Saudi Arabia has a message for Canada
- Thread starter curr3n_c1000
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The US says - or said - those things pretty loudly and openly. So much for your attempt at fake news.
What's changed is that Prince Mohammed is throwing a major hissy fit and kicking his Lamborghini whenever any other country dares to criticize him, as of last week.
And "earning the political capital?!" WTF is that?! Do you have any idea how much the US is loathed in the Middle East?! Now that Prince M doesn't have to worry about Saddam Hossein and mean old Iraq anymore, why would he give a shit about the US? The US needs to buy his oil. Saudi can buy their expensive toy jets for their minute air force from Russia any time they want. Putin will be glad to sell to them. So much for US "earning the right"!
Prince Mohammed launches a bizarre fake news offensive against Canada on state-controlled SA media. And you guys are actually supporting SA against your own country???!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...aying-about-canada/ar-BBLVOOE?ocid=spartandhp
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...aying-about-canada/ar-BBLVOOE?ocid=spartandhp
Well we have imprisoned immigration cases and for sure there have been some horrific abuses. But we have NOT chopped the heads of non-violent dissidents like the Saudis have.
Massive political capital.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2017/05/saudi-relations-timeline-170518112421011.html
Isn't it time for the Trudeau government to privately admit their mistake, find a way to backtrack without completely losing face, and restore relations with SA? Sure, SA are a-holes, but Canada has yet to find a way to prosper in this world without ever having to deal with a-holes. Time for the Trudeau government to grow up.
But JT didn't make a mistake. He called SA on its bullshit, just like every other western country has been doing since time immemorial and like Canada has done previously. What happened this time is that Prince M decided he was going to change the rules and throw a hissy.
It's not appropriate for Canada to back down over this. Neither SA nor Canada has enough financially at stake to force a backdown - although things will probably normalize quietly in any event over the next few months. Canada has pretty major media support for its position around the world.
That's over a year out of date, before Prince Mohammed decided he was going to be the town asshole. Back then, he was buddies with everyone - even the US.
It's also a question of how much free military stuff SA can get out of the US in return for pretending publicly to like you guys.
Canada's support in the media means nothing to the Saudis, and as a result, about as little to me. That's the problem with this government. They don't even understand the rules of the game they are playing.
Canada's complaint wasn't a mistake, but their diplomacy was. SA's reaction was predictable enough. The Trudeau government screwed up, but they can't afford to sit around feeling self-righteous. That, I guarantee, will not lead to a resolution. We still need diplomatic and economic relations with the Saudis, and many other countries like them. It would not take that much imagination to find a way for both parties to save face and resume normal dealings.
Qatar accuses Saudi Arabia of blocking access to Hajj:
Travel agents in Qatar say a link for residents to register for the pilgrimage was blocked by Riyadh.
Qatar has accused Saudi Arabia of barring its nationals from performing this year's Hajj, a charge Saudi officials deny.
Around 1,200 Qatari citizens are allowed to attend the pilgrimage under a quota system, but Qatari officials say it has become impossible to register for the annual religious event.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...bia-blocking-access-hajj-180818082236829.html
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain and Egypt are trying to become the bullies in the Middle East.
This is a dangerous precedent as they are trying to cause a lot of unrest in the Middle East.
Travel agents in Qatar say a link for residents to register for the pilgrimage was blocked by Riyadh.
Qatar has accused Saudi Arabia of barring its nationals from performing this year's Hajj, a charge Saudi officials deny.
Around 1,200 Qatari citizens are allowed to attend the pilgrimage under a quota system, but Qatari officials say it has become impossible to register for the annual religious event.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...bia-blocking-access-hajj-180818082236829.html
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain and Egypt are trying to become the bullies in the Middle East.
This is a dangerous precedent as they are trying to cause a lot of unrest in the Middle East.
It doesn't surprise me that John Baird would support Saudi Barbarica. He's one of a cadre of very oily politicians from Ottawa - another is Dalton McGuinty. Isn't he working with Barrick Gold, they have a major lawsuit happening with Indonesia over habitat contamination in New Guinea. He has no concept of reality. Does he not realize that as a gay man, if he were living in the Stone Age Kingdom, he'd lose both his heads?
Saudi Barbarica wants to shut down Al-Jazeera and it may be working. They couldn't retain Serie A broadcasts and they are unable to get direct access to the US market. They have broadcast rights in Canada but abiding with Canadian content has proved challenging.
But they did manage to lure one Canadian star. CanWest couldn't retain Terri Leigh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohVYCI2eA-M
Saudi Barbarica wants to shut down Al-Jazeera and it may be working. They couldn't retain Serie A broadcasts and they are unable to get direct access to the US market. They have broadcast rights in Canada but abiding with Canadian content has proved challenging.
But they did manage to lure one Canadian star. CanWest couldn't retain Terri Leigh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohVYCI2eA-M
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Bin Salman is 34, spoiled, inexperienced and is leading the Kingdom at a time when they are still running huge deficits, and have had to cut back on social entitlements because of the decline in oil revenue. Even with the rise off the bottom, they are still running deficits and in a cash squeeze. The Saudi Aramco deal has been postponed and my money would say the odds of the IPO happening even in 2019 are less than even. So that money has been delayed too. People need to pay attention to what is going on INSIDE Saudi Arabia before making knee jerk comments about what our Govt did wrong. The Kingdom is in a cash squeeze and Bin Salman is on the hot seat.
It’s also not unreasonable to imagine that Bin Salman used back channels (maybe Jared or Don jr) to get tacit pre-approval to move on Canada so harshly (Bin Salman’s temper tantrum was days after the tweet). In fact, it’s harder to imagine that Bin Salman would move on a major US trading partner without clearance. It actually helps Trump (who is negotiating NAFTA in bad faith), so another problem for Canada is good for him. So there is a lot going on here. Even the tweet (a stupid way to conduct diplomacy) is nothing Canada hasn’t done before. So the reaction has been way overblown - which raises all the interesting questions. Eg: look at oil prices (they have declined the past few weeks). Why? Well there are demand concerns, BUT also Saudi has been pumping millions of barrels above their OPEC quota in response to a personal request from Trump - who wants to keep oil prices down ahead of the November mid-term elections (also why penalties for breaking Iranian oil sanctions don’t take effect until November even though Iranian sanctions take effect immediately).
It’s also not unreasonable to imagine that Bin Salman used back channels (maybe Jared or Don jr) to get tacit pre-approval to move on Canada so harshly (Bin Salman’s temper tantrum was days after the tweet). In fact, it’s harder to imagine that Bin Salman would move on a major US trading partner without clearance. It actually helps Trump (who is negotiating NAFTA in bad faith), so another problem for Canada is good for him. So there is a lot going on here. Even the tweet (a stupid way to conduct diplomacy) is nothing Canada hasn’t done before. So the reaction has been way overblown - which raises all the interesting questions. Eg: look at oil prices (they have declined the past few weeks). Why? Well there are demand concerns, BUT also Saudi has been pumping millions of barrels above their OPEC quota in response to a personal request from Trump - who wants to keep oil prices down ahead of the November mid-term elections (also why penalties for breaking Iranian oil sanctions don’t take effect until November even though Iranian sanctions take effect immediately).
We should not be supporting MBS lead Saudi Arabia at all.
Yemen - look into that war, Saudi attacks are horrific
Purges - MBS has been trying to take down the rest of the Saudi royal families and consolidating their money, turning it into a cleptocracy
Lebanon - don't forget MBS essentially kidnapping the president of Lebanon
Qatar - attacks on Al Jazeera that have turned into a blockade and even a US stopped threat of war (for which Trump fired Tillerson)
Human rights - the attacks on women's rights there are truly 18th century
Yemen - look into that war, Saudi attacks are horrific
Purges - MBS has been trying to take down the rest of the Saudi royal families and consolidating their money, turning it into a cleptocracy
Lebanon - don't forget MBS essentially kidnapping the president of Lebanon
Qatar - attacks on Al Jazeera that have turned into a blockade and even a US stopped threat of war (for which Trump fired Tillerson)
Human rights - the attacks on women's rights there are truly 18th century
Reading "The Terror Years" by Lawrence Wright, author of "The Looming Tower" (definitive popular history of the rise of AQ). Wright spends a chapter on SA called The Kingdom of Silence and deals quite a bit with SA reaction to the 2nd Gulf War and how deeply both the people in SA and the government loathe the US - when they're not getting military hardware on the cheap from the States.
Scandal about a week ago. Yemen school bombed by SA using - inevitably - US bombs.
MbS’s temper tantrum is a sign of weakness. It might play well inside the Kingdom (where he is walking a line between being the young “progressive” who gave women the right to drive and the old style thug who will shake down others for money and chop off heads and limbs to satisfy the religious fanatics). The cash crunch in SA is enough that they had already cut the funding for overseas studies by making program requirements tougher (they did this in 2016/2017). Govt freebies have been cut, unemployment is rising, and SA has not diversified their economy quickly enough to make a difference. Bin Salman has decreed that Saudi Aramco buy Sabic from PIF. Why? Because this transfer gives PIF much needed cash to invest in the economy (since the Aramco IPO is delayed).
Canada should just stand their ground. The tweet was a dumb way to conduct diplomacy, but the message was fine. Let Bin Salman stamp his feet and hold his breath - he is actually hurting his own subjects more than he is punishing Canada.
Canada should just stand their ground. The tweet was a dumb way to conduct diplomacy, but the message was fine. Let Bin Salman stamp his feet and hold his breath - he is actually hurting his own subjects more than he is punishing Canada.
https://www.hrw.org/the-day-in-human-rights/2018/08/22
More death penalties for peaceful civil rights activists in Saudi Arabia. Let's have a round of applause for Prince Mohammed and Andrew Scheer!!!
More death penalties for peaceful civil rights activists in Saudi Arabia. Let's have a round of applause for Prince Mohammed and Andrew Scheer!!!
