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Wow, sure hard for a Canadian to get back to Canada!

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Dave in Phoenix

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I could hardly believe how hard it is for my U.S. resident client holding dual citizenship with Canada to go to Toronto to see his daughter and grandchildren. Wanted to go in August but will probably have to postpone with all the Canadian complexities. He is in 80's retired long ago from Montreal where he gets a pension and files both U.S. and Canadian tax returns.

It seems far more complicated than when I got my U.S. passport or Canadian Nexus or now Trusted Traveler clearance.

The passport photo requirements are far more exacting than for the U.S. - you can not smile! He checked and Costco photos don't meet requirements but he is told Walgreens does.

May not have a guarantor (Canadian citizen with valid passport within 12 months) so may have to do the declaration route.

Question about prior Canadian Travel Document seems confusing... ok expired in 2011. So, still has to include info or report it as lost or stolen even if expired long ago?

It appears he would qualify for a special authorization if he waited until 10 days before flight. But he wants to get airline booked in advanced at cheapest non-refundable rates so can't wait and take chances. He will fly the same flight I take on Air Canada direct from Phoenix.

According to https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...nada/dual-canadian-citizens-visit-canada.html
A dual citizen needs a Canadian passport but with an exception if dual Canadian/U.S. citizenship with proper documents and is eligible to enter Canada.

But then the requirements get confusing for old Dave (with a CPA background use to reading the tax codes).

Seems OK on proper id requirement but then "basic requirements to enter Canada". Seems you need a visa stamp on your passport (which you don't have) or a passport to avoid needing a passport???? You may also need a medical exam and letter of invitation from someone who lives in Canada.

Unless a passport or valid travel document would include a U.S. passport! Yet he is being told needs a Canadian passport so I am confused!
 
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John Henry

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Why not just use his US passport to fly into Canada . Then when he is here go to the Canadian passport office and apply for a Canadian passport . Talk to them directly and see what he needs to get a Canadian passport . Shoppers Drug Mart take legal passport photos in Canada .
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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John Henry said:
Why not just use his US passport to fly into Canada . Then when he is here go to the Canadian passport office and apply for a Canadian passport . Talk to them directly and see what he needs to get a Canadian passport . Shoppers Drug Mart take legal passport photos in Canada .
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According to his phone call with Canada immigration (nice person) they won't let him into Canada on just a US passport so can't get to a Canadian passport office. He is in 80s and sometimes can be confused so trying to help since doesn't sound right.
 
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Aardvark154

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Seems strange that he would let his Canadian Passport expire for so long especially if he is living in the U.S.
 
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essguy_

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I would advise that he get in touch with a Canadian consulate office in the U.S. Canada used to have an office in Arizona (I think it was Phoenix) but it's closed now. But it would be far better (given his age and circumstance) to find a sympathetic advocate in a Canadian US Consulate office. The good news is the Canadian Passport process is one of the rare Govt functions that can work pretty quickly and efficiently. So the key would be get a contact in the U.S. who will be able to point him in the right direction. There's one in Dallas, one in Denver, and one in LA. Dallas might be a good start.

https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/embassies-consulates/united-states
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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Aardvark - His daughter just moved to Toronto recently and he had no desire or need to go back to Canada since 2011 (no family there etc) Wife is also dual but her Canadian passport also expired long ago (met in Montreal).

essguy - Thanks good info.

I also called the Canadian immigration office phone listed on the passport application. Only took about a minute to reach a humaniod (nice gal). She confirmed what I thought from the beginning that for dual CDN/US a US passport is a valid travel document. So does not need a Canadian passport. But he says same office told him the opposite. The nice gal also gave me a direct border agent phone can call to confirm but now closed.

If does passport application he was confused and didn't realize needs a Canadian citizen to be guarantor with a valid Canadian passport. Hopefully I can make it easier for him not having to wait for a passport - takes something like 20 days but can just send back if any errors on it etc so can be long process if not done correctly.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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What a mess. It looks like there is a difference if you are an American-Canadian or Canadian-American. The ability to use a US passport is only if you are American-Canadian. So this does not apply to my client who is Canadian-American.

Therefore, it is concluded he can not travel to Canada on a US passport so will delay trip to get Canadian passport processed.

This is for air entry seems different if by sea or ground!
 
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einar

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Dave, procuring a Canadian passport after it has lapsed is now a major headache and very slow process. Since the Sept. 11 WTC attack of 17 years ago, both the US and Canada have made passport issuing more rigorous and slower. There was no reason for your dual national client to bother to keep his Cdn. passport up to date, so long as he has a current US passport - I get that. He may want to regain a Cdn. passport eventually for sentimental reasons or whatever, and he can certainly do so, but to my knowledge the process would take too long for this upcoming trip. A rush job is acceptable only in cases of death or major illness.

As others have said, he can simply travel on a valid US passport. An airline or travel agent can confirm this. You have implied he has a valid US passport, but are you sure and is he sure? Is he also sure it is not near its expiration date? That could set off Cdn. alarm bells if the US passport is expiring in a matter of months versus years. If so, he should renew his US passport pronto. But he doesn't need an invitation from his family, or a medical exemption, to visit Canada.

UNLESS...he is planning a visit of more than a a couple of weeks. If he shows up at Toronto's Pearson Airport without a return ticket to Arizona, and tells the border official that he is visiting his daughter in Toronto for "a few months, or maybe until Trump is out of office," then alarm bells will indeed ring, and it is conceivable that he would not be welcomed home to the land of his birth.

The Cdn. consulate in LA covers Arizona issues, if you want to confirm my advice.
 
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einar

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Dave, I'm looking at your post #7 and it is incorrect. A valid US passport that is not within months of its expiry date is just as valid for your Cdn.-born client as for a US-born American. This guy should worry about something else, not about visiting his daughter. Just call Air Canada and ask them.

Or refer to the govt. website link you posted in #1: "If you are an American-Cdn. citizen with a valid US passport, you don't need a Cdn. passport to fly to Canada."
 
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renuck

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I can sympathize with this. When I moved back to Canada I felt like a freshly landed immigrant. I was even still a full fledged Canadian citizen, no dual citizenship. I was held at the border for hours, paper work took me a couple weeks of running around, even a waiting period to get back on OHIP. Can't say I felt welcomed home.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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einar said:
. Just call Air Canada and ask them.
Or refer to the govt. website link you posted in #1: "If you are an American-Cdn. citizen with a valid US passport, you don't need a Cdn. passport to fly to Canada."
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Einer - whose usually right but.... see info below. The website link is what made me quite sure he didn't need a CDN passport but he called the immigration line again and they say (although on my call got opposite answer), that since he is not an American-Cdn it doesn't apply. He is Canadian-American (Canada first) and they say that is why he requires a Canadian not US passport. I tried calling Air Canada but even at 3 AM ET they have a 30 minute hold time due to bad weather in the U.S. high call volumn. I will try later.

These articles seem to clearly show the new rules - but I am still bothered by the website exception for Amer/Cdn vs Cdn/American. If that distintion is really true. Its really bad when you can't get the same answer when calling the Canadian immigration service (that is listed on the passport application).

The general consular office phone says they don't answer immigration questions only if you have been arrested, need medical help or other emergencies - consular services website says the same..

Here are articles:
New Entry Requirement for Dual Canadian Citizens Flying to Canada
The Canadian government is strengthening border security and exit controls with a series of regulations that impact visitors to Canada. Starting November 10, 2016, Canadians with dual citizenship are now required to carry their Canadian passports to fly to Canada.

As a Canadian expat, if you’ve been flying home to Canada using your passport from a visa-exempt country, you can still do so until Nov. 9th, 2016. After this leniency period, you’ll no longer be able to use your foreign passport or apply for an eTA to enter Canada. Instead, you’ll need a travel document to prove your citizenship.

Until now, Canadian dual citizens could prove their Canadian citizenship with their driver’s licence or citizenship card. However, with the new regulations starting Nov. 10th, 2016, only the following documents will grant entry into Canada by air:

A valid Canadian passport
A temporary Canadian passport or
An emergency travel document

The passport requirement for dual citizens only applies when you fly to Canada–not when you enter the country via land or sea.

Air travelers should present a valid Canadian passport at check-in to boarding their flight. If you don’t have the appropriate documents, contact the nearest Government of Canada office before flying.

Various reader comments:
Dual Canadian citizens say the new requirement is nothing more than a cash grab.“That is a rip-off for those like myself who live outside of Canada,” Henderson told the Citizen, calling it “unfair discrimination.”

I’m a dual U.S.-Canadian citizen. I have only ever used a U.S. passport to enter Canada by land, and have never had any trouble. Recently though, a rule has been made that a Canadian citizen must use a Canadian passport when entering the country by air.

There are also articles about the flood of new passport applications and delays due to the new law, although from 2017 so maybe slowed down by now.
 
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Aardvark154

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To probably throw mud into the water the typical rule if you are dual national is that you must enter each county on that countries passport. That is one of the reasons why I'm puzzled as to why if he didn't renounce his Canadian Citizenship, he didn't bother to renew his Canadian Passport.
 
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essguy_

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Aardvark154 said:
To probably throw mud into the water the typical rule if you are dual national is that you must enter each county on that countries passport. That is one of the reasons why I'm puzzled as to why if he didn't renounce his Canadian Citizenship, he didn't bother to renew his Canadian Passport.
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A lot of people don’t travel a lot across borders so don’t need a passport. I still think the best course is to contact a Canadian consulate office. Your friend is in his 80’s, Canadian, and simply wants to visit home to see his daughter. I can’t imagine that a consulate official would ignore this or refuse to provide good advice and assistance. And if he meets resistance or some lazy a-hole who doesn’t want to assist, then contact a Canadian media outlet who might run with this story - eg: the Toronto Star. I’m not joking!
 
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Aardvark154

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What you really need to do Dave if you have not already done so is sit down with your friend and call the Canadian Citizen Services Contact Centre for Canadians in the U.S. at 1-844-880-6519. There will be additional fees for rush services. But given the time frame and his age this sounds like he qualifies to use this number.

Canadian Consulates and Consulate Generals in the U.S. do not provide passport services.

I presume he still has his expired passport, he should have it with him when you call.
 
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essguy_

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Aardvark154 said:
What you really need to do Dave if you have not already done so is sit down with your friend and call the Canadian Citizen Services Contact Centre for Canadians in the U.S. at 1-844-880-6519. There will be additional fees for rush services. But given the time frame and his age this sounds like he qualifies to use this number.

Canadian Consulates and Consulate Generals in the U.S. do not provide passport services.
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You could try this, but I disagree about not contacting a consular office. They exist to assist. The LA, Dallas, and Denver offices are trade offices, but your friend needs a name, not a toll free. Any consular official will be able to point your friend in the right direction perhaps even provide a contact in the Passport area who will nurse the issue forward. As I said in my initial post, the Canadian Passport agency is one Govt agency that is capable of moving quickly if necessary. All your friend needs is the right contact to do this. Have your friend call, be polite, and keep a record of who he has spoken with.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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Aardvark154 said:
To probably throw mud into the water the typical rule if you are dual national is that you must enter each county on that countries passport. That is one of the reasons why I'm puzzled as to why if he didn't renounce his Canadian Citizenship, he didn't bother to renew his Canadian Passport.
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He is very frugal - even more than our friend Einer. He was upset that he has to pay Walgreens $19.95 for a passport photo that will meet Canadian requirements vs Costco at about $7. He has a few miliions invested with me. He had no plans to return to Canada until now he has a daughter living in Toronto.
 
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John Henry

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Dave in Phoenix said:
He is very frugal - even more than our friend Einer. He was upset that he has to pay Walgreens $19.95 for a passport photo that will meet Canadian requirements vs Costco at about $7. He has a few miliions invested with me. He had no plans to return to Canada until now he has a daughter living in Toronto.
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That's too bad . He has millions yet he worries about a few extra dollars . He had a Canadian passport to begin with . Even though he didn't plan on visiting Canada again why would a person let something like that slide . Now it just might cost him more money than what he would have spent on renewing his passport when needed .

I have a hunting license . I haven't hunted in 12 years but I still keep paying every 3 years to keep that license updated . I also have an AZ license . Do not plan on driving a truck anymore but I still keep that license updated . You just never know .

Why not fly into Buffalo and have his daughter pick him up or he could take a bus from Buffalo to Toronto . Just have him declare himself an American citizen and keep his mouth shut about having dual citizenship .

I'm an American and I'm going to visit my daughter in Toronto for a few weeks . That's what I would do .

Sometimes being frugal can cost you more money than what you think you're saving .
 
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einar

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Dave, Canada's governmental websites are not allow crystal clear, and I see why you are concerned for your client. Someone with more knowledge than me will have to confirm that there is a clear exemption for dual nationals of the US and Canada. That's how I read it.

If you can't get such confirmation, then John Henry's solution makes perfect sense: fly in and out of Buffalo, and cross the border by private vehicle (rented or daughter's car). In this cars clearly a US passport alone suffices, and the fact that your Arizona client was born in Canada might merit at most a smile from a Cdn. border guard.
 
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jcpro

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a Canadian citizen you don't need a passport to re enter. You do need a proof of citizenship, like a birth certificate or a citizenship card.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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Agreed being frugal doesn't always pay but before 2016 he could fly in with just a US passport.

Good idea flying into Buffalo since not an issue by land or sea. The only issue is Southwest Phx to Buffalo when I priced it is more expensive than Air Canada direct to Toronto. SW is kind of a discount airline and years ago it was substantailly less than Phx-YYZ so I took the Buffalo route many times stopping at strip clubs in Niagara, Niagara on the Lake and Hamilton on way to Toronto. There was also a now long closed strip club just over the border from Buffalo in Canada that I enjoyed.

Daughter with kids etc so he would probably have to rent a car. Gosh, I can't imagine him driving the 401 or the Queensway? from Buffalo I was so stuck in traffic a few weeks ago from Niagara-Toronto. I believe daughter in somewhere near downtown area. He also complains about everything possible. But I understand his confusion.

Thanks to Aardvark for Canadian Citizen Services Contact Centre idea, I my try them Monday.

I am still not 100% sure he needs the CDN passport.

I called and easily reached Air Canada who said as far as they know he just needs a US passport but its up to immigration - I didn't get the idea she really knew for sure.
 
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