy of austerity Portugal ran incredibly high deficits and ran their debt up very high, something they are now fixing.
Thats is not austerity stupid, that is failed austerity


The goal is to reduce the debt to sustainable levels
Two decades of continues defects , they try to cut back but still borrow more year after year & then say fuck it , borrow & spend for growth, all the while increasing the debt
That is not austerity as they never got to balance , let alone pay off debt, before saying "I do not like this, lets spend"



Of course they didn't stop the deficit on a dime assuming power, that's just idiotic.
We shall see how close Dougie gets after a couple of years of cutting

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/business/portugal-economy-austerity.html

Again, Portugal shows that the policies you back are a failure.
How in the world can you say that ?
All portugal has accomplished is too accelerate forward the day when the shit hits the fan.
borrowing more to simulate an extra 1-2% GDP growth is idiotic when the interest paid on that borrowed money will cost 3-5%
Low single digit economic growth is more than offset by compounding interest & the debt continues to grow
Persistent borrowing just steepens the trajectory

Its easy for me to find examples, but we know you can't find a single example of austerity every succeeding, which is why the best you can do are grade 3 level insults.
For the tenth time Canada in 1980s was paying 25% of every tax dollar in interest. Paul martin cut government spending & used the GST to pay down that debt to a more sustainable level
How many times must you be told for this fact to sink in?

Your chart shows that debt to gdb ratios are getting better in Portugal while they get worse in the US.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp
Best you complain to Trump about that
He also foolish ignores debt
Nice company you keep

Note that even Canada is improving since we got rid of the conservative policies of Harper.
Dont be so stupid. The canadian economy is doing well because of unsustainably low interest rates and very strong growth in the USA (tax cuts)


Your policies fail.
Every time.
Free enterprise & small government has provided prosperity for North America over the long haul
Emulate Venezuela? I do not think so

Now answer these questions

Please explain how the debt is reduced when one borrows persistently
Show us how this a real plan which does not ignore debt out of convience
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?

you can not explain what you do not understand or ignore
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,760
17,578
113
The goal is to reduce the debt to sustainable levels
Yes, and Portugal is on track to do that, first they have to eliminate the structural deficit created by following the austerity policies you back.
They are on track to run a surplus by 2020, according to the NYT, and then can reduce the debt to sustainable levels.

Are you so daft that you don't understand basics of economics?

You are so stupid that the only example you can ever find that comes closest to being a success of your models, though it wasn't the 'austerity' you now back, was from the liberal party of Canada.
Yet you still only ever back the conservatives, who despite decades in power have never implemented your ideas successfully.
For the tenth time Canada in 1980s was paying 25% of every tax dollar in interest. Paul martin cut government spending & used the GST to pay down that debt to a more sustainable level
Why are you so stupid as to back the wrong choice to implement your ideals?
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,049
48
48
My issue with scraping the Basic Income is that it was done to those on disability. They are not sitting around lazy. They have no way to get a job while many on ODSP will tell they would like to work. There are many who do try to work as well. Claim their little income and do things the right way.

They need a little more help in my opinion. It is not right that those with a disability are purposely left in poverty.

The OW systems - don't change it to give basic income. I get that and I support that.

If you can work and can't pay your Hydro bill because your welly cheque is not enough. Tough titties.

But if you have to choose between food and heating your home, or even paying that rent for the home, and you can't go work because you are disabled {as defined by ODSP - which is a disablity lasting a more then a year and one that denies you the ablity to work. And is re-evaulated based on the disabilty and when/if it will be fixed.} then I think that is wrong and needs to be properly addressed.

I mean it was not until just a few years ago that a fund was set up so those with serious disabilities can pay into an RDSP {similar to an RRSP} so they can have more money then just OAS when they turn 65. These people don't have penisions, don't have CPP, don't have anything to fall back on. Thanks to the PC member Jim Flaherty, they have that.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...ans-can-fulfill-their-dreams/article18037166/
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,159
2,151
113
Yes, and Portugal is on track to do that, first they have to eliminate the structural deficit created by following the austerity policies you back.
A structural deficit is a result of excessive spending stupid, particularly ongoing permanent government hires
Impossible to eliminate if you spending to stimulate the economy

They are on track to run a surplus by 2020, according to the NYT, and then can reduce the debt to sustainable levels.
By borrowing to stimulate the economy ??
Not a chance in hell they get to 60% of GDP unless they dramatically cut spending
do you honestly think you can reverse 2 decades of persistent decits & half their accumulated debt by increased spending???
Ha Ha , what a fool

Are you so daft that you don't understand basics of economics?
Says the high school drop out who thinks you can spend you way out of debt problem


You are so stupid that the only example you can ever find that comes closest to being a success of your models, though it wasn't the 'austerity' you now back, was from the liberal party of Canada.
God dam right it was austerity. Martin cut costs

Yet you still only ever back the conservatives, who despite decades in power have never implemented your ideas successfully.
Mr. Harper controlled costs right up until the financial crisis . Than he applied stimulus when it was needed.
That is sound managment


Why are you so stupid as to back the wrong choice to implement your ideals?
Why are you so stupid that you can not recognise the current liberals & the NDP are incapable of controlling costs

Now answer these questions

Please explain how the debt is reduced when one borrows persistently
Show us how this a real plan which does not ignore debt out of convience
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?

you can not explain what you do not understand or ignore
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts