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Why Not Mexico

onthebottom

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oldjones

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Butler1000

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You'd have to ask them. Or all the Mexican refugees who have applied — without success or sympathy from your country — for asylum form the oppressive gang-violence and lawlessness there.
How many millions are they expected to take in?

And are you saying that Mexico is a hopeless shithole?
 

onthebottom

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oldjones

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How many millions are they expected to take in?

And are you saying that Mexico is a hopeless shithole?
Like I said.

Ask them why they don't think Mexico is safe for them. Or try doing what they've done — crossing a thousand dangerous miles in poverty — with your kids, but you'll need more motivation that your poster's whim that it's a doddle.
 

onthebottom

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oldjones

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Then your post was a little silly.
Only if don't care what a safe country is, whether defined by personal opinion or by some statute, treaty or declaration (The UNHCR's definition is online). Apparently you don't, though it was your question.

Make your case that Mexico is a safe country for poor refugees from Venezuela, Guatemala or Nicaragua then, even many Mexicans have testified with their feet that they don't agree.
 

Bud Plug

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You'd have to ask them. Or all the Mexican refugees who have applied — without success or sympathy from your country — for asylum from the oppressive gang-violence and lawlessness there.
No need to ask them. While Mexico is "safe" based on world refugee standards, average household income there is only about $10,000, while in 2016 it was just under $60K in the US. Mystery solved.
 

Butler1000

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Only if don't care what a safe country is, whether defined by personal opinion or by some statute, treaty or declaration (The UNHCR's definition is online). Apparently you don't, though it was your question.

Make your case that Mexico is a safe country for poor refugees from Venezuela, Guatemala or Nicaragua then, even many Mexicans have testified with their feet that they don't agree.
I'd say the fact they made it from one border to the other is a good indicator.

Beyond that though it's Still a shitty place.
 

oldjones

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I'd say the fact they made it from one border to the other is a good indicator.

Beyond that though it's Still a shitty place.
Now that's a Catch22!. "OK, They were killed on the way, that can't be a safe country! Let 'em in" By your standards Syria is a safe country for the ones who made it out. Send 'em back !
 

oldjones

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No need to ask them. While Mexico is "safe" based on world refugee standards, average household income there is only about $10,000, while in 2016 it was just under $60K in the US. Mystery solved.
Although your comparison only works if you're claiming refugees and/or illegal immigrant families are 'average" households, it's true life in America looks better. Especially if there's mass unemployment, rampant violent crime and police corruption and 25000% inflation where you're fleeing from.
 

Bud Plug

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Although your comparison only works if you're claiming refugees and/or illegal immigrant families are 'average" households, it's true life in America looks better.
I'm sure they aspire to be.
 

oldjones

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I'm sure they aspire to be.
Me too. As humans have always moved from privation to plenty. Why do you think 'we palefaces' are here instead of still in Europe? Or in the trees with our close cousins who we left behind long ago?
 

Bud Plug

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Me too. As humans have always moved from privation to plenty. Why do you think 'we palefaces' are here instead of still in Europe? Or in the trees with our close cousins who we left behind long ago?
The history of mankind is certainly brutish, in part. However, it takes more than being the first to hop in a boat to explain the divergent prosperity of various population groups. I don't think England would be filled with wigwams today had the native North American peoples decided to canoe over there first.
 

oldjones

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The history of mankind is certainly brutish, in part. However, it takes more than being the first to hop in a boat to explain the divergent prosperity of various population groups. I don't think England would be filled with wigwams today had the native North American peoples decided to canoe over there first.
Any more that Newfoundland is filled with medieval Norse banqueting halls to day.

But no one left home and hopped on a boat — or trudged through unknown country — to be worse off than before.
 

Butler1000

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Now that's a Catch22!. "OK, They were killed on the way, that can't be a safe country! Let 'em in" By your standards Syria is a safe country for the ones who made it out. Send 'em back !
No but Jordan is. Mexico is Jordan in that example.
 

Bud Plug

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Any more that Newfoundland is filled with medieval Norse banqueting halls to day.
Not sure I can agree that Newfoundland isn't medieval. Iceland is modern and developed by comparison! It might be time for a new political party on The Rock - "Bring Back the Vikings!"
 

mandrill

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REYNOSA, Mexico — Families waiting inside Mexico to cross into the US are increasingly nervous as reports of the child separations enforced under the Trump administration's "zero tolerance policy" sow fear and anger on the other side of the border.

At a migrant shelter in Reynosa, one of the country’s most dangerous cities, BuzzFeed News spoke with four families who are weighing whether to make another attempt at the border or come up with a Plan B — unfathomable for those who fled their countries afraid for their lives.

As Claudia walked past Mexican immigration agents at the bridge connecting Reynosa and Hidalgo, Texas, ready to show their US counterparts proof of her brother’s murder and the risk it presented to the rest of the family, they advised her to turn around because “your kids will be taken from you.”

Patricia tried to cross the bridge with her 7-year-old son to ask for asylum two weeks ago but US authorities turned them around. They never gave her a reason.

Piedad, who witnessed two of her husband’s cousins get killed, had it worse: US agents turned her and her three children over to Mexican authorities, who in turn put them in detention for a week.

They are all now in a kind of purgatory, within walking distance from the Rio Grande but 1,500 long miles from their homes in El Salvador and Honduras, hoping to hear that the Trump administration has backtracked on its “zero tolerance” policy against immigrants, which has led to 2,342 children being separated from their families since May.
Claudia with her daughter, 6, looks out from her shared room at a shelter in Reynosa
Meghan Dhaliwal for BuzzFeed News

Claudia with her daughter, 6, looks out from her shared room at a shelter in Reynosa

Most of the families affected by Trump’s policy are, like them, from Central America, where gangs frequently extort small businesses, forcibly recruit pre-teen kids, and burn houses down as a form of punishment for those who don’t comply with their orders. US Attorney General Jeff Sessions earlier this month issued a ruling making it harder for people fleeing domestic violence and gang violence to claim asylum.


Bottom, this is from your own article. Arbitrary detention and high violent crime rate in Mexico suggest that it's NOT a safe third country.

But this article hardly corresponds to what I suggested you do yesterday - i.e. find legal journals and case reports from US immigration judges discussing and rendering formal judicial decisions on whether Mexico is a "safe third country" within the US judicial interpretation of the UN Charter on Refugees. Articles from BuzzFee don't count as legal decisions, last I heard.
 

mandrill

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No need to ask them. While Mexico is "safe" based on world refugee standards, average household income there is only about $10,000, while in 2016 it was just under $60K in the US. Mystery solved.
Does Mexico even have a refugee determination system? Do the people they apparently allow to float in and out of their country get to stay there permanently of are they removed at some point and send back to Honduras. Can Mexico provide even minimum acceptable standards of health care and law enforcement for refugees?

All question I would be asking.
 
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