Thanks Brewguy
Identical situation here. Zero physical relationship after the baby was born and constant constraints on my friendships and pastimes. I stay so I can continue to be the best father I can to my kids. But my marriage is nothing more than two people who share responsibility for children. I poured my heart out to my wife, asked her what I could do to make things better and received a shrug. It left me feeling worthless and led to a deep depression. Luckily I had the support and love of some very good friends and was able to pull myself together. After years of a sexless marriage I visited an escort (Carrie Moon!) and remembered how important physical not just sexual contact can be.
We cant be sure that Lara is an actual jilted wife but I have to thank you Lara. Without your post I wouldnt have said my piece. None of us has a right to sex but we all deserve to be happy. What consenting adults do is really none of your business.
R
Incredible discussion...the key word...discussion, and as it relates to Lara's initial post..If Lara, or anyone for that matter, could have had a different discussion, even read this string as it stands now, long before marriage was a serious possibility for her to commit to, invest in...if there had been far more discussion...there'd be so much less crushing stress, needless anger, hurt and pain..etc..more energy for the good things (like sex
) Like most things in life, if we only had the context we do at the end of our lives so much sooner... If only Lara and most could head into the decision of marriage with a few of the concepts covered here (ya, no shit...imagine if you're in your 20s about to get married and each of you could "download" the context you have now about sex alone..intimacy...or even just balls out frank discussion) ... if only most marriages that have ended had better understanding and context for the issues they were facing or would face...I suspect if we didn't see the divorce rate decline, we'd see couples investing energy into their relationships far more efficiently, accurately and with greater return...say what you will about this industry (at least in this country), if this thread is any example..it could be a (controversial) vehicle to a better understanding/context alone for men and women, husbands and wives, exs...for all inside and out of it..it could/should support better discussion, understanding of far greater things in life and "unweigh" one of life's incredible pleasures. I do actually believe it's "one of the oldest industries in the world"), as brewguy highlights, it's an industry (again at least in this country) full of the range of normal people filling a healthy, normal human need, far from perfect or ideal but what is?
Epilogue Rant if you have time:
Most (of us) have traveled along in life within the "confines" of "social organization"...including monogamous heterosexual marriages. The concept still plays as the support and model for the basic evolutionary drive to perpetuate the species...renew our genetic's passports. With so many solid reasons, advantages, and values in monogamy, including all the potential and possibility of value conferring advantage to our kids, we come into the world for the most part indoctrinated with the same model of long term relationships. Even today with "split" families..we try marriage again after failure and drive towards generating and living all the value(s) derived from long term relationships (formalized as marriage or not)...what we don't talk about as part of the indoctrination with our kids or even ourselves is where the model is weak, the pitfalls. We don't talk about how some basic biological functions/needs can and will rub up against the "model"..require more than raw strength in blind faith to manage...it will require strength to discuss...
Part of those discussions have to be around how we simply are made to believe that evolved core functions like sex are wrong, even deviant if they are "exercised" outside of the model...that's it, black and white with no discussion. Both men and women are socialized to not only believe deviation is a life altering, shameful crushing act with insurmountable repercussion, but that any deviation (cheating etc) is a simple choice of right or wrong for anyone in a marriage to make. Clearly for those that have deviated in whatever form, (the case for more than 50% of marriages and agreed it's not just men) It's not a simple, black and white decision to simply cheat however one qualifies it (paying for it or not)...if it was an easy choice between yes and no, then why bother cheating...? It's not an easy choice, it is still a choice to cheat...for so many sex can be analogous to eating...it's a "must" for most hardwired into our brains...sure we don't die from not having it, having too much sex doesn't make us fat or cause health issues (if done safely), wait a second, what's my point??....right..it's not an easy choice not to pursue sex...in the context of the industry, it of course is the sole carnal reason the industry even exists...it's a very powerful need indeed. So why is the industry such a lopsided, one way flow from men to women...why is it the majority needing to pay for sex are men? Women have sex drive too right? Clearly women cheat outside of marriages...are men and women looking for the same need to be filled? As far as sex alone...are men simply weaker at making that choice to go without?
I'll leave it with this...without data to quote here (I'm sure it's been looked at..) at least part of the answer the industry being fuelled by men almost single handedly (yes all puns are intended) is because sex itself (perhaps some of the accompanied other needs like touch etc), has a far different evolutionary need for greater frequency and perhaps even variety in partner than the female side of the species...it's a "left over" hard wiring from pre-industry time
...if one considers the simple goal of survival as passing on the species genes by reproducing as it is for any and all living organisms as a prime function... as it was ours as a species competing 6M yrs ago with 20 others which we of course we're successful doing, we won, we "out produced"
.). Then we drill down a little further to the two key components and contributors in that process ...men and women have very different restrictions on how often they can pass on their genes...women can do so every nine months, men have the potential to do so multiple times a day!. So, although sex drive is certainly far more than the quantity of genetic transfer for both men and women - ...the act of sex itself, in it's frequency and possibly variability (genetic fitness) of partner for men in general is a hardwired evolutionary drive...one that was a key part to why we are here today on this thread...one that has created and supported "the industry"...one men have to deal with as it rubs up against the confines of what we're all brought up to "value" in our general modern day society...not an easy burden, but we're strong and we manage the best we can..
...so while I feel for Lara/anyone being/feeling betrayed, marriage is a two way street, a partnership, rarely is anything 100% one sided...I'd broaden your context...if men are actually not only going to the risk to fill a core need they aren't getting at home (for whatever reason at this point), they are actually paying for it too...(wtf), then don't ya think they likely value what's at home far more than just sex?? If they didn't, then you're absolutely correct, there's no reason to be in such a useless relationship...nobody here I'm sure condones just flying out the door on a whim to go fuck someone (paying for it or not) for men in a marriage/ltr isn't the path most would take...it's not even the one most would take with out sex from their partner for months on end ...at some point though for most it's a basal drive with few solutions...and for those in a marriage where sex isn't happening...(and it will happen at some point for most I'm sure) ...neither can have a head in the sand, you can't breath down there... and like eating and sex it's a necessity. Dangerous isn't Lara's ex having safe sex, dangerous is not being able to breath and marriages end. When that happens, it won't be because somebody finally cheated...it was on the edge of the "divorce cliff" long before that...you may consider calling your ex, thanking him for risking all that he did to try keep the marriage breathing.
(Disclaimer - I don't have a clue what all the details are and so if it's not obvious, using only the 2-3 posts someone named Lara(strong) made and filling in gaps with assumptions for example sake...would never ever make a comment on anyone's marriage as nobody knows except the two people in it or where in it...) ...speaking of breathing...that's a long enough post to suck the air out of the entire thread...
