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Hamas official: 50 of the 62 Gazans killed in border violence were our members

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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What happens on the day when you realize that backing apartheid and state terrorism is worse then backing Hamas?
That might happen if Israel starts implementing apartheid and if Hamas ever stops terrorism and the racist goal of removing Jews from the region.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/262329/gaza-media-explainer

The cacophony that accompanies every upsurge in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can make it seem impossible for outsiders to sort out the facts. Recent events in Gaza are no exception. The shrillest voices on each side are already offering their own mutually exclusive narratives that acknowledge some realities while scrupulously avoiding others.

But while certain facts about Gaza may be inconvenient for the loudest partisans on either side, they should not be inconvenient to the rest of us.

To that end, here are 13 complicated, messy, true things about what has been happening in Gaza. They do not conform to one political narrative or another, and they do not attempt to conclusively apportion all blame. Try, as best you can, to hold them all in your mind at the same time.

1. The protests on Monday were not about President Donald Trump moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, and have in fact been occurring weekly on the Gaza border since March. They are part of what the demonstrators have dubbed “The Great March of Return”—return, that is, to what is now Israel. (The Monday demonstration was scheduled months ago to coincide with Nakba Day, an annual occasion of protest; it was later moved up 24 hours to grab some of the media attention devoted to the embassy.) The fact that these long-standing Palestinian protests were mischaracterized by many in the media as simply a response to Trump obscured two disquieting realities: First, that the world has largely dismissed the genuine plight of Palestinians in Gaza, only bothering to pay attention to it when it could be tenuously connected to Trump. Second, that many Palestinians do not simply desire their own state and an end to the occupation and settlements that began in 1967, but an end to the Jewish state that began in 1948.

2. The Israeli blockade of Gaza goes well beyond what is necessary for Israel’s security, and in many cases can be capricious and self-defeating. Import and export restrictions on food and produce have seesawed over the years, with what is permitted one year forbidden the next, making it difficult for Gazan farmers to plan for the future. Restrictions on movement between Gaza, the West Bank, and beyond can be similarly overbroad, preventing not simply potential terrorist operatives from traveling, but families and students. In one of the more infamous instances, the U.S. State Department was forced to withdraw all Fulbright awards to students in Gaza after Israel did not grant them permission to leave. Today, official policy bars Gazans from traveling abroad unless they commit to not returning for a full year. It is past time that these issues be addressed, as outlined in part in a new letter from several prominent senators, including Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

3. Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, is an authoritarian, theocratic regime that has called for Jewish genocide in its charter, murdered scores of Israeli civilians, repressed Palestinian women, and harshly persecuted religious and sexual minorities. It is a designated terrorist group by the United States, Canada, and the European Union.

4. The overbearing Israeli blockade has helped impoverish Gaza. So has Hamas’s utter failure to govern and provide for the basic needs of the enclave’s people. Whether it has been spending its manpower and millions of dollars on subterranean attack tunnels into Israel—including under United Nations schools for Gaza’s children—or launching repeated messianic military operations against Israel, the terrorist group has consistently prioritized the deaths of Israelis over the lives of its Palestinian brethren.

5. Many of the thousands of protesters on the Gaza border, both on Monday and in weeks previous, were peaceful and unarmed, as anyone looking at the photos and videos of the gatherings can see.

6. Hamas manipulated many of these demonstrators into unwittingly rushing the Israeli border fence under false pretenses in order to produce injuries and fatalities. As the New York Times reported, “After midday prayers, clerics and leaders of militant factions in Gaza, led by Hamas, urged thousands of worshipers to join the protests. The fence had already been breached, they said falsely, claiming Palestinians were flooding into Israel.” Similarly, the Washington Post recounted how “organizers urged protesters over loudspeakers to burst through the fence, telling them Israeli soldiers were fleeing their positions, even as they were reinforcing them.” Hamas has also publicly acknowledged deliberately using peaceful civilians at the protests as cover and cannon fodder for their military operations. “When we talk about ‘peaceful resistance,’ we are deceiving the public,” Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar told an interviewer. “This is peaceful resistance bolstered by a military force and by security agencies.”

7. A significant number of the protesters were armed, which is how they did things like this:

Widely circulated Arabic instructions on Facebook directed protesters to “bring a knife, dagger, or gun if available” and to breach the Israeli border and kidnap civilians. (The posts have now been removed by Facebook for inciting violence but a cached copy can be viewed here.) Hamas further incentivized violence by providing payments to those injured and the families of those killed. Both Hamas and the Islamic Jihad terror group have since claimed many of those killed as their own operatives and posted photos of them in uniform. On Wednesday, Hamas Political Bureau member Salah Al-Bardawil announced that 50 of the 62 fatalities were Hamas members.

Contrary to certain Israeli talking points, however, these facts do not automatically justify any particular Israeli response or every Palestinian casualty or injury. They simply establish the reality of the threat.

8. It is facile to argue that Gazans should be protesting Hamas and its misrule instead of Israel. One, it is not a binary choice, as both actors have contributed to Gaza’s misery. Two, as the BBC’s Julia MacFarlane recalled from her time covering Gaza, any public dissent against Hamas is perilous: “A boy I met in Gaza during the 2014 war was dragged from his bed at midnight, had his kneecaps shot off in a square and was told next time it would be axes—for an anti-Hamas Facebook post.” The group has publicly executed those it deems “collaborators” and broken up rare protests with gunfire. Likewise, Gazans cannot “vote Hamas out” because Hamas has not permitted elections since it won them and took power in 2006. The group fares poorly in the polls today, but Gazans have no recourse for expressing their dissatisfaction. Protesting Israel, however, is an outlet for frustration encouraged by Hamas.

9. In that regard, Hamas has worked to increase chaos and casualties stemming from the protests by allowing rioters to repeatedly set fire to the Kerem Shalom crossing, Gaza’s main avenue for international and humanitarian aid, and by turning back trucks of needed food and supplies from Israel.

10. A lot of what you’re seeing on social media about what is transpiring in Gaza isn’t actually true. For instance, a video of a Palestinian “martyr” allegedly moving under his shroud that is circulating in pro-Israel circles is actually a 4-year old clip from Egypt. Likewise, despite the claims of viral tweets and the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry that were initially parroted by some in the media, Israel did not actually kill an 8-month old baby with tear gas. The Gazan doctor who treated her told the Associated Press that she died from a preexisting heart condition, a fact belatedly picked up by the New York Times and Los Angeles Times. In the era of fake news, readers should be especially vigilant about resharing unconfirmed content simply because it confirms their biases.

11. There are constructive solutions to Gaza’s problems that would alleviate the plight of its Palestinian population while assuaging the security concerns of Israelis. However, these useful proposals do not go viral like angry tweets ranting about how Palestinians are all de facto terrorists or Israelis are the new Nazis, which is one reason why you probably have never heard of them.

12. A truly independent, respected inquiry into Israel’s tactics and rules of engagement in Gaza is necessary to ensure any abuses are punished and create internationally recognized guidelines for how Israel and other state actors should deal with these situations on their borders. The United Nations, which annually condemns Israel in its General Assembly and Human Rights Council more than all other countries combined, and whose notorious bias against Israel was famously condemned by Obama ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power, clearly lacks the credibility to administer such an inquiry. Between America, Canada, and Europe, however, it should be possible to create one.

13. But because the entire debate around Israel’s conduct has been framed by absolutists who insist either that Israel is utterly blameless or that Israel is wantonly massacring random Palestinians for sport, a reasonable inquiry into what it did correctly and what it did not is unlikely to happen.
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
Hamas actively enlisted support for the violent riots and attempted infiltrations into Israeli territory along the Gaza border over the past seven weeks, and then used the ensuing violence to deceive Western leaders and media outlets, Israel’s top military spokesman has claimed in a new Wall Street Journal piece.

Writing in the Journal Sunday, Brig. Gen. Ronen Manelis, the IDF’s chief spokesman, detailed Hamas’ efforts to provoke clashes between Israeli security personnel and rioters on the border, paying Gazans to flood the Israel-Gaza border in an attempt to breach Israel’s security fence and force their way into Israeli territory.


MainAll NewsInside Israel'Hamas lied, Gaza rioters died'

'Hamas lied, Gaza rioters died'
Top IDF spokesman says even Hamas has admitted it lied about claims riots on Israel's border were 'peaceful resistance'.

Contact Editor Arutz Sheva Staff, 21/05/18 08:41
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Rioting on Gaza borderRioting on Gaza borderAbed Rahim Khatib/Flash90

Hamas actively enlisted support for the violent riots and attempted infiltrations into Israeli territory along the Gaza border over the past seven weeks, and then used the ensuing violence to deceive Western leaders and media outlets, Israel’s top military spokesman has claimed in a new Wall Street Journal piece.

Writing in the Journal Sunday, Brig. Gen. Ronen Manelis, the IDF’s chief spokesman, detailed Hamas’ efforts to provoke clashes between Israeli security personnel and rioters on the border, paying Gazans to flood the Israel-Gaza border in an attempt to breach Israel’s security fence and force their way into Israeli territory.

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The riots, which began on March 30th, were dubbed the “March of Return”, were organized by the High Coordination Committee for the March of Return, a body dominated by members of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups.

Hamas, Manelis noted, bused rioters to the Israel-Gaza frontier, paying rioters $14 a person to join in the clashes. The terror group even encouraged women and children to participate, paying $100 to families which came together to the riots. The terror group even subsidized injuries – paying out $500 to those wounded while attempting to breach the Israeli border.

Meanwhile, plainclothes Hamas terrorists mingled with the crowd, inciting violence and leading armed charges of the Israeli border while carrying “machine guns, Molotov cocktails…improvised explosive devices, and grenades”.

While Hamas and its supporters used the resulting violence, which left more 110 rioters dead, including roughly 60 fatalities last Monday, the terror group has been surprisingly candid at times regarding the campaign to breach the Israeli border.

On May 16th, just days after more than 60 rioters were killed attempting to breach the Israeli border fence, senior Hamas leader Salah Bardawil admitted that of the estimated 62 fatalities “50 of them were Hamas”. Others were identified as members of rival terror groups, including Islamic Jihad – disproving the narrative adopted by Israel’s critics in the West that the IDF was using “excessive force” against peaceful civilian demonstrators.

Manelis cited another senior Hamas leader, Mahmoud Al-Zahar, who on May 13th admitted in an Al Jazeera interview that claims that the riots on the Israeli border were “peaceful resistance” were false.

“When we talk about ‘peaceful resistance,’ we are deceiving the public,” said Al-Zahar.

Despite this admissions, Manelis argued, some Western media outlets continued to push the narrative favored by Hamas “by publishing its lies rather than the facts”.

A day after the most intense clashes on the Israel-Gaza border, the New York-based Daily News blasted not only Israel, but the Trump administration as well for unveiling the new US embassy in Jerusalem Monday, while Gaza rioters attempted to breach the security fence.

Other outlets dropped reference to the violent nature of the Gaza riots from their headlines, with Yahoo News publishing an article Tuesday with the headline: “Israeli forces kill dozens in Gaza as U.S. Embassy opens in Jerusalem”.

One New York Times headline created a similar narrative: “Israel Kills Dozens at Gaza Border as U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem”

Days later, Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas) chastised the media over its coverage of the riots.

“In these battles for survival that Israel faces daily, we can count on global media elites acting as little more than propaganda arms for Hamas and other terrorists,” Cruz said Thursday.

“I direct you to the front page of the New York Times from this week. The New York Times’headline, ‘Israel Kills Dozens at Gaza Border as U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem’. Now anyone reading this headline [might think] - ‘Goodness gracious. Why are the Israelis murdering people?’ That’s what the New York Times says. One takes from the coverage apparently poor, innocent, unarmed people are being shot for no reason by Israel. That’s certainly what the global media elite are portraying.”

“What are the actual facts? You remember facts. The things that used to be reported when journalists were actually being journalists and not propagandists. Well let’s talk about the facts.”


https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/246217
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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No, its the government of Israel that is committing terrorism here,...
Strange. Looking at the Canadian list of designated terrorist entities, I see Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Fatah's armed wing but Israel isn't on that list.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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And look at you once again denying Hamas are terrorists.
Why don't you join me in supporting the ICC investigating and finding out which side has been committing war crimes and terrorism?
Are you that afraid of the rule of law?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
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Why don't you join me in supporting the ICC investigating and finding out which side has been committing war crimes and terrorism?
Are you that afraid of the rule of law?
Why don't you join me and the Canadian government in calling Hamas a terrorist entity?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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There has been no Israeli rule in Gaza for a decade and a half. I'm sure that the people in the West Bank are happy they live under PA or Israeli rule becaus etheir standard of living is light years ahead of what Hamas has achieved.

And the people who have (for the time being) have destroyed Palestine are Jordan and Egypt who stole the Palestinian state and the Palestinian leaders who refuse to accept a state if it means living alongside Israel.
If you control the borders you are either conducting a siege, or ruling. Lets not pretend that Israel has washed its hands over gaza.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Why don't you join me and the Canadian government in calling Hamas a terrorist entity?
Why don't you join me and the UN in supporting investigations into Israel's massacre of civilians protesting for their rights.

Mr Zeid slammed the “appalling” recent events in Gaza and called for the occupation of Palestine by Israel to end.

He said the 1.9 million people living in Gaza had been denied human rights by Israeli authorities and described those living in the Palestinian enclave as “caged in a toxic slum from birth to death”.

“They are, in essence, caged in a toxic slum from birth to death; deprived of dignity; dehumanised by the Israeli authorities to such a point it appears officials do not even consider that these men and women have a right, as well as every reason, to protest,” he said.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nvestigate-border-deaths-sniper-a8357981.html
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Why don't you join me and the Canadian government in calling Hamas a terrorist entity?
Why don't you join me in standing against terrorism committed by either side?
Why don't you stop using hate speech and instead support equal rights and the rule of law?

Why do you support this?
The film includes a brief clip of young Israelis in Tel Aviv celebrating the assault on Gaza, a reminder that toxic racism and militarism infect Israeli society.

“Die! Die! Bye!” laughing teenage girls shout at the celebration in Tel Aviv. “Bye, Palestine!”

“Fucking Arabs! Fuck Muhammad!” a young man yells.

“Gaza is a graveyard! Gaza is a graveyard! Ole, ole, ole, ole,” the crowd in Tel Aviv sings as it dances in jubilation. “There is no school tomorrow! There are no children left in Gaza!”

Terrified Palestinian families huddled inside their homes as Israel dropped more than 100 one-ton bombs and fired thousands of high-explosive artillery shells into Shuja’iyya. Those who tried to escape in the face of the advancing Israelis often were gunned down with their hands in the air, and the bodies were left to rot in the scorching heat for days.
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/killinggaza
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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50 of the 62 Gazans killed in border violence were our members
Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kill some more Hamas members!!!!

Make Frankie cry!!!!
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,138
3,573
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Why don't you join me in standing against terrorism committed by either side?
Why don't you stop using hate speech and instead support equal rights and the rule of law?

Why do you support this?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Strange. Looking at the Canadian list of designated terrorist entities, I see Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Fatah's armed wing but Israel isn't on that list
Funny how that works, isnt it????

Oh wait......
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,138
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Your support of apartheid through a policy of shooting civilians really pins you down as a right wing extremist more dangerous to our country then Islamic terrorists
Nowhere have I ever said killing civilians is okay, try harder Frankie :wave:
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kill some more Hamas members!!!!

Make Frankie cry!!!!
Nowhere have I ever said killing civilians is okay, try harder Frankie :wave:
Didn't have to try very hard at all, really.
Remember, here's the eye witness account of the Canadian doctor who you just cheered for being shot.
Any doctor will tell you that a peaceful protester shouldn't be summarily executed.

Nobody was armed, from what I saw. Everybody was there peacefully.

Yes, some Palestinians threw rocks. Some Palestinians burned tires. I've frankly seen worse in downtown Toronto protests.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...s-he-was-clearly-marked-as-a-doctor-1.4663689
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,138
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Does that mean that you believe all 13,000 Gazan's wounded or killed by Israeli soldiers were Hamas members?
You're starting to lose it, groggy.

I dont condone killing of civilians, I do however love it when Hamas loses members
 

Liminal

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2003
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You're starting to lose it, groggy.

I dont condone killing of civilians, I do however love it when Hamas loses members
Hey, that's great that you don't condone the killing of civilians. But, that's not the question.


Do you think that all 13,000 Gazan's killed or wounded by Israeli soldiers were Hamas members?
 
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