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Forum Ontario Poll: 47% NDP, 33% PC, 14% Liberals

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,215
6,486
113
Room 112
People in this province are utterly stupid if this is in any way accurate. If they think the Wynne Liberal policies have been bad, wait until they see the NDP in power.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,154
2,605
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
People in this province are utterly stupid if this is in any way accurate. If they think the Wynne Liberal policies have been bad, wait until they see the NDP in power.
These results may be surprising to some: they show that NDP governments have the best fiscal record of all political parties that have formed federal or provincial government in Canada.

Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half. This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties-2/
 

SaturnFan

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
973
266
63
People in this province are utterly stupid if this is in any way accurate. If they think the Wynne Liberal policies have been bad, wait until they see the NDP in power.
Can’t help but wonder what the poll numbers would be like if Christine Elliott was elected as Party Leader. Looks like Dougie Ford as leader is going to bite the Cons big time.
 

essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
4,432
16
38
These results may be surprising to some: they show that NDP governments have the best fiscal record of all political parties that have formed federal or provincial government in Canada.

Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half. This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties-2/

Without spending too much time - you could argue with the statistics as follows: How many "political-years" has each party been in power (at Federal and Provincial level). Obviously, across the country - NDP govts have been a minority. So a far better statistic would be simply the number of balanced budgets each party has governed. Or, if you want to use percentages - the % of balanced budgets for each year governed vs the record for other parties DURING THOSE SAME YEARS.

An even better statistic would be the number of times each party has started with a deficit (when they take over Govt) and left with a balance.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
23
38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
Without spending too much time - you could argue with the statistics as follows: How many "political-years" has each party been in power (at Federal and Provincial level). Obviously, across the country - NDP govts have been a minority. So a far better statistic would be simply the number of balanced budgets each party has governed. Or, if you want to use percentages - the % of balanced budgets for each year governed vs the record for other parties DURING THOSE SAME YEARS.

An even better statistic would be the number of times each party has started with a deficit (when they take over Govt) and left with a balance.
Another question would be, how were those budgets balanced, increased revenue (taxes) , or reduced spending. NDP Alberta government might be an outlier.

This is a no lose election for me (I don’t pay taxes in Ontario). Either Ontario shoots itself in the head with an NDP tax and spend government or you get a Ford....

Comedy all around.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,681
17,857
113
Another question would be, how were those budgets balanced, increased revenue (taxes) , or reduced spending. NDP Alberta government might be an outlier.

This is a no lose election for me (I don’t pay taxes in Ontario). Either Ontario shoots itself in the head with an NDP tax and spend government or you get a Ford....

Comedy all around.
CBC has a good post that compares provincial taxes.
Ontario does well for the middle class.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-income-tax-comparison-provinces-flat-tax-1.4673337
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
70,650
69,686
113
47% of the vote in a 3-party system is a massive majority, unless the support is very weirdly distributed.

??? whether Grit-loyalist Star is trying to undercut NDP support by painting a false picture of the election and trying to create momentum AWAY from the NDP??

You know what is fucking funniest though? All those long years of the Tories attacking the shit out of Wynn in the Sun and elsewhere to knock her down to the level where she would be roadkill in a general election. And all those attack editorials and biased news articles worked a treat. And the Tories could've / should've / would've won big..... except they're so fucking stupid and incompetent that they nominated as leader possibly the only person in Ontario even more despised and hated than Wynn and they fucked away the election and handed the big win to the NDP!!!!!
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,215
6,486
113
Room 112
CBC has a good post that compares provincial taxes.
Ontario does well for the middle class.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-income-tax-comparison-provinces-flat-tax-1.4673337
I tested this in my 2017 tax program this is what I got. For a taxpayer earning $75,000 in taxable income the income taxes paid are as follows

Alberta - $15,723
BC - $14,477
Ontario - $15,614
Quebec - $18,946

So basically and Ontarian and an Albertan are in the same boat after income tax. Still the Albertan is much better off because the after tax money goes a longer way there. Housing prices are about 20% less on average. Gas is less by about $0.15-$0.20 per litre. Utilities are less by about 17% per kwh. Provincial sales taxes are non existent. User fees are less - license plate renewal Ont $120/yr, Alta. $84.45 per year. I could go on and on.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,215
6,486
113
Room 112
These results may be surprising to some: they show that NDP governments have the best fiscal record of all political parties that have formed federal or provincial government in Canada.

Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half. This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties-2/
First of all 1980 was 38 years ago, not 52. I think they meant to say 1969 which was the first NDP government in power (BC). Second the only time we had an NDP government in Ontario the provincial debt went from $35B to $91B in 5 years. That is an astronomical 260% increase. The only time the Nova Scotians had an NDP government 2009-2013, they were a fiscal disaster. 1st year budget surplus of $585M then 3 years of deficits of $259M, $304M and $694M. Since the NDP got in power in Alberta they have run deficits of $1.5B, $1.2B and projecting $685M deficit for this fiscal year. The NDP has been most successful in Manitoba but in their early years of 1981-1988 they ran deficits of $251M, $435M, $420M, $483M, $528M, $559M and $300M. However under the leadership of Gary Doer they had an impressive run of budget surpluses from 1999-2009. But after the financial collapse of that year they started running deficits again, they changed leaders and until 2016 ran up some of the largest deficits the province has seen. In BC the NDP controlled government for most of the period between 1969 and 2001. I can't find data prior to 1981 but here were their budget surplus(deficits) during that time period
1981-82: ($141M)
1982-83: ($1,241M)
1983-84: ($963M)
1988-89: $930M
1989-90: $496M
1990-91: ($667M)
1991-92: ($2,339M)
1992-93: ($1,476M)
1993-94: ($899M)
1994-95: ($228M)
1995-96: ($317M)
1996-97: ($753M)
1997-98: ($167M)
1998-99: ($961M)
1999-2000: ($1.3M)
2000-2001: $1,198M
2001-2002: ($1,035M)

That's 3 out of 17 years they ran a budget surplus. Pathetic. I'd love to see the analysis of these behindthenumbers.ca guys because it seems quite apparent to me they are using faulty data.
 

RandyAndy2

Active member
Jul 12, 2003
1,150
0
36
First of all 1980 was 38 years ago, not 52. I think they meant to say 1969 which was the first NDP government in power (BC). Second the only time we had an NDP government in Ontario the provincial debt went from $35B to $91B in 5 years. That is an astronomical 260% increase. The only time the Nova Scotians had an NDP government 2009-2013, they were a fiscal disaster. 1st year budget surplus of $585M then 3 years of deficits of $259M, $304M and $694M. Since the NDP got in power in Alberta they have run deficits of $1.5B, $1.2B and projecting $685M deficit for this fiscal year. The NDP has been most successful in Manitoba but in their early years of 1981-1988 they ran deficits of $251M, $435M, $420M, $483M, $528M, $559M and $300M. However under the leadership of Gary Doer they had an impressive run of budget surpluses from 1999-2009. But after the financial collapse of that year they started running deficits again, they changed leaders and until 2016 ran up some of the largest deficits the province has seen. In BC the NDP controlled government for most of the period between 1969 and 2001. I can't find data prior to 1981 but here were their budget surplus(deficits) during that time period
1981-82: ($141M)
1982-83: ($1,241M)
1983-84: ($963M)
1988-89: $930M
1989-90: $496M
1990-91: ($667M)
1991-92: ($2,339M)
1992-93: ($1,476M)
1993-94: ($899M)
1994-95: ($228M)
1995-96: ($317M)
1996-97: ($753M)
1997-98: ($167M)
1998-99: ($961M)
1999-2000: ($1.3M)
2000-2001: $1,198M
2001-2002: ($1,035M)

That's 3 out of 17 years they ran a budget surplus. Pathetic. I'd love to see the analysis of these behindthenumbers.ca guys because it seems quite apparent to me they are using faulty data.
Actually, in B.C. the NDP was in power only from 1972 - 75 and 1991 - 2001. With the exception of those periods the Social Credit was in power from '69 - '91 and the Liberals from 2001 - 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Columbia_general_elections

You missed Saskatchewan. This is just from what I remember, but I believe that the Allan Blakeney governments (NDP) consistently balanced their budgets, and it was only when Grant Devine (PC) took over that they ran substantial deficits. When Roy Romanow brought the NDP back to power his government brought the budget back to balance. Or so I remember.
 

RandyAndy2

Active member
Jul 12, 2003
1,150
0
36
I tested this in my 2017 tax program this is what I got. For a taxpayer earning $75,000 in taxable income the income taxes paid are as follows

Alberta - $15,723
BC - $14,477
Ontario - $15,614
Quebec - $18,946

So basically and Ontarian and an Albertan are in the same boat after income tax. Still the Albertan is much better off because the after tax money goes a longer way there. Housing prices are about 20% less on average. Gas is less by about $0.15-$0.20 per litre. Utilities are less by about 17% per kwh. Provincial sales taxes are non existent. User fees are less - license plate renewal Ont $120/yr, Alta. $84.45 per year. I could go on and on.
I believe that the reason the B.C. income tax is relatively low is because revenues from their carbon tax go to offset the income tax.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,462
5,654
113
Doug Ford isn’t “for the little guy” – he’s a mercenary for the millionaire class.

A recent episode perfectly captures the appeal of Ontario Tory leader Doug Ford. Asked about a delayed mining plan in the province’s north, this is how he answered: “If I have to hop on a bulldozer myself, we’re going to start building roads..it will benefit local people but it is also going to benefit everyone in Ontario.” The statement quickly went viral.

In a single gesture, witness the dizzying acrobatics of right-wing populism. There’s the posture of an unflinching maverick, spitting on his hands and getting the job done. There’s the plain-spoken concern for the common man and woman. And then there’s the actual result: a resource scheme that would enrich multinational corporations – who’d help themselves to a 10-year tax holiday – while trampling Indigenous rights and razing one of the last intact wild areas in Canada.

The spectacle has nevertheless dazzled most of the media. The result has been the frequent amplification of Doug Ford’s claim to be an outsider, in alliance with the “little guy,” crusading against the elite – the ones he says “drink champagne with their pinkies in the air.”

Never mind that he inherited a multi-million dollar business from his father, a conservative politician. Never mind that he has coasted on the political machinery of his brother, former Toronto Mayor Rob Ford. Never mind that he spent years as a city counsellor trying to dismantle public services, has surrounded himself with Stephen Harper’s closest advisors, and is now advancing policies that would be a Trump-like giveaway to the wealthiest. Half-baked denunciations of the elite are apparently enough to eclipse an entire career of fealty to them.

The clucking by the pundit and political class about Ford “being unfit for office” has only fed his image as an anti-elite populist. Lying, griping about rigged elections, lurching through gross lapses of knowledge: each time Ford has acted out, the shrieks have grown louder. But his swaggering defiance of the conventions of the political establishment – of civility, proper procedure, and credentialed authority – isn’t mere buffoonery. Getting attacked for it confirms – just as did for Donald Trump – his supposedly down-to-earth, rebellious status.

In case the pundits missed it: this is a pissed-off political moment. People want to vote for rebels – and care less and less how politicians are supposed to talk and behave.

They have good reason to be pissed. Over 15 years of Liberal rule in Ontario, corporate profits have hit record highs while the majority’s standard of living has bottomed out. Energy bills thanks to Hydro privatization are higher, hospital waits are longer, public transit is over-crowded, wages have stagnated, and half of Toronto struggles to pay rent, never mind the distant prospect of owning a home. Ontario has the lowest government spending of any province: this is something Premier Wynne dared to boast about. The Liberals have gone through some death-bed conversions, raising the minimum wage in the face of pressure from social movements like the Fight for $15 and Fairness. But it’s too little to alter the slide into deepening economic and racial inequality, or the perception of an aloof, indifferent government.

So it’s no surprise that when Ford thumbs his nose at the norms of status quo-politics and takes pot-shots at the elite, it resonates. Except he’s chaneling all that anger and discontent not into shaking down the elite, but into shovelling our collective wealth into their hands.

When it comes to Ford’s stated policies, the bubble of fake populism only grows larger. A tax-break for low-income earners? Alongside his roll-back of the new minimum wage, it actually leaves them poorer. The tax-break for the middle class? That would in fact benefit the most wealthy. And those corporations that whinged about a slight increase in worker’s wages? They’re getting a $1.3 billion giveaway. Welcome aboard – you’re being taken for a ride on the corporate gravy train.

Meanwhile, Ford has offered abundant signs – as Rinaldo Walcott and Naomi Klein detail – that he will scapegoat the most vulnerable. He’d restrict abortion access and replace the sex-ed curriculum, scrap a cap-and-trade climate program, and boost a mushrooming police budget. Canada’s white supremacists are cheering him on. And he’s already been caught conducting backroom talks with real-estate tycoons to open Ontario’s unique green-belt to a fire-sale of reckless development. So what was that about Ford’s folksiness? Nothing but a front for an assault on working people and the environment.

The way to win against Ford’s fake populism isn’t to hem and haw about his antics. The way to win is with a real agenda of social justice and redistribution.

The good news is that Andrea Horwath and the NDP are offering the beginnings of that alternative – and Ontarians are starting to pay attention. The party is pledging slightly higher taxes on corporations and the richest to pay for drug and dental coverage, more affordable housing and childcare, and debt relief for students; taking back Hydro into public control; making Ontario a Sanctuary province that provides access to services regardless of immigration status; and ending racist carding by police while destroying the collected data. Their program is far from perfect – and comes after years of a rightward slide – but it represents a crucial opportunity to concretely improve the lives of an overwhelming majority of Ontarians, and move the province in the right direction.

As the NDP surges in the polls, the fear-mongering has already started. The Tories and Liberals are smearing the party as “extremist,” absurdly predicting labour unions will march in “indefinite strikes,” and stoking racist fears about migrants and refugees. Expect the warnings about a potential NDP government to reach an apocalyptic pitch: businesses fleeing, the credit rate dropping, a province beset by economic chaos. It’s just a taste of the corporate pressure that will be applied to the NDP if they win – against which the only counterweight will be organized and assertive social movements.

Doug Ford is still betting that voters will be less concerned about the substance of his populism than about his shallow stunts and rhetoric. But it looks more and more likely that he might be proven wrong. Ontarians are catching on that an out-of-touch, silver-spooned con-man isn’t out to defend “the little guy” – he’s a mercenary for the millionaire class.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...guy-hes-a-mercenary-for-the-millionaire-class
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,215
6,486
113
Room 112
Actually, in B.C. the NDP was in power only from 1972 - 75 and 1991 - 2001. With the exception of those periods the Social Credit was in power from '69 - '91 and the Liberals from 2001 - 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Columbia_general_elections

You missed Saskatchewan. This is just from what I remember, but I believe that the Allan Blakeney governments (NDP) consistently balanced their budgets, and it was only when Grant Devine (PC) took over that they ran substantial deficits. When Roy Romanow brought the NDP back to power his government brought the budget back to balance. Or so I remember.
My bad I misread. And yes I erroneously excluded Sask. But let's be honest the NDP of Sask and Manitoba are pretty centrist compared to their counterparts in other provinces.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts