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How do you feel about breaking the law?

NiceShoes

man with nice shoes
Mar 29, 2003
374
2
18
I want to get back into hobbying again, but I can't get over this fear of breaking the law and I could be facing a criminal charge if shit happens. I understand that Johns haven't been charged under C36 yet. So for those of you who actively hobbying now, do you even have a slightest concern that cops may bust on you because they got your information from the agency etc? How did you guys get over this fear?
 

renuck

New member
May 12, 2017
374
2
0
Welp I don't have much of value to offer here but I'll throw in my opinion. I really haven't given a second thought about the legal implications. From everything I've seen the law has been involved to target human trafficking and sex with minors. I fully support both of these actions. I really don't think sex between consenting adults is high on their priority list, and if you are seeing known SPs that are definitely not involved in either of those then I think your chances of getting caught (WRT the law) are very slim or nonexistent.

On a side note (appreciating the fact that screening has been a hot topic lately)... if you're that concerned about it don't go anywhere that requires any personal information. Some ladies require it and that's their right if they choose, but there are lots that don't as well so you have choices.
 

drlove

Ph.D. in Pussyology
Oct 14, 2001
4,709
52
48
The doctor is in
... if you're that concerned about it don't go anywhere that requires any personal information. Some ladies require it and that's their right if they choose, but there are lots that don't as well so you have choices.
Wouldn't that effectively eliminate outcalls, then? You have to give the lady your name and address - info which is then stored on her phone, creating a trail.
 

NiceShoes

man with nice shoes
Mar 29, 2003
374
2
18
Any lawers out there who hobby care to comment? Let's say an agency or escort turn up your number and/or text messages (which has no detail other than time and location) between you and the escort, will that be enough evidence for someone to be charged under C36? Or another way of asking would be, how can justice system can prove that a john bought sex?
 
In order to break the law, a customer has to offer money (or probably valuable consideration) for sex. I don't know about you, but I pay for time with a lady not for sex. Likewise agencies do not advertise sex acts only time. Remember under pre-C36 "living of the avails" was illegal - but agencies were never bothered, again they sell time with a lady not for sex acts.

After C36 most major cities police issued press releases saying no change in enforcement i.e. going after real pimps, underaged and street workers bsaed on complaints. More or less the major cities LE said about the same. I used to have the Toronto LE release but for the life of my can't find where I saved it1 Most LE followed the harm reduction model of the Supreme Court uphold of the extensive Superior Court long ruling that made it clear the old law violated the Charter of RIghts for safety of the person i.e. harm reduction. C36 is being challanged in the London agency case now although delayed till January and moved to a larger city court. London has been known to be more conservative than most major cities.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,094
2,592
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
For the record, here's what police departments we spoke to had to say about how the new anti-prostitution law is being enforced - or not.

Toronto According to Chief Bill Blair's spokesperson, Mark Pugash, the new law hasn't changed the way the force is dealing with prostitution. They continue to rely on complaints. Pugash says public safety is the force's "highest concern," but he seems to be talking more about residents' concerns than the safety of sex workers. "If the complaints we get require us to use tools we didn't have before, then we will do that."

Ottawa Acting Inspector Mike Laviolette of the Ottawa Police Service's Central District, where most of the city's sex work takes place, says police were already conducting semi-regular sweeps for johns before the new law came into effect. The new law has empowered them to go after johns in new ways, he says. Where before they used offences like "impeding traffic" to stop johns, they're now charging them with communicating for the purpose of procuring sex. He says johns, not sex workers, have always been the focus of his department. As for the new law: "There's some good things in there, some things we'd like to see different. But we work with the law we have. We can suspend operations, but my phone doesn't stop ringing from residents calling to complain about condoms on their driveway."

Montreal Service de police de la Ville de Montréal's Chief Inspector Johanne Paquin says police are meeting with the director of prosecution from the criminal courts in a few weeks to work out how they're going to deal with the new law. He says the force is continuing to prioritize the goals in its 2013 plan: fighting human trafficking, keeping minors out of the sex trade and working on issues with street prostitution.

York Region One of the officers overseeing York Region's vice squad, Detective Sergeant Peter Casey says the new law has changed the department's focus. The force is spending more time on human trafficking. "Not that it was legal before, but the government did say when proposing the bill that this was something they wanted to focus on, so we're putting some of our focus on that," he says, "particularly those who are seeking the services of young girls in the sex trade under the age of 18."

London Constable Ken Steeves, a spokesperson for the London Police Service, says the service doesn't have a dedicated vice squad but does conduct initiatives throughout the year to regulate sex work. London also has a dedicated officer who works with the city's sex workers to help them remain safe and make a change of lifestyle if they want to. Unfortunately, Steeves says, there are not enough resources to be more proactive in that regard. "Most of the time our officers are going literally call to call," he says.

Winnipeg Sergeant Cam MacKid of the Winnipeg Police Service's Counter Exploitation Unit says they haven't charged sex workers with any of the offences struck down by the Supreme Court since fall of 2013. "The focus is still on the johns or the pimps or the exploiters," he says. "The definitions [in the new law] are a little broader on what we can charge the johns with. But discussions are still going on with Manitoba Justice about a few things we'd like to try, so it would be kind of premature for me to discuss those.

"I do see some avenues where we could maybe do some different kinds of enforcement with regards to online activity. We just want to make sure, when we start out with a new initiative or new enforcement technique, that it's been well thought out and we've discussed it with our partners at Manitoba Justice so we know we're on strong footing."

Regina The Regina Police Service has only recently begun charging people under the new law, according to Detective Constable Josh Potter of the vice service. It took that long to update their system for laying charges. "When it comes to enforcement on the worker, we're a lot more restricted now, so it really narrows down where we can do that. With the customer, [the new law] opens up where we can do enforcement. [Instead of] just doing street-level enforcement in public places, now we can do enforcement in private places such as hotels."

Edmonton Staff Sergeant Jamie Clover of the Edmonton Police Service's vice squad says the force is still feeling out the new legislation. "Historically we've always focused on the demand side, the exploitation side, and tried to make sure it was a safe sex environment. It hasn't changed a lot. But what it has done is force us to look at the way we have operated and the way we will operate in the future. Particularly anyone profiting off another person's sale is becoming more of a target for us.

"It's tough for us to maintain a trusting relationship with front-line sex workers, escorts, people who work in body rubs, with all sorts of people, when really what the legislation is saying is part of this transaction is illegal and part of it is legal. It's hard for regular people to understand, so we're struggling with that a little bit."

Vancouver Vancouver Police Department spokesperson Sergeant Randy Fincham says the new law hasn't changed police's decision-making process on the street. "Police still have the opportunity to exercise discretion when enforcing federal law," he says. "Whether it's a law that relates to a john or to a sex trade worker, we'll look at the individual offence," he says.

Halifax The force hasn't used the new law yet, says Halifax Regional Police spokesperson Constable ************ Bourdages, and there hasn't been a conversation about how it might be used, although the force has also changed its focus in the last year and a half to look at vulnerable persons exploited in the sex trade. "We follow up with any complaints we get, but at this time we don't have any charges in front of the courts in relation to the new law."

Peterborough Deputy chief Tim Farquharson says the force's last prostitution project was in 2000. "We stopped doing street-level projects. If you're doing it for the numbers to impress the police board and media, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. It's not about ignoring laws. The whole thing should be, are we making the community a better place?

"I'm not trying to tell other people how to do their job, but the way we're going to do it, that's not changing. There are laws there. But do we have to enforce everything when what we're really talking about is a health issue?"

https://nowtoronto.com/news/cops-tread-cautiously-on-feds-new-sex-worker-law/
 

disco101

New member
Mar 8, 2018
10
0
0
I have friends who work for both the Toronto and the Durham police. I first asked them what they think of massage parlors since they technically are illegal. They told me that they've been to the parlors several times, but only to deal with an intoxicated/belligerent client. They say their superiors are not at all interested in massage parlors. I then asked them about the escort ads online. They said they don't arrest people for that because they are "escorts" and you are simply paying an adult female for a certain amount of their time. If during that time consensual sex occurs, there's nothing illegal about that. They told me that years and years ago they would occasionally set up stings like you see when you watch COPS which takes place in the US, but they would typically just hand out tickets. They both said that that's never done anymore. Their vice divisions are now essentially a few guys who focus on targeting pimps and human trafficking. I asked if either of them had or heard of a john being arrested in their departments under the new laws, they both said no.
 

Greekgod69

Member
Oct 4, 2016
116
18
18
So for those of you who actively hobbying now, do you even have a slightest concern that cops may bust on you because they got your information from the agency etc?
I haven't read the law. Is this even possible? I always assumed that if you ever were to get "busted", it would be during the act itself. Kind of like the cops aren't going to break down your door because you bought drugs.
 
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