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flashing red walk sign question

John Henry

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Apr 10, 2011
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Good question . I've seen that happen a few times thinking the light will turn amber but then the walk sign gives the OK to walk across the intersection.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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The walk sign flashing red sometimes means delayed walk sign but sometimes it means the light is going to change from green to red. How can you tell which it is?
If one assumes that the light will be changing to amber, then one would slow down a bit in anticipation. If it then turns out to be the delayed walk signal, it means the driver may lose 1-1.5 seconds. Non-issue.
 

WULA

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Aug 12, 2012
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Driving a vehicle on the basis of what a Walk Sign for pedestrians is signalling, is a great recipe to create a 'rear-ender'.

I have had a couple of close calls with dickhead drivers abruptly slowing to almost a stop at a green light that is staying green.

Regrettably, unless there are good witnesses and a 'with it' cop, the vehicle following will be charged with 'driving too close'.

Walk Signals are for pedestrians, whether they follow them or not. They are not meant for drivers of vehicles.
 

essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
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At more and more intersections there are magnetic sensors in the road which detect the presence of a car and send this signal to an intelligent controller. If there is no car, the walk sign will flash as it gets towards the end of it's timed sequence but because there is no car wanting to cross the main road (detected by the sensors) the traffic lights won't change and the time sequence begins anew and the walk sign changes from flashing a warning to "walk".

So if you're driving along the main road and you see the "walk" sign flashing - you know that the light is about to change. But if there are no cars waiting to cross the intersection, the light won't change IF it has intelligent sensors. The gamble is, not all intersections have this - so if you happen to speed up at an old intersection - you might end up running a red.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Driving a vehicle on the basis of what a Walk Sign for pedestrians is signalling, is a great recipe to create a 'rear-ender'.

I have had a couple of close calls with dickhead drivers abruptly slowing to almost a stop at a green light that is staying green.

Regrettably, unless there are good witnesses and a 'with it' cop, the vehicle following will be charged with 'driving too close'.

Walk Signals are for pedestrians, whether they follow them or not. They are not meant for drivers of vehicles.
Cheers for WULA!! The walk sign is for pedestrians and tells them when they are permitted to enter the crosswalk, and when they shouldn't. Drivers should ignore those signals, and pay attention to the Red-Amber-Green ones that govern car movement.

The Prime Directive to go by is: Never hit a pedestrian with your car no matter what. It applies at all times everywhere, and if you do hit one, you will have to establish that pedestrian was unexpectedly doing wrong in a way that made it impossible for you to avoid them. In the limited circumstance of the walk signals, a pedestrian has the lawful right of way as long as they are in the crosswalk and crossing at their reasonable pace, even after the signal changes. However they are only legally entitled to enter the crosswalk when the WALK signal is lit, and may be fined (but not legally hit and run over) if they do so afterwards. And in case you're wondering, the countdown is just a countdown, it has no legal status.

And to the OP: I had to puzzle out a connection between what I've seen and your description. I have seen some WALK signals in some places count down to DONT WALK and Green instead of Red for cars going the same way, which has confused me when I've been on foot, but I assumed it was to enable cars to turn left. The normal thing is for the countdown or flashing (it is not a delayed walk) to end as the Red light goes on just as you described.

Whether there's a countdown or an Orange flashing sign, you are still legal to finish your crossing even after the light has gone RED. You are only legal to step onto the road and begin crossing when the White WALK sign is lit.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Cheers for WULA!! The walk sign is for pedestrians and tells them when they are permitted to enter the crosswalk, and when they shouldn't. Drivers should ignore those signals, and pay attention to the Red-Amber-Green ones that govern car movement.
Disagree to an extent. The countdown timers are at most intersections and were placed to give drivers more of a heads up as to when the lights will be changing. As such, the driver is doing no wrong to occasionally take a quick glance at them. They should not however be a driver's main focus.
 

huckfinn

Banned from schools.....
Aug 16, 2011
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On the Credit River with Jim
Driving a vehicle on the basis of what a Walk Sign for pedestrians is signalling, is a great recipe to create a 'rear-ender'.

I have had a couple of close calls with dickhead drivers abruptly slowing to almost a stop at a green light that is staying green.

Regrettably, unless there are good witnesses and a 'with it' cop, the vehicle following will be charged with 'driving too close'.

Walk Signals are for pedestrians, whether they follow them or not. They are not meant for drivers of vehicles.
Actually if you rear-ended them you would still get charged for 'following too close' and rightly so.

It doesn't matter why they slow....you're supposed to be in control of your vehicle and not hit them.
 

Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
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At more and more intersections there are magnetic sensors in the road which detect the presence of a car and send this signal to an intelligent controller. If there is no car, the walk sign will flash as it gets towards the end of it's timed sequence but because there is no car wanting to cross the main road (detected by the sensors) the traffic lights won't change and the time sequence begins anew and the walk sign changes from flashing a warning to "walk".

So if you're driving along the main road and you see the "walk" sign flashing - you know that the light is about to change. But if there are no cars waiting to cross the intersection, the light won't change IF it has intelligent sensors. The gamble is, not all intersections have this - so if you happen to speed up at an old intersection - you might end up running a red.
Good answer. I have wondered the same thing as I use the crosswalk signal as a heads up that the light will change and then it does not.


Drivers are supposed to use the flashing count down walk signal to help them to decide to stop or not.

They have done their studies on this before putting them at every cross walk. If you think about it, it is not obvious if they will reduce accidents or increase them . They discovered they reduce intersection accidents so they quickly put them everywhere
 

JaimeWolf

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Aug 19, 2017
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Disagree to an extent. The countdown timers are at most intersections and were placed to give drivers more of a heads up as to when the lights will be changing. As such, the driver is doing no wrong to occasionally take a quick glance at them. They should not however be a driver's main focus.
They are meant for the pedestrians to gauge how much time they still have to cross, a bit more information than a flashing "don't walk" light. Nothing wrong with looking at them as a driver of course, so you can decide whether to gun it or coast down.
 

Goodoer

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Feb 20, 2004
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GTA & Thereabouts...
The instant the countdown timer begins on the pedestrian signal, it is technically illegal for a pedestrian to enter the intersection via the crosswalk. The countdown timer becomes a gauge for the motorist as to when the light is changing.

Ask a Toronto Police Officer as they do a blitz every now and then in Downtown TO... My suggestion is that you do not ignore their lesson as they'll slap you with a ticket.
 

Big Rig

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May 6, 2009
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Actually if you rear-ended them you would still get charged for 'following too close' and rightly so.

It doesn't matter why they slow....you're supposed to be in control of your vehicle and not hit them.
100%. That someone stops unexpectably is no excuse to run into them . You would be 100% at fault for hitting a stopped vehicle.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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The instant the countdown timer begins on the pedestrian signal, it is technically illegal for a pedestrian to enter the intersection via the crosswalk. The countdown timer becomes a gauge for the motorist as to when the light is changing.

Ask a Toronto Police Officer as they do a blitz every now and then in Downtown TO... My suggestion is that you do not ignore their lesson as they'll slap you with a ticket.
You are quite correct about when pedestrians are legally prohibited from entering the crosswalk, but they do NOT become 'fair-game' if they do, and the law clearly says cars must give way and let them cross if they do, even if it takes longer than the countdown.

It means legal crossing time for walkers is shortened where there's a WALK signal, but nothing changes for cars, and drivers have no greater right to proceed through the crosswalk than before.
 

The "Bone" Ranger

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Aug 5, 2006
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Disagree to an extent. The countdown timers are at most intersections and were placed to give drivers more of a heads up as to when the lights will be changing. As such, the driver is doing no wrong to occasionally take a quick glance at them. They should not however be a driver's main focus.
These fucking things are a danger more than anything - so many times they do not countdown properly - they hit zero and the light doesn't turn amber till a few seconds later. Why do they make shit that does not work properly?
 

essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
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Resurrecting this thread because I’ve notice an experiment going on in my neighbourhood (Yonge/Lawrence area). I’ve noticed that the walk signals along Yonge in this area have been programmed to count down from 15 seconds then repeat, continuously. So it might count down from 15 and repeat many times before the light actually changes. When the light IS about to change, the walk signal countdowns will NOT repeat. This has been going on for about 3 weeks now along Yonge Street. I think it’s a very bad idea. One problem I witnessed was a car waiting to turn left onto Yonge from Lawrence. I was right behind and I could see the car edging forward as the walk signal started to count down towards zero. When it was at 1, he started to turn, anticipating the light to change but it didn’t so he had to gas it to avoid being hit by an on-coming car and a pedestrian had to wait in the intersection to let him through. I also notice that pedestrians are trying to guess when the countdown will repeat vs when it actually is about to turn red. It makes crossing with the signal a guessing game. Not sure what the point of this experiment is.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
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Resurrecting this thread because I’ve notice an experiment going on in my neighbourhood (Yonge/Lawrence area). I’ve noticed that the walk signals along Yonge in this area have been programmed to count down from 15 seconds then repeat, continuously. So it might count down from 15 and repeat many times before the light actually changes. When the light IS about to change, the walk signal countdowns will NOT repeat. This has been going on for about 3 weeks now along Yonge Street. I think it’s a very bad idea. One problem I witnessed was a car waiting to turn left onto Yonge from Lawrence. I was right behind and I could see the car edging forward as the walk signal started to count down towards zero. When it was at 1, he started to turn, anticipating the light to change but it didn’t so he had to gas it to avoid being hit by an on-coming car and a pedestrian had to wait in the intersection to let him through. I also notice that pedestrians are trying to guess when the countdown will repeat vs when it actually is about to turn red. It makes crossing with the signal a guessing game. Not sure what the point of this experiment is.
At some intersections, typically low traffic ones in one direction, if cross traffic is not waiting at the light, the light will remain red and the "walk" symbol will re-trigger. That's why you sometimes get the flashing hand, returning to the walk symbol and a repeated countdown.

If cross traffic is present and it still happens, there's something faulty in the system. The countdown should not have repeated if the guy in front of you was stopped at the intersection.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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At some intersections, typically low traffic ones in one direction, if cross traffic is not waiting at the light, the light will remain red and the "walk" symbol will re-trigger. That's why you sometimes get the flashing hand, returning to the walk symbol and a repeated countdown.

If cross traffic is present and it still happens, there's something faulty in the system. The countdown should not have repeated if the guy in front of you was stopped at the intersection.
Thank you for the insight. I can see how someone sitting behind a desk might think that way and put out an instruction that should be the set up.

BUT… , and it's a big but: It is not legal for a pedestrian to enter the crosswalk during the countdown. It is ONLY legal when the white Walk sign is on; typically it's white for half as long as the countdown.

It's all very sweet that the Walk cycle repeats if there's no cross traffic, but if that is the state of things, what's the point of making the pedestrians wait for the next white Walk light? Never mind that the countdown should be during the white light.
 

jcpro

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Jan 31, 2014
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The walk/flashing hand should remain as it was before. The countdown, which is for drivers anyway, should be only visible to the oncoming cars and should be placed above the intersection.
 

essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
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At some intersections, typically low traffic ones in one direction, if cross traffic is not waiting at the light, the light will remain red and the "walk" symbol will re-trigger. That's why you sometimes get the flashing hand, returning to the walk symbol and a repeated countdown.

If cross traffic is present and it still happens, there's something faulty in the system. The countdown should not have repeated if the guy in front of you was stopped at the intersection.
I'm aware of this when it's not busy (eg: at night) and commented earlier in the thread about this. What I just descibed, above, is different. For about 3 weeks not, all the lights along a stretch of Yonge Street (north and south of Lawrence) now have walk signs that count down from 15 repeatedly, even during rushhour, even when there are cars waiting for the light to change (so typically in the past, the in-road sensors detect a car and the light changes). It's the strangest thing - I'm not sure if this is an experiement or a system malfunction.
 
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