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'Hate is alive here': Wife of beaten Mississauga man speaks out after attack

bver_hunter

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It was supposed to be a peaceful summer evening outdoors with friends, but things took a frightening turn when a Mississauga, Ont., father of two was severely beaten in what Peel Regional Police confirm they are investigating as a hate-motivated crime.

Mohammed Abu Marzouk, 39, was just about to head home from a picnic he was attending with his family near the Mississauga Valley Community Centre on Sunday night when two men passing on foot behind his car started shouting at the family, "f--king Arab people! Terrorists," his wife, Diana Attar, said in an exclusive interview with CBC News.

2 men charged after Mississauga road rage incident ends with violent assault
"You didn't see us!" the pair shouted before allegedly kicking at Abu Marzouk's car. Police say they have no indication that anyone was struck by a vehicle before the violence broke out.

Abu Marzouk got out of his vehicle to talk to the men. When he did, Attar says, one of the men punched him in the face. A friend of the couple who was also at the picnic that night came over to try to break things up. He suffered minor injuries.

'Please don't hurt my husband'

"Please don't touch him, please don't hurt my husband. I have two little girls, please don't hurt my husband," Attar remembers pleading.

Nearby, she spotted a police car and ran to ask for help. When she returned, her husband had fallen to the ground, blood spilling from his ear and pooling around his head. Moments later, he lost consciousness and Attar began reciting prayers that Abu Marzouk would survive.
As she leaned over her husband to hold him, Attar says, she was kicked too.

The father of two was rushed to a Toronto trauma centre with what his family says were multiple fractures to the face along with brain hemorrhaging. Almost immediately, he was taken into surgery where Attar says they "removed a part of his skull" to stop the bleeding and put on a breathing tube.

All the while, Attar says, her four- and six-year-old daughters were asking her if their dad had died and if they would ever see him again.

Police now treating incident as hate-motivated

Two Brampton men — Janis Corhamzic, 19, and Adem Corhamzic, 27 — have been charged with one count of aggravated assault and two counts of assault. The brothers appeared in court Monday morning.
Initially, Peel Regional Police were treating the incident solely as one of road rage. But by Tuesday night, that changed with police confirming they are now investigating the attack as hate-motivated.

Supt. Robert Ryan told CBC News Tuesday the change came about as a result of comments made "about the origin of the victim at the time that the assault took place."

Ryan would not confirm the specific statements made by the men citing the ongoing investigation, but did say investigators are consulting with the Crown attorney's office. For a hate crime charge to be laid in Ontario, the province's attorney general must provide consent.
"This is just a horrendous incident," he said. "We will make sure that this investigated to the absolute end where we have the evidence we need to convict these people in court."

On Tuesday afternoon, Peel police issued a statement after questions surfaced about why the attack wasn't treated as hate-motivated from the start.

"I want to assure the public that all our officers are trained to recognize and investigate hate-motivated crime and we take these incidents very seriously," Chief Jennifer Evans said in the statement.

'We have to be concerned'

​Fuat Yucel, the friend who tried to intervene in the incident, said he's never seen anything like what he saw Sunday night.

"I've lived in this country for 39 years, I've never faced this ... There's absolutely no doubt. This is a hate crime," Yucel said. "Islamophobia? It does exist."

Ibrahim Hindy is the imam of the Dar Al-Tawheed, the mosque where Abu Marzouk's family prays.

"My kids play with their kids," he said. So when he heard that that 39-year-old was in hospital, he rushed over to visit. "I didn't realize the extent of how badly beaten he was," said Hindy, who took to social media to raise awareness about the incident Tuesday because the family "felt like they weren't being heard."
That police are now treating the incident as hate-motivated was welcome news to Hindy, who points out the number of anti-Muslim hate crimes reported to Peel police last year jumped 91 per cent.
"They were calling them Arab terrorists, so clearly their religion, their ethnicity was playing a part in that. We have to be concerned about hate against any community, but this is a significant issue that's happening," said Hindy.

Lingering images, lingering questions

"We as a society have to start recognizing the fact that hate is alive here. It was a very significant motivating factor in this attack and that needs to be acknowledged in order for it to be dealt with."
A LaunchGood fundraising page set up in support of the family states Abu Marzouk was the sole breadwinner and that his recovery could take several months.

The National Council of Canadian Muslims said in a statement Wednesday that it condemns "in the strongest possible terms the brutal assault," and called on authorities to prosecute those responsible "to the fullest extent of the law in order to send a strong message against hate and intolerance."

For her part, Attar remains shaken, the image of her husband being kicked replaying in her mind and the smell of the blood pooling around him still with her.

She's also left wondering why — if the sight of her hjiab when she poked her head out of the window might have set the men off.

"I would have lost him if the police didn't come, I would have lost him ... for nothing."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...issauga-man-speaks-out-after-attack-1.4751217

Shocking racists attacks here in Canada. The ignorance knows no bounds. Thankfully, the cops have them in custody and are going to press hate crimes charges against these two brothers.
 

Bud Plug

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Assault, of course, is a crime. On the facts as reported, these two individuals committed assault.

What is worth examining is how a common assault becomes a hate crime under our law. What seems to have happened here is there was some driving error by the victim of the assault that enraged these two people. The proposition that driving errors causing injury, or nearly causing injury, would enrage people who were struck or nearly struck is hardly an esoteric idea. But being enraged doesn't excuse assault. People are expected to show a measure of self restraint, even in those circumstances where they would be justifiably angry and upset.

It's also to be expected that when people are angry and upset, it brings out the worst in them. They do and say things that they would normally suppress.

In this circumstance, the anger and upset of the collision/near collision brought out racist comments.

Is this really what our hate crimes laws are for? It seems unlikely that these two dufuses were walking around, looking for a near accident to trigger an attack on an "Arab" (how you could be sure someone is Arab is puzzling, given the term refers to where you come from, not some identifiable racial characteristic) driver. This looks like a "heat of the moment" incident. Did they beat this victim more viciously because he was "an Arab"? How could the police know what part racism played in this assault?

In my view, hate crime laws were intended to curtail bigoted people from consciously targeting the objects of their hatred, not for tacking on extra penalties for crimes that happen to be committed by racists. Would these racists have been charged with a hate crime if they had silently beaten this man, while thinking terrible thoughts about Arabs all the while?
 

bver_hunter

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The Investigators had to decipher whether this was just plain road rage or a hate crime.
These disgusting individuals were charged with hate crimes.
We have to wait for the actual charges to be decided in court on Monday, rather than speculating whether this was a heat of the moment crime or in plain an intended hate crime.
 

canada-man

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Where is CM and zailbetter?
why are you are trying to drag me into this? somebody, who openly sympathize with Hamas and refuse to condemn Hamas have no business accusing anybody of inciting hate?
 

basketcase

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...

What is worth examining is how a common assault becomes a hate crime under our law. ...
Umm, when the Crown thinks there's evidence that the assault was racially motivated?

Maybe you can use your white nationalist legal defense fund to help these guys out too. I'm sure you can come up with some claims of a government conspiracy.
 

bver_hunter

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Assault, of course, is a crime. On the facts as reported, these two individuals committed assault.

What is worth examining is how a common assault becomes a hate crime under our law. What seems to have happened here is there was some driving error by the victim of the assault that enraged these two people. The proposition that driving errors causing injury, or nearly causing injury, would enrage people who were struck or nearly struck is hardly an esoteric idea. But being enraged doesn't excuse assault. People are expected to show a measure of self restraint, even in those circumstances where they would be justifiably angry and upset.

It's also to be expected that when people are angry and upset, it brings out the worst in them. They do and say things that they would normally suppress.

In this circumstance, the anger and upset of the collision/near collision brought out racist comments.

Is this really what our hate crimes laws are for? It seems unlikely that these two dufuses were walking around, looking for a near accident to trigger an attack on an "Arab" (how you could be sure someone is Arab is puzzling, given the term refers to where you come from, not some identifiable racial characteristic) driver. This looks like a "heat of the moment" incident. Did they beat this victim more viciously because he was "an Arab"? How could the police know what part racism played in this assault?

In my view, hate crime laws were intended to curtail bigoted people from consciously targeting the objects of their hatred, not for tacking on extra penalties for crimes that happen to be committed by racists. Would these racists have been charged with a hate crime if they had silently beaten this man, while thinking terrible thoughts about Arabs all the while?
So would you agree with the following quotation:

Road rage gone extreme, sadly. The "fuck Arab people" racist comment sounds like fiction dreamed up by the wife to add gravitas and currency to the story. I'm betting her husband was being a rude racist violent prick to the two gentlemen that he almost ran over and they decided to shut him down.
Is it racist?
 

Bud Plug

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Umm, when the Crown thinks there's evidence that the assault was racially motivated?

Maybe you can use your white nationalist legal defense fund to help these guys out too. I'm sure you can come up with some claims of a government conspiracy.
Is this your way of saying that the facts, as reported, don't make out a case for a hate crime, but you think the facts may not be correctly reported?
 

Bud Plug

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So would you agree with the following quotation:



Is it racist?
Is there a way to quote what someone else has quoted in their post? If so, please let me know how.

I've already said the comments, as reported, were racist. The question is - what did racism have to do with the crime? Did the police conclude that these 2 thugs would not have beaten the man if he was not "Arab"?

p.s. I'm disappointed you have abandoned your beloved Stormy. Your fanaticism is so fickle!
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Assault, of course, is a crime. On the facts as reported, these two individuals committed assault.

What is worth examining is how a common assault becomes a hate crime under our law. What seems to have happened here is there was some driving error by the victim of the assault that enraged these two people. The proposition that driving errors causing injury, or nearly causing injury, would enrage people who were struck or nearly struck is hardly an esoteric idea. But being enraged doesn't excuse assault. People are expected to show a measure of self restraint, even in those circumstances where they would be justifiably angry and upset.

It's also to be expected that when people are angry and upset, it brings out the worst in them. They do and say things that they would normally suppress.

In this circumstance, the anger and upset of the collision/near collision brought out racist comments.

Is this really what our hate crimes laws are for? It seems unlikely that these two dufuses were walking around, looking for a near accident to trigger an attack on an "Arab" (how you could be sure someone is Arab is puzzling, given the term refers to where you come from, not some identifiable racial characteristic) driver. This looks like a "heat of the moment" incident. Did they beat this victim more viciously because he was "an Arab"? How could the police know what part racism played in this assault?

In my view, hate crime laws were intended to curtail bigoted people from consciously targeting the objects of their hatred, not for tacking on extra penalties for crimes that happen to be committed by racists. Would these racists have been charged with a hate crime if they had silently beaten this man, while thinking terrible thoughts about Arabs all the while?
You answered your own final question. If the victim's ethnicity wasn't a factor in the assailant's criminal actions why would they have mentioned it at all? Although I can't imagine how it could be specifically proven, I think you nailed it when you asked, "Did they beat this victim more viciously because he was "an Arab"?" They made it clear it was significant in their 'thinking'. Had they kept their hate silently to themselves, they'd only have been guilty of beating the man, and perhaps not to the point of brain damage, had he looked and dressed like them. And all this has yet to see a courtroom.

Since ethnic Arabs consider themselves to be descended from Ishmael, the first of the sons of Abraham, just as ethnic Jews believe they are descended from his second son Isaac, it is a misapprehension to believe 'arab' is nothing but a geographic label, even if that's the only way you use the term.
 

Bud Plug

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You answered your own final question. If the victim's ethnicity wasn't a factor in the assailant's criminal actions why would they have mentioned it at all? Although I can't imagine how it could be specifically proven, I think you nailed it when you asked, "Did they beat this victim more viciously because he was "an Arab"?" They made it clear it was significant in their 'thinking'. Had they kept their hate silently to themselves, they'd only have been guilty of beating the man, and perhaps not to the point of brain damage, had he looked and dressed like them. And all this has yet to see a courtroom.

Since ethnic Arabs consider themselves to be descended from Ishmael, the first of the sons of Abraham, just as ethnic Jews believe they are descended from his second son Isaac, it is a misapprehension to believe 'arab' is nothing but a geographic label, even if that's the only way you use the term.
I disagree with your reasoning. When people are enraged, it's not so easy to delineate precisely what motivates them. Look at the ample evidence in the postings on this board. On that logic, we should discount everything said about Trump by a large host of posters who have expressed their personal hatred of Trump in every way possible!

A racist may hate people because of their association with a group, but that does not mean, logically, that every action towards people in that group is motivated or affected by that hate. Conversely, suppressing expression of your motivations of hatred doesn't negate the motivation.

Of course all of this has yet to see a courtroom. However, in the meantime the press reports on it, and the public forms their understanding on how our laws work largely on the reporting of the press, rather than from reading court decisions.
 

bver_hunter

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Is there a way to quote what someone else has quoted in their post? If so, please let me know how.

I've already said the comments, as reported, were racist. The question is - what did racism have to do with the crime? Did the police conclude that these 2 thugs would not have beaten the man if he was not "Arab"?

p.s. I'm disappointed you have abandoned your beloved Stormy. Your fanaticism is so fickle!
At least you acknowledge that Smallcock's comments in the same thread that was posted in The lounge is downright racist.
Maybe, you should ask the cops why they are charging these two racists brothers and their reasoning behind their brutal crime act. Maybe the two brothers might have had a verbal altercation with this guy if he was not perceived to be "Arab". I mean if you see some of the comments against Muslims in general even on this forum, you will notice a general hatred for that religion. Hate crimes are normally more violent than general crimes.

Do not worry about Stormy. She will save America for sure. Your love for your cult figure called Trumptard is truly fickle. LOL!!
 

Bud Plug

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At least you acknowledge that Smallcock's comments in the same thread that was posted in The lounge is downright racist.
Maybe, you should ask the cops why they are charging these two racists brothers and their reasoning behind their brutal crime act. Maybe the two brothers might have had a verbal altercation with this guy if he was not perceived to be "Arab". I mean if you see some of the comments against Muslims in general even on this forum, you will notice a general hatred for that religion. Hate crimes are normally more violent than general crimes.

Do not worry about Stormy. She will save America for sure. Your love for your cult figure called Trumptard is truly fickle. LOL!!
The comments I confirmed as racist were the comments of the two men who were charged.

Maybe a lot of other things happened, but those other things aren't reported.

As to whether hate crimes are more violent, how, logically could that be so? A murder is a murder. An assault is an assault. Are you trying to say that the more violent a crime, the more likely there was a hate (within the meaning of the hate crimes law) component to it? Is there any data to back that up? It seems like an exercise in mind reading to me. I'm not sure why I should be more appalled at one senseless murder because the murderer was a bigot, compared to another senseless murder where the murderer was an equal opportunity murderer. Or is the underpinning to this the concept that some people should be more entitled to protection under the law than others?
 

bver_hunter

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The comments I confirmed as racist were the comments of the two men who were charged.

Maybe a lot of other things happened, but those other things aren't reported.

As to whether hate crimes are more violent, how, logically could that be so? A murder is a murder. An assault is an assault. Are you trying to say that the more violent a crime, the more likely there was a hate (within the meaning of the hate crimes law) component to it? Is there any data to back that up? It seems like an exercise in mind reading to me. I'm not sure why I should be more appalled at one senseless murder because the murderer was a bigot, compared to another senseless murder where the murderer was an equal opportunity murderer. Or is the underpinning to this the concept that some people should be more entitled to protection under the law than others?
Hate crimes were more violent in 2016
Based on data from police services that provided detailed information on hate crimes for both 2015 and 2016, an increased violence was observed in hate crimes. For example, violent hate-motivated crimes (for example, assault, threats, criminal harassment and other violent offences) rose from 487 in 2015 to 563 in 2016, up 16%. In 2016, 43% of hate crimes were violent, compared with 38% in 2015.

Hate crimes targeting sexual orientation continued to be the most violent hate crimes. In 2016, 71% of hate crimes motivated by hatred of the victims' sexual orientation were violent crimes. By comparison, 27% of hate crimes targeting religion and 45% targeting ethnicity were violent.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/171128/dq171128d-eng.htm
 

Bud Plug

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bver_hunter

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Your logic here is hard to follow, but let me try. On your stats:

1. The number of crimes identified as hate crimes rose from 487 in 2015 to 516 in 2016.
2. The percentage of hate crimes involving violence rose from 38% in 2015 to 45% in 2016.

Nothing here about hate crimes being more violent than the same crimes absent a hate element.
The increases in violent hate crimes points to the fact that this individual would not have been as violently assaulted had he not been "Arabic". We have to see whether these two disgusting criminal brothers had a history of violent crimes or if this was motivated by hatred for the victim's religion. This is the most recent update on this particular crime:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4340554/hate-crimes-canada-criminal-code/

The fact that Violent hate crimes have been declining while I showed you that violent hate crimes are on the rise. Now it is impossible to prove on a case by case basis whether the violence would be more severe if it was racially motivated out of hatred. But if you do not believe the statistics, then let's wait for this particular case to play out in court. Maybe it seems normal to you for such a brutal beating to be common!!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...-in-our-cities-replaced-by-fear-and-distrust/
 

Bud Plug

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The increases in violent hate crimes points to the fact that this individual would not have been as violently assaulted had he not been "Arabic".
No, that isn't the logical extension of those statistics.

We have to see whether these two disgusting criminal brothers had a history of violent crimes or if this was motivated by hatred for the victim's religion. This is the most recent update on this particular crime:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4340554/hate-crimes-canada-criminal-code/

The fact that Violent hate crimes have been declining while I showed you that violent hate crimes are on the rise. Now it is impossible to prove on a case by case basis whether the violence would be more severe if it was racially motivated out of hatred. But if you do not believe the statistics, then let's wait for this particular case to play out in court. Maybe it seems normal to you for such a brutal beating to be common!!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...-in-our-cities-replaced-by-fear-and-distrust/
I believe the statistics. They just don't demonstrate the point you were trying to make.
 

oldjones

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I disagree with your reasoning. When people are enraged, it's not so easy to delineate precisely what motivates them. Look at the ample evidence in the postings on this board. On that logic, we should discount everything said about Trump by a large host of posters who have expressed their personal hatred of Trump in every way possible!

A racist may hate people because of their association with a group, but that does not mean, logically, that every action towards people in that group is motivated or affected by that hate. Conversely, suppressing expression of your motivations of hatred doesn't negate the motivation.

Of course all of this has yet to see a courtroom. However, in the meantime the press reports on it, and the public forms their understanding on how our laws work largely on the reporting of the press, rather than from reading court decisions.
Re Trump: Indeed. Don't you do exactly that? I certainly do.

On topic: In your world determining someone's unexpressed motivations may be routine; in the day-to-day we must go by what people say. As in this clear-cut case. I can buy your hypothetical of a racist assaulting a member of their hated group, but not motivated by their racism alone — e.g. because the victim's dog shat in their petunias — but that has nothing to do with this case where the hatred was clearly verbalized. In any case, all their silence would do is reduce the offence to simple assault, as I said above, so what is your point? Are you asserting against the reports that there was no outward expression of hatred?

Frankly I'm much less interested in how our laws work than I am in how ordinary people — like the two vicious clowns in this incident — fail to work at the daily business of getting along. Once they've shown themselves to be unfit to share the community without correction, I'll rely on the professionals to accomplish the law's purpose: to demonstrate the painful and inevitable downside of ignoring the simple norms of the community to act out your infantile angers, wants and hates at the cost of others.

While contemporary media in general have certainly declined towards tabloid sensationalism and pandering to prejudice, I can't see how that relates to the account here, which reported the legal proceedings so far with apparent objectivity. When there's a decision, we can comment on that.
 
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