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Ford to slash Toronto city council to 25 councillors from 47, sources say

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,410
113
You support gerrymandering?
Or......it was gerrymandering toward increasing the downtown contingent. Or do you think the present provincial/federal riding breakdown is unfair? Gerrymandered?

I thought the ward breakdown was. And the unofficial NDP party caucus dominated for years until the other council members figured things out.

It will be a fair breakdown with centrist policies.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,088
2,733
113
Or......it was gerrymandering toward increasing the downtown contingent. Or do you think the present provincial/federal riding breakdown is unfair? Gerrymandered?

I thought the ward breakdown was. And the unofficial NDP party caucus dominated for years until the other council members figured things out.

It will be a fair breakdown with centrist policies.
The federal ridings were reset based upon the population totals of the year 2000.

The formerly reset 47 ridings for Toronto were based upon population totals of the year 2016 I believe.

Between those 2 years there has been dramatic increases in population in the downtown ridings, so much so that 2 new ridings were added to reflect equal riding population representation, which was the agreed upon solution till the gerrymandering premier came along.

Obviously you do not believe in equal representation.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
The federal ridings were reset based upon the population totals of the year 2000.

The formerly reset 47 ridings for Toronto were based upon population totals of the year 2016 I believe.

Between those 2 years there has been dramatic increases in population in the downtown ridings, so much so that 2 new ridings were added to reflect equal riding population representation, which was the agreed upon solution till the gerrymandering premier came along.

Obviously you do not believe in equal representation.
From the Elections Canada website: Redistribution of Federal Electoral Districts

The Constitution of Canada requires that federal electoral districts be reviewed after each decennial (10-year) census to reflect changes and movements in Canada's population. The federal redistribution process began in February 2012. A representation order describing and naming Canada's future electoral districts was completed in October 2013. The new electoral districts will be applied in the first general election called after May 1, 2014.

The process was led by independent commissions working separately in each province to establish electoral boundaries. Visit www.federal-redistribution.ca to view the new boundaries and the commissions' reports, or consult the maps of the 338 new electoral districts. Note that commissions were not required for Nunavut, the Northwest Territories and Yukon since each territory is a single electoral district.


Unlike the City of Toronto which is relatively densely populated even in in the sparsest suburbs, Canada has enormous variations, that Elections Canada must cope with when assigning riding boundaries. Equal representation is way down their priority list. PEI has four ridings, each in the 30,000 range No territory has a population as large as a typical Toronto riding but they all get a MP.

The PC majority that rammed the reduced Toronto Council into law was elected by rural Ontarians, everyone of them in smaller ridings, better represented than the ones forced on us. Cities auntries are different, and need differnet governing mechanisms. Even DoFo knows taht; it's why he didn't 'solve' the problem of dysfunctional municipal government across the province. He just revenged himself on Toronto, for treating him and his brother with the respect they earned.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,088
2,733
113
From a taxation perspective I will take my chances with the new PC government vs the previous Liberal government.

Don't forget that Doug is a life long resident of Toronto and has been a strong supporter of Toronto his entire life. Aside from settling a couple of old scores with some local politicians, Doug will continue to fight for what is in the best interests for the city.

I actually see the city of Toronto standing to gain a lot more under his watch than what previous provincial leaders were able to offer. His recent announcements to combat gangs, guns and drugs via increased police and court controls are an instant win for the city - These are things that should have been in place years ago.

Get past the man and focus on the policies.
Doug is from Etobicoke, grew up in an insulated inner suburban enclave of rich white folks. He inherited his daddy's business and sold drugs in a ravine as a teen and early aged adult. His connection to the City of Toronto is that Etobicoke was amalgamated within the City of Toronto. His support for the city of Toronto is evidenced by his abject failure in his time as a inner suburban councillor and his disdain for all things Toronto foreign to his insulated inner suburban mentality.

His recent announcement to basically reconstitute TAVIS without addressing the other issues that lead to gangs, guns and drugs is akin to putting a finger in one of the many holes in a dam.

$8millon for a 'rapid response' team of floating prosecutors to oppose bail is a waste of money since ALL prosecutors already have standing orders and directives to oppose bail for gun charges.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,410
113
The federal ridings were reset based upon the population totals of the year 2000.

The formerly reset 47 ridings for Toronto were based upon population totals of the year 2016 I believe.

Between those 2 years there has been dramatic increases in population in the downtown ridings, so much so that 2 new ridings were added to reflect equal riding population representation, which was the agreed upon solution till the gerrymandering premier came along.

Obviously you do not believe in equal representation.
Obviously by OJ' s post and research you don't believe in representing facts.

What's good enough for Elections Canada apparently isn't good enough for you.

Sounds like you want gerrymandering to me.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,088
2,733
113
Obviously by OJ' s post and research you don't believe in representing facts.

What's good enough for Elections Canada apparently isn't good enough for you.

Sounds like you want gerrymandering to me.
Check this out: https://seanmarshall.ca/2018/08/01/...oronto-wards-is-an-attack-on-local-democracy/

The Elections Canada ridings are based upon census data for 2011.

In the intervening years till now the downtown, Toronto Centre, Etobicoke-Lakeshore, Willowdale ridings/wards have seen a population explosion that is still continuing.

The formerly agreed upon 47 ward plan best represented equal representation across all wards.

The Ford edict which you support quashes equal representation and represents gerrymandering.

Do you have a problem with equal representation?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,410
113
Check this out: https://seanmarshall.ca/2018/08/01/...oronto-wards-is-an-attack-on-local-democracy/

The Elections Canada ridings are based upon census data for 2011.

In the intervening years till now the downtown, Toronto Centre, Etobicoke-Lakeshore, Willowdale ridings/wards have seen a population explosion that is still continuing.

The formerly agreed upon 47 ward plan best represented equal representation across all wards.

The Ford edict which you support quashes equal representation and represents gerrymandering.

Do you have a problem with equal representation?
Those are not facts. They are projections of population 8+ years Down the road.

I will take the Elections Canada stats with a long history of fairness over the one time study of a consultant tasked with coming up with a reason to increase the wards.

That article was about as partisan as it gets. Starting with the title and then cherry picking facts and projections.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,088
2,733
113
Those are not facts. They are projections of population 8+ years Down the road.

I will take the Elections Canada stats with a long history of fairness over the one time study of a consultant tasked with coming up with a reason to increase the wards.

That article was about as partisan as it gets. Starting with the title and then cherry picking facts and projections.
I guess u of all people who knows Toronto so well has never been to the ridings and wards listed in my post to witness first hand the immense scope and scale of the vertical towers that have spring up since 2011 till now that house all these residents whose votes will now only count as 2/3rds to half of other wards.

C'mon Butler, you are so disingenuous as to not be believable.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,410
113
I guess u of all people who knows Toronto so well has never been to the ridings and wards listed in my post to witness first hand the immense scope and scale of the vertical towers that have spring up since 2011 till now that house all these residents whose votes will now only count as 2/3rds to half of other wards.

C'mon Butler, you are so disingenuous as to not be believable.
I live in one of those high density ridings. And witness first hand daily the scope on my streetcar ride to work every day.

Once these build ups settle in the developers will start in other areas and it will even out. Or in the next election cycle the wards will expand as the ridings do.

Do you think Elections Canada is unfair? Before you go further you need to clarify that simple question?

Again, is Elections Canada wrong in their riding boundaries for democracy?
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,088
2,733
113
I live in one of those high density ridings. And witness first hand daily the scope on my streetcar ride to work every day.

Once these build ups settle in the developers will start in other areas and it will even out. Or in the next election cycle the wards will expand as the ridings do.

Do you think Elections Canada is unfair? Before you go further you need to clarify that simple question?

Again, is Elections Canada wrong in their riding boundaries for democracy?
Congratulations, your vote if you do actually vote is now worth 2/3rds to 1/2 of the votes of those out in Scarborough, Etobicoke centre and north and most parts of North York.

Zoning in the vast majority of the inner suburbs does not include high rise residential so unless there is a large hue and cry from the citizens in these single residential zoned inner suburban areas for dense high rise residencies, the population in these area will be mostly stagnant.

Elections Canada based their FEDERAL ridings on 2011 data, which for the previously mentioned ridings is now vastly underrepresented.

Toronto City Council's decision to go to a 47 ward electoral model was based upon updated census data which truly reflected equal representation across all wards.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,410
113
Congratulations, your vote if you do actually vote is now worth 2/3rds to 1/2 of the votes of those out in Scarborough, Etobicoke centre and north and most parts of North York.

Zoning in the vast majority of the inner suburbs does not include high rise residential so unless there is a large hue and cry from the citizens in these single residential zoned inner suburban areas for dense high rise residencies, the population in these area will be mostly stagnant.

Elections Canada based their FEDERAL ridings on 2011 data, which for the previously mentioned ridings is now vastly underrepresented.

Toronto City Council's decision to go to a 47 ward electoral model was based upon updated census data which truly reflected equal representation across all wards.
And it's worth alot less compared to ridings on PEI.

So what. Would you reduce the Island to 1 riding? Or create another 800 nationwide to compensate?

It's never going to exact. There will always be done with more or less. I consider the parameters to be within acceptable levels.

Anyway this is going through. So either accept it or feel free to find another municipality that better reflects your democratic standard.

The one mandated by Elections Canada is fine by me.
 

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
5,058
1,003
113
web.archive.org
Doug is from Etobicoke, grew up in an insulated inner suburban enclave of rich white folks. He inherited his daddy's business and sold drugs in a ravine as a teen and early aged adult.
The sooner you swallow this bitter baggage you have been carrying for the last few years the easier it will be for you to recognize that this new government is actually putting much more focus on the safety and well being of the entire city than the previous provincial government.

So far the only downsizing has been the reduction in municipal council members. He has stepped up the fight against gangs and guns in Toronto and ended the York University strike. Both of these are huge wins for the taxpayers of the city.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,088
2,733
113
"Respect for the taxpayer", now where have we heard that before?

If your memory serves you correctly, you will understand how 'all of that" sloganeering bullshit ended up costing taxpayers and inevitably ended blowing up in their faces.

Same shit, different blowhard brother.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Those are not facts. They are projections of population 8+ years Down the road.

I will take the Elections Canada stats with a long history of fairness over the one time study of a consultant tasked with coming up with a reason to increase the wards.

That article was about as partisan as it gets. Starting with the title and then cherry picking facts and projections.
You're missing the point about government representing the people it serves. The 35,000,000 of us from sea to sea to sea, can be decently, if not ideally, represented on the big national stuff by those widely varied riding sizes adjusted only every ten years, since we only have an national election only every five years.

The City serves us —or fails to serve us — on a much more fine-grained level with Mayor's in charge of every individual pothole filling. As DoFo assures us. And those fine grained differences can change drastically over just few weeks when a couple of new condo towers open occupancy and fill up with ten thousand new citizens for that ward. All pooping; all flushing. Suddenly the 1840's brick-built sewers that adequately handled the few old warehouses where no one lived or voted become a problem. But the Councillors from North York pushed the sewers down the TDL so their cheap-ass water pipes from pre-amalgamation days could get fixed first. And thanks to DoFO it could be as long as a decade before those ten thousand new residents get fair representation at City Hall.

Cities need more involved decision-making more often, and conditions change locally more frequently than nationwide, affecting more individuals more directly. That's why we have civic elections more frequently, and until this latest ham-fisted stupidity, it's why we have smaller electoral districts with local boundaries that reflect representation we need in Toronto, not in the Nation's Capital.
 

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
5,058
1,003
113
web.archive.org
You're missing the point about government representing the people it serves. The 35,000,000 of us from sea to sea to sea, can be decently, if not ideally, represented on the big national stuff by those widely varied riding sizes adjusted only every ten years, since we only have an national election only every five years.

The City serves us —or fails to serve us — on a much more fine-grained level with Mayor's in charge of every individual pothole filling. As DoFo assures us. And those fine grained differences can change drastically over just few weeks when a couple of new condo towers open occupancy and fill up with ten thousand new citizens for that ward. All pooping; all flushing. Suddenly the 1840's brick-built sewers that adequately handled the few old warehouses where no one lived or voted become a problem. But the Councillors from North York pushed the sewers down the TDL so their cheap-ass water pipes from pre-amalgamation days could get fixed first. And thanks to DoFO it could be as long as a decade before those ten thousand new residents get fair representation at City Hall.

Cities need more involved decision-making more often, and conditions change locally more frequently than nationwide, affecting more individuals more directly. That's why we have civic elections more frequently, and until this latest ham-fisted stupidity, it's why we have smaller electoral districts with local boundaries that reflect representation we need in Toronto, not in the Nation's Capital.
Are you saying that prior to amalgamation there were little to no residents living in downtown Toronto? I was living there at that time and there were a lot of residents, apartment buildings, condos and office towers. I am sure that there was enough people in the downtown area to have justified at that time a proper sewer system.

Too bad that some of those good old councilors who scored millions from developers to use for their slush funds did not divert that to maintaining the infrastructure.

I think you are being a little too dramatic and over the top in your assessment of the future of governing the city.
 

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
5,058
1,003
113
web.archive.org
"Respect for the taxpayer", now where have we heard that before?

If your memory serves you correctly, you will understand how 'all of that" sloganeering bullshit ended up costing taxpayers and inevitably ended blowing up in their faces.

Same shit, different blowhard brother.
All politicians are full of shit and I am more than happy to admit that. I would be the first to admit that I was not pleased that Ford won the leadership of the PC party, however I was completely disappointed with the previous government and knew that change was needed. Fortunately Ford is surrounded by a team that he needs to work with and will support one another as opposed to the structure of the city where it was constantly divided (no matter who the mayor was).

Bottom line is that Ford is the front man for the PC party and they will rule the roost for the next few years. Bitching about what happened when he was a teenager or when he was a city Councillor is fruitless in my opinion, but then again, we all need to have a hobby right?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
6,289
113
Buck a beer costs nothing. ....
That's my point. He's spending political capital on things that do nothing just like the Scarborough subway stop.

I'd also prioritize a DRL before the Vaughn extension but you might notice that it isn't mentioned in discussions of Ford's political career because it had nothing to do with it (and it's projected ridership is much higher than the 1 stop to nowhere line).
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
6,289
113
I agree that there was a certain amount of vindictiveness on behalf of Ford (in his mind council fucked his brother and perhaps he is settling some old scores), but I also think that the entire decision was not based on that.
I could get that argument but he hasn't reduced council sizes elsewhere in the province.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,711
3,410
113
That's my point. He's spending political capital on things that do nothing just like the Scarborough subway stop.

I'd also prioritize a DRL before the Vaughn extension but you might notice that it isn't mentioned in discussions of Ford's political career because it had nothing to do with it (and it's projected ridership is much higher than the 1 stop to nowhere line).
I think the projections are wrong. Ever see the traffic volume at Kennedy Station? The volume of busses?

It's huge. And that was a long time ago I traveled via that station.

Anyway he didn't expend political capital. It's was a minor issue he chose to resolve.

Let's see what he does about transit funding. I would have preferred Elliot but no point bitching yet.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts