Toronto Escorts

What would it look like if Canada decriminalized all the drugs?

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have now united in their call for Ottawa to decriminalize all hard drugs. They join a growing chorus of activists and health agencies, including the Canadian Public Health Association.
Among this pro-decriminalization camp, there is one word that is mentioned constantly: Portugal, the country that pioneered across-the-board drug decriminalization in 2001.
So what does life look like in Portugal, the new poster boy for global drug reform? Below, a quick guide to what decriminalization has done for Portugal, and what it hasn’t.

The Portuguese black market remains, drug traffickers are still jailed
Portugal has not legalized drugs. Far from it. In fact, selling marijuana, a soon-to-be-legal activity in Canada, can still result in a lengthy term in a Portuguese jail. When the country decriminalized drug possession in 2001, it only did so for drugs intended for “individual consumption.” Anyone caught with more than a 10 days’ supply of drugs is still regarded as a trafficker and criminally prosecuted. In 2010, roughly one fifth of the country’s prison population was put there by a trafficking conviction. Portugal also has a blanket ban on the cultivation of drugs, even if it’s merely a personal cannabis plant. “A drug consumer must necessarily rely on the illicit market to obtain drugs,” noted a 2015 report in the journal Law & Social Inquiry. The country has also lagged considerably behind much of the western world in approving medical marijuana. It was only two months ago, in fact, that Portugal passed its first-ever bill authorizing cannabis for medical use.
A patient is handed his daily dose of 85 milligrams of methadone by male nurse Joao Matos from a van parked near Praca Espanha on October 04, 2017 in Lisbon, Portugal.
Drug use did not skyrocket after decriminalization
This is easily the Portuguese fact most cited by drug reform advocates: Despite fears that decriminalization would enshrine Portugal as a needle-strewn haven for drug tourism, this worst case scenario has not come to pass. In fact, recorded drug use has gone down in certain key categories, including among young people and injection drug users. “There is essentially no relationship between the punitiveness of a country’s drug laws and its rates of drug use,” wrote the drug reform think tank Transform in an analysis of Portuguese drug use data. Another pre-reform charge was that decriminalization would cause drug prices to drop and consumption to increase. Nevertheless, a recent Portuguese analysis concluded that, if anything, drug prices had gone up following the 2001 reform. “This failure of prices to decrease may be explained by the boost in resources available to fight drug trafficking,” it wrote.
Portuguese addicts still face strict legal sanctions
In Canada, most forms of motor vehicle violations are technically decriminalized. Speeding or running a stop sign will get you in trouble with the law, but it usually won’t get you arrested or jailed. Drug use is treated much the same in Portugal. If a police officer catches someone shooting heroin, that drug user is given 72 hours to appear before something known as the “Commission for Dissuasion of Drug Addicts.” Consisting of two medical professionals and one person with a legal background, this commission then interrogates the drug user to determine the extent of their addiction and to recommend treatment. The committee can even impose penalties, such as fines, community service, denial of public benefits or even orders to avoid certain people and places. Meanwhile, Portuguese police are still authorized to seize drugs, and even to detain addicts to ensure their appearance before a dissuasion committee.
Deaths and infection rates are down
Portugal hasn’t done a stellar job of keeping statistics on overdose deaths, particularly in the years prior to 2001. Nevertheless, experts are generally in agreement that their drug policy has kept more people alive and prevented many others from getting bloodborne infections such as HIV. In 2001, 80 people died in Portugal from what physicians determined to be a drug-related death. By 2012, that number was down to 16. New HIV cases recorded among injection drug users are also way down, from 1,016 in 2001 to 56 in 2012. With fewer drug users in jail, there has also been a measurable reduction in pressure on the Portuguese justice system. To be sure, Portugal’s rate of “problem drug users” (essentially; heroin, cocaine and meth addicts) is still about average for Europe, but it’s shown modest declines from where it was.
Volunteers prepare for the opening of the safe injection site at Moss Park, on Wednesday November 15, 2017.
Even Portugal doesn’t know how much to credit decriminalization

“I have no magical insight for it,” Portuguese drug reform czar João Goulão said in 2017 when asked about Canada’s fentanyl crisis. Portuguese officials have been pretty consistent in claiming that while decriminalization has been good for them, it won’t “solve every problem.” The country has a much better handle on drug addiction than it did in 2001, but it’s impossible to tell how much is specifically because of decriminalization. The country’s rate of new HIV cases were already trending downwards before 2001, and, most notably, decriminalization coincided with a massive increase in accessible drug treatment. A detailed 2012 analysis in the journal Harm Reduction Digest argued that it was “more plausible” that Portuguese drug deaths had gone down thanks to improved treatment options rather than decriminalization. That same report also strongly pooh-poohed Portugal’s newfound status as a role model for international drug reform, with authors arguing that many foreign boosters of decriminalization had “clear misconceptions about the reform.” Often portrayed as a place that has “solved” its drug problem, the paper instead argued that “Portugal is performing—longitudinally—similarly or slightly better than most European countries.”
Decriminalization has not been a silver bullet
In 2010, the White House of Barack Obama firmly rejected the idea that Portugal could serve as a model for U.S. drug reform. “More data are required before drawing any firm conclusions, and ultimately these conclusions may only apply to Portugal and its unique circumstances, such as its history of disproportionately high rates of heroin use,” wrote a White House statement in 2010. Global perceptions about Portuguese drug policy have often been warped by biased reports on its effectiveness. One of the most cited reports on the Portuguese drug experiment, a 2009 paper by the libertarian Cato Institute, contends that Portuguese drug policy has been a “resounding success” on “virtually every metric.” A subsequent report by the group Association for a Drug Free Portugal, meanwhile, claimed decriminalization was a “disastrous failure” that had spiked drug use. In 2010, a study in the British Journal of Criminology assessed all the Portuguese data they could find in an attempt to strike a middle ground. Their conclusion? Decriminalization won’t “automatically” increase drug-related harm, it doesn’t eliminate all drug problems but it’s probably a good idea. “It may offer a model for other nations that wish to provide less punitive, more integrated and effective responses to drug use,” concluded the authors.
In some parts of Canada, de facto decriminalization is already here
Portugal remains the only country that has explicitly decriminalized drug use. They even called their 2001 law the “Decriminalization of Drug Use Act.” But plenty of other countries have taken steps in that direction, such as Mexico’s decriminalization of cannabis and cocaine for personal use. In Canada, the Criminal Code still makes hard drug possession a crime. Still, select police forces have been able to back off on who they decide to charge with possession. This is most notably the case in Vancouver, the epicenter of Canada’s current overdose crisis. The Vancouver Police have explicitly endorsed a “public health” approach to addiction and rarely if ever pursue possession charges against drug addicts, unless the charge is in connection with a more serious offence. To quote João Goulão once more, he has said that the biggest effect of Portuguese decriminalization was to “allow the stigma of drug addiction to fall.” Portugal was still recovering from five decades of fascism at the time their 2001 decriminalization law was passed. The reform brought addicts out of the shadows and allowed them to seek treatment “without fear,” Goulão told the British Medical Journal. But in places where drug use is already destigmatized, the immediate benefits of decriminalization may be blunted.



• Twitter: TristinHopper | Email: thopper@nationalpost.com

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...ized-all-the-drugs/ar-BBLpVmF?ocid=spartandhp
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,222
1,618
113
Ghawar
Thankfully we did not criminalize cigarettes and alcohol or
there would have been more people killed by lung cancer and
impaired driving.

Looking forward to the day when we will have free access
to cocaine, heroin and zolpidem at low cost.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,405
113
I've watched this. And making it a medical issue like other substance abusers makes sense.

But with that I think the trafficking laws need a big toughening up. Do you agree with that Oagre?
 

IRIS

Supporting Member
Feb 18, 2010
5,209
270
83
iris4men.escortbook.com
What would it look like if Canada decriminalized all the drugs?

More brain dead zombies on the street (we have enough already, just look around in the liberal party) and the Canadian government will become the biggest drug dealer in the history.

 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
I've watched this. And making it a medical issue like other substance abusers makes sense.

But with that I think the trafficking laws need a big toughening up. Do you agree with that Oagre?

I was thinking of going totally the other direction and having the government sell limited and controlled quantities of the drugs in return for purchasers registering and making themselves available for non optional medical examination and treatment to control addiction issues, if they overuse and become dependent.

One of the side benefits of decriminalization should be relieving the burden on the criminal law system and destroying the financial incentive to join and form gangs. You take away drug trafficking and 90% of criminal gangs suddenly lose their main - or only - source of $.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
What would it look like if Canada decriminalized all the drugs?

More brain dead zombies on the street (we have enough already, just look around in the liberal party) and the Canadian government will become the biggest drug dealer in the history.

Iris, I really need to put you on the ignore list.

Where did you go wrong? There must have been a fork in the road somewhere?
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,773
3
0
Still, select police forces have been able to back off on who they decide to charge with possession. This is most notably the case in Vancouver, the epicenter of Canada’s current overdose crisis. The Vancouver Police have explicitly endorsed a “public health” approach to addiction and rarely if ever pursue possession charges against drug addicts, unless the charge is in connection with a more serious offence.
Isn't there a certain oximoronic quality to the above?
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
9,258
7,200
113
What would it look like if Canada decriminalized all the drugs?

More brain dead zombies on the street (we have enough already, just look around in the liberal party) and the Canadian government will become the biggest drug dealer in the history.

I think this is the first time I agree with anything you have said.
 

thailover

New member
Jan 4, 2012
1,882
6
0
I agree with iris on this one
Oagre—-every left mainstream media stance,you agree with and like a typical whiny lefty,if someone has a different opinion they are a fascist and need to be ignored.
How in the world is heroin/needles on the street,cocaine and fetanyl good for a clean,safe society?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,405
113

I was thinking of going totally the other direction and having the government sell limited and controlled quantities of the drugs in return for purchasers registering and making themselves available for non optional medical examination and treatment to control addiction issues, if they overuse and become dependent.

One of the side benefits of decriminalization should be relieving the burden on the criminal law system and destroying the financial incentive to join and form gangs. You take away drug trafficking and 90% of criminal gangs suddenly lose their main - or only - source of $.
But would you increase the penalties to dealers who still won't give it up? Would still sell to those we know would rather not deal with the govt?
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
Given that this is frequently cited as a major benefit of decriminalization, this should give pause.

With the Portuguese system, it's inevitable. All Portugal does is to remove criminal code sanctions for users caught with small amounts of the drug. As the article points out, this appears to be the policy in any event in Vancouver, where the Criminal Code simply isn't enforced.

As Portugal doesn't decriminalize or "control" trafficking, this remains illegal.

The logical inconsistency remains that using is dependent on trafficking. While it is legally less disadvantageous to users to remove criminality for mere possession, it still doesn't deal with the overall drug situation. It's a very partial solution.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
But would you increase the penalties to dealers who still won't give it up? Would still sell to those we know would rather not deal with the govt?

Penalties would have to remain in force for non government dealers. I am not sure what the benefit to increasing them would be. Could you explain your PoV?
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
I agree with iris on this one
Oagre—-every left mainstream media stance,you agree with and like a typical whiny lefty,if someone has a different opinion they are a fascist and need to be ignored.
How in the world is heroin/needles on the street,cocaine and fetanyl good for a clean,safe society?

Well, my suggestion - thrown out for debate - would remove needles from the street.

But more substantially, there are "problems" in society which are not going away. Drug use is one of them. Prostitution is another. There are always going to be prostitutes and customers. There are always going to be drug users and addicts. Before the current street drugs were "discovered" in the 60's and 70's, addicts were alcoholics. I don't think being an alcoholic is great. I don't think being a drug addict is great either.

You can't control this type of problem simply with punishment. It doesn't work. The "War on Drugs" is failing. It's never going to succeed. You can't simply say "I don't like something. Put people in jail." and bingo! the problem goes away. Do you think it's any harder to be a heroin addict or meth addict today than it was 20 years ago?..... I don't think it is. Any adult who wants drugs bad enough, finds them and uses them. The criminal sanction is of limited or no effect.

So what is the cost: benefit to criminalizing drug use? Well, the costs are pretty high. A massive amount of jail space, police budget and justice system resources are utilized in policing drug crime. This has a major impact on your taxes.

Criminal gangs thrive on the illicit drug trade. It's the major reason those gangs exist. Those gangs are growing, becoming more violent and becoming bolder all the time. Jail them??... We do. For every dealer who goes to jail, another one pops up. It's easy money. And people think about the short term benefit of getting a pile of cash, not going to jail or getting murdered by a rival.

People steal and rob to get money to feed their drug habits. Secondary drug crime is a major component of street crime.

So there is a benefit to decriminalizing drugs. What is the benefit of criminalizing them?

Well, it shows that society disapproves of drug use. That's good when it comes to seriously addictive "stereotypical addict" drugs like heroin or crystal meth. I don't approve of heroin addiction. Neither do you. But do we really want to jail 20 year old girls who have a fentanyl addiction? Sure, they're stupid. They should have known better. I don't want to put them in jail though. I want them to stop using. And that means rehab, not jail time. And "society's disapproval" never stopped any hardcore drug user from using. Probably quite the contrary.

Do you want to criminalize a clique of university students who take molly or X and go to a rave? I don't. What's the point?

Does criminalization stop people finding and using drugs?? You would think so. Maybe not much of an impediment. In the big city, curious people find drugs. But in small towns, maybe not. But the study in Portugal implies it doesn't. If Portugal decriminalized, surely the rate of drug use and drug addiction goes sky high? Apparently, it doesn't, according to the studies. Which suggests that almost everybody who wants to use drugs uses them, whether they are criminalized or not.

So there's the case for controlled decriminalization. It's not a "lefty whine". It's a cost : benefit analysis.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,405
113

Penalties would have to remain in force for non government dealers. I am not sure what the benefit to increasing them would be. Could you explain your PoV?
The Portugal model includes stuff penalties for dealers. I would want mandatory sentences. And stuff ones. No first offense byes.

And teach this in the schools so people know what awaits them.

The point is continued deterrence. And to make dealing not worth it while decriminalizing usage with therapy.
 

Mable

Active member
Sep 20, 2004
1,379
11
38
I do not want to criminalize this behavior either, and I tend to think that the drugs should be legal, drugs of any type. But I do have a problem with having the dollars sucked out of my pocket by the government to take care of those people who exercise such choices. By all means, exercise your choice and do the drugs, but assume personal responsibility for it.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,905
68,405
113
I do not want to criminalize this behavior either, and I tend to think that the drugs should be legal, drugs of any type. But I do have a problem with having the dollars sucked out of my pocket by the government to take care of those people who exercise such choices. By all means, exercise your choice and do the drugs, but assume personal responsibility for it.
But the present system includes public funded detoxes and rehabs. Would anything really change?
 

Mable

Active member
Sep 20, 2004
1,379
11
38
I guess what I am saying is get rid of the public money in the system; do your drugs, by all means; alcohol, tobacco whatever. Just stop making society pay for your behavior. We live in an age where almost no one can claim ignorance regarding the potential or likely fallout. Accept responsibility and pay your own way. Will anything change, you ask? I do not know, but it would provide for an interesting new starting point and status quo. And who knows, some people might actually learn something.
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
9,258
7,200
113

It's spelled "Bazooka", not Bazoka.
The correct spelling was taken when I signed up on another website so I dropped an "o" and used it for here and other sites. Don't be so anal because people don't agree with everything you say or think.
 
Toronto Escorts