Leaving the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community in Jerusalem - Documentary

Frankfooter said:

Abbas offered everything that Israel asked and still Israel said no. ...

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Talk about complete inversion of rerality. If Abbas actually offered everything they wanted, why did he walk away from massive Israeli concessions offered by Olmert. Reality is Olmert offered absolutely the optimum deal as envisioned by the UN and the Arab League but Abbas walked away and Hamas refuses even the concept of permanent peace.

basketcase said:

Talk about complete inversion of rerality. If Abbas actually offered everything they wanted, why did he walk away from massive Israeli concessions offered by Olmert.

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You are bullshitting.
Abbas was not given that map, as you well know.
Olmert refused to give Abbas a map at all, and Abbas had to hand draw a copy on a napkin.
Why the hell would anyone sign a deal without a map?
I'm sure you're signed on to a bunch of gas and bell contracts because people promised you things over the phone too.

More importantly, why do you refuse to tell us how you think the two state solution is possible with this US state dep map:

Frankfooter said:

You are bullshitting.
Abbas was not given that map, as you well know....

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He was shown the map, given all the details including refugees, compensation, shared Jerusalem, and a corridor to Gaza and he walked away.

And of course your Hamas terrorists heroes reject even the concept of permanent peace.

basketcase said:

He was shown the map

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He was not shown that map, that map was created by Al Jazeera.
More importantly, Olmert refused to give Abbas a copy of the map.
Now I'm sure when you're selling your used cars you also don't let people see the cars first, just sign on the dotted line and then you'll let them see and drive their new car.

You still refuse to tell us how you think the two state solution is possible with this version of apartheid Israel.

Frankfooter said:

He was not shown that map, that map was created by Al Jazeera....

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So like those organizations you pretend to support, you don't trust al Jazeera either when they report things you don't like.

He wasn't given a map to take home but the offer was made and Abbas ran away from the idea.

basketcase said:

So like those organizations you pretend to support, you don't trust al Jazeera either when they report things you don't like.

He wasn't given a map to take home but the offer was made and Abbas ran away from the idea.

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Al Jazeera clearly states that they drew that map and that Abbas was never given a map. So they are basing that map of the one Abbas drew on a napkin, since Israel wouldn't put their offer down in writing.
How many gas and phone contracts have you agreed to over the phone without ever seeing the contract?
How many used cars have you sold to people without letting them see or drive the car?
That is what you call the best offer they ever got?
Hilarious.

Meanwhile you've now admitted the two state solution is dead as you cannot even discuss the following US State Dep map that shows the apartheid one state solution is already here.

Frankfooter said:

Al Jazeera clearly states that...

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Abbas was shown the map and presented everything sensible and he walked away.

Can you explain (other than because groups like Hamas would never accept it) why Abbas walked away from the deal that everyone knows is the ideal?

basketcase said:

Abbas was shown the map

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Shown

There was never any concrete offer made because Abbas was shown a map.
Not the Al Jazeera recreation you post, but a different map that nobody has ever seen again.

There was no deal with no map.


This US State Department map shows the two state solution is impossible and what you now support is the defacto, one state, apartheid solution.

Frankfooter said:

Shown

There was never any concrete offer made because Abbas was shown a map....

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Then why does Abbas admit that he saw the map, heard THE offer, and walked away? It is amazing how many excuses you create to avoid having to accept the Israel exists and will continue to exist.

And all your map shows is what happens when the Palestinians refuse to make peace. All of that is easily reversible if they ever accept that they won't be able to destroy Israel and instead make peace.





p.s. Promoting a one state peace is just another example of your Victorian racism since the Palestinians are dead set against it, even your Hamas masters.

basketcase said:

Then why does Abbas admit that he saw the map, heard THE offer, and walked away?

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Saw

There was never any concrete offer made because Abbas was only ever shown a map, there was no official offer with a map and written out terms.
The map you post is a recreation from Al Jazeera, Abbas was never given that map.

There was no deal with no map.


This US State Department map shows the two state solution is impossible and what you now support is the defacto, one state, apartheid solution.

Frankfooter said:

Saw

There was never any concrete offer made because ...

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I love it when you say the exact opposite of the people you claim to be defending. Abbas admits he was given the offer and AJ details it. There was also nothing preventing him from producing a counter-offer (except he could never approve a peace deal alongside Israel). Okay, maybe Hamas was preventing him since they outright refuse the concept of Jews living with rights in the Middle East.

basketcase said:

I love it when you say the exact opposite of the people you claim to be defending. Abbas admits he was given the offer and AJ details it. .

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He was not given an offer.
No offer was written down.
No map was given him.



This US State Department map shows the two state solution is impossible and what you now support is the defacto, one state, apartheid solution.

Why are you so afraid to acknowledge this map?

Frankfooter said:

He was not given an offer. ...]

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Then why does Abbas say he rejected the offer?

basketcase said:

Then why does Abbas say he rejected the offer?

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Because he was not given a written offer with a map, just like a telephone companies verbal offer over the phone.
No written terms.



This US State Department map shows the two state solution is impossible and what you now support is the defacto, one state, apartheid solution.

Why are you so afraid to acknowledge this map?

Frankfooter said:

Because he was...]

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Because he knew he couldn't sell a peace deal to his party or to Hamas.

He could have easily made a counter-offer with his own map but instead he ran away and refused further negotiations.

And keep posting that stupid map. It is meaningless except to show what the Palestinian leaders have done to themselves by consistently rejecting peace simply because they refuse to live with Jews.

At least Hamas is open about their Jew hatred.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/senior-hamas-member-calls-for-ridding-palestine-of-filth-of-the-jews/

basketcase said:

And keep posting that stupid map. It is meaningless except to show what the Palestinian leaders have done to themselves by consistently rejecting peace simply because they refuse to live with Jews.

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Israel has controlled the situation for half a century, as the side that is militarily occupying the other.
Stop blaming the victims.




This US State Department map shows the two state solution is impossible and what you now support is the defacto, one state, apartheid solution.

Why are you so afraid to acknowledge this map?

Frankfooter said:

Israel has controlled the situation for half a century,...

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Sorry but Abbas (Arafat before him) and Hamas are the ones to blame because they are the ones who have spend more than 30 years rejecting the idea of peace.

Abbas rejected the ultimate deal simply since the PLO has spent decades convincing the people that they can destroy the Jewish presence. He has just done it again by rejecting the coming US peace plan before it has even been released. Obviously his (and Hamas') power is based on a continuation of the conflict.

And still waiting to hear you explain why Olmert's offer was so bad that it wasn't even worth Abbas making a response to.

basketcase said:

And keep posting that stupid map.

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This US State Department map shows the two state solution is impossible and what you now support is the defacto, one state, apartheid solution.

Why are you so afraid to acknowledge this map?

Name one peace offer the Palestinians have made or even one they've agreed with. They have themselves to blame until they give up on the idea of perpetual war

Quite simply, the Palestinians have their leadership to blame for not having their own state (and the belief their leaders, especially Hamas, have pushed on them that they can remove the Jewish presence).