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Melting Arctic Sea Ice May Be To Blame For Endless Winter: Scientists

Charlemagne

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Jul 19, 2017
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04/17/2018 13:29 EDT

Melting Arctic Sea Ice May Be To Blame For Endless Winter: ScientistsIt's an increasingly accepted theory among climatologists.

Bob Weber Canadian Press

THE CANADIAN PRESS/COLE BURSTON

Workers examine a hole in top of the Rogers Centre as the area around the CN Tower is closed off due to reports of falling ice in Toronto on April 16, 2018.

Scientists are suspecting that not enough winter in the Arctic has led to too much of it across the rest of Canada.

From Toronto, where ice storms cancelled baseball games, to Calgary where residents this week faced yet another heavy snowfall warning, April 2018 has come to feel like endless winter.

Some climatologists say this is the future — long stretches of freakishly unseasonable weather that flip to something else on a dime.

'From one extreme to the other'

"It was looking like it was going to be the warmest December on record in Western Canada,'' said David Phillips, Environment Canada's chief climatologist.

"Then it turned on you — several days of -30 C. It was from one extreme to the other.''

In Ontario, Ottawa's warmest day so far this year was on Jan. 12 when the temperature hit double digits. That hasn't happened since.

JUSTIN TANG/THE CANADIAN PRESSA man passes ice laden trees as a storm brings freezing rain in Ottawa on April 16, 2018.

"They had their spring in February,'' Phillips said.

The East Coast endured five massive nor'easter storms in three weeks.

Why? Icy Arctic air is normally held back by a strong, high-altitude, west-to-east river of air called the jet stream.

The jet stream is powered by the temperature difference between the Arctic and mid-latitudes. But the Arctic is warming faster than anywhere on Earth, especially this year, when temperatures at the North Pole were up to 30 degrees above normal.

When the jet weakens, it tends to take these bigger north and south swings.Jennifer Francis

That weakens the jet stream. And that, said Rutgers University climatologist Jennifer Francis, is the problem.

"When the jet weakens, it tends to take these bigger north and south swings,'' she said.

"When it takes one of these big southern swings, it allows all that Arctic cold air to plunge much farther south than it normally would and it tends to stick around there longer.''

Hence, ice storms in April.

Other factors at play

It's not quite that simple. There are multi-year temperature cycles in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans that have their own impact. The Gulf Stream, which used to reliably move warm water around the Atlantic, is weakening. And this was a La Nina year, when lower sea and air temperatures in the Pacific brought more cold and snow to much of North America.

Many scientists aren't completely comfortable directly linking melting sea ice and weather.

"There is likely some connection, especially early in the winter,'' said Faron Anslow, a climatologist at the University of Victoria.

"It's being studied, and single events or even sequences of events can't be tied to that cause yet.''

Phillips, who called this winter unique in his 50 years of experience, believes there's something to the link.

"There's so many different factors at play. But I think it comes down to that very simple reason why the jet stream is wobbly rather than straight — the gradient of temperatures between the north and south is less.

"That is the major climate control to the position of the jet stream. And when it weakens, it wobbles.''

I don't think you'd find a scientist who'd say there's nothing going on.Jennifer Francis

Evidence for a sea-ice link is building and at least 15 recent papers have found a connection, Francis said.

"I don't think you'd find a scientist who'd say there's nothing going on. The events that we've seen in the last few years are very consistent with what we'd expect.''

Arctic sea ice isn't recovering. So if the effect on southern weather is real, look for more of the same, said Phillips.

"It's the preview of what we're going to see. The circulation has changed. It's almost a fundamental change in our weather.''

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/17/endless-winter-arctic-ice_a_23413520/?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,590
1,193
113
Endless winter? Did people forget we had an early spring in late February / early March? This is the first winter I can remember where there was no snow on the ground where I live at the end of February!
 

renuck

New member
May 12, 2017
374
2
0
Everything I've read on this (which isn't a whole lot) basically says the climate change is changing the weather unpredictably. Arctic winds, ocean currents, etc. were stable for a long time and now are not. The term "global warming" seems to imply to everyone that everywhere is getting warmer. The global average is rising and the ice caps seem to be taking the biggest hit but that doesn't mean it will be warmer at my house today. This extreme and unpredictable weather is the new normal.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,733
17,567
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Everything I've read on this (which isn't a whole lot) basically says the climate change is changing the weather unpredictably. Arctic winds, ocean currents, etc. were stable for a long time and now are not. The term "global warming" seems to imply to everyone that everywhere is getting warmer. The global average is rising and the ice caps seem to be taking the biggest hit but that doesn't mean it will be warmer at my house today. This extreme and unpredictable weather is the new normal.
Exactly, the system is changing, while the planet is generally heating up that also means possible drastic local changes.
The biggest worry for us up here should be the slowing down of the AMOC, the 'great conveyor' current that has kept the UK and our East Coast temperatures moderate.
Nature just put out an article stating that the current has slowed down.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...antics-circulation-is-weakest-in-1-600-years/
The big worry is that the AMOC has a history of geologically sudden shutdowns, which lead to massive shifts in the climate.
Realclimate also discusses that study and couple of others.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...or-a-weaker-atlantic-overturning-circulation/
 

Fathammer

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
961
0
0
04/17/2018 13:29 EDT

Melting Arctic Sea Ice May Be To Blame For Endless Winter: ScientistsIt's an increasingly accepted theory among climatologists.

Bob Weber Canadian Press

THE CANADIAN PRESS/COLE BURSTON

Workers examine a hole in top of the Rogers Centre as the area around the CN Tower is closed off due to reports of falling ice in Toronto on April 16, 2018.

Scientists are suspecting that not enough winter in the Arctic has led to too much of it across the rest of Canada.

From Toronto, where ice storms cancelled baseball games, to Calgary where residents this week faced yet another heavy snowfall warning, April 2018 has come to feel like endless winter.

Some climatologists say this is the future — long stretches of freakishly unseasonable weather that flip to something else on a dime.

'From one extreme to the other'

"It was looking like it was going to be the warmest December on record in Western Canada,'' said David Phillips, Environment Canada's chief climatologist.

"Then it turned on you — several days of -30 C. It was from one extreme to the other.''

In Ontario, Ottawa's warmest day so far this year was on Jan. 12 when the temperature hit double digits. That hasn't happened since.

JUSTIN TANG/THE CANADIAN PRESSA man passes ice laden trees as a storm brings freezing rain in Ottawa on April 16, 2018.

"They had their spring in February,'' Phillips said.

The East Coast endured five massive nor'easter storms in three weeks.

Why? Icy Arctic air is normally held back by a strong, high-altitude, west-to-east river of air called the jet stream.

The jet stream is powered by the temperature difference between the Arctic and mid-latitudes. But the Arctic is warming faster than anywhere on Earth, especially this year, when temperatures at the North Pole were up to 30 degrees above normal.

When the jet weakens, it tends to take these bigger north and south swings.Jennifer Francis

That weakens the jet stream. And that, said Rutgers University climatologist Jennifer Francis, is the problem.

"When the jet weakens, it tends to take these bigger north and south swings,'' she said.

"When it takes one of these big southern swings, it allows all that Arctic cold air to plunge much farther south than it normally would and it tends to stick around there longer.''

Hence, ice storms in April.

Other factors at play

It's not quite that simple. There are multi-year temperature cycles in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans that have their own impact. The Gulf Stream, which used to reliably move warm water around the Atlantic, is weakening. And this was a La Nina year, when lower sea and air temperatures in the Pacific brought more cold and snow to much of North America.

Many scientists aren't completely comfortable directly linking melting sea ice and weather.

"There is likely some connection, especially early in the winter,'' said Faron Anslow, a climatologist at the University of Victoria.

"It's being studied, and single events or even sequences of events can't be tied to that cause yet.''

Phillips, who called this winter unique in his 50 years of experience, believes there's something to the link.

"There's so many different factors at play. But I think it comes down to that very simple reason why the jet stream is wobbly rather than straight — the gradient of temperatures between the north and south is less.

"That is the major climate control to the position of the jet stream. And when it weakens, it wobbles.''

I don't think you'd find a scientist who'd say there's nothing going on.Jennifer Francis

Evidence for a sea-ice link is building and at least 15 recent papers have found a connection, Francis said.

"I don't think you'd find a scientist who'd say there's nothing going on. The events that we've seen in the last few years are very consistent with what we'd expect.''

Arctic sea ice isn't recovering. So if the effect on southern weather is real, look for more of the same, said Phillips.

"It's the preview of what we're going to see. The circulation has changed. It's almost a fundamental change in our weather.''

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/17/endless-winter-arctic-ice_a_23413520/?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001
Endless winter? Did people forget we had an early spring in late February / early March? This is the first winter I can remember where there was no snow on the ground where I live at the end of February!
Exactly, the system is changing, while the planet is generally heating up that also means possible drastic local changes.
The biggest worry for us up here should be the slowing down of the AMOC, the 'great conveyor' current that has kept the UK and our East Coast temperatures moderate.
Nature just put out an article stating that the current has slowed down.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...antics-circulation-is-weakest-in-1-600-years/
The big worry is that the AMOC has a history of geologically sudden shutdowns, which lead to massive shifts in the climate.
Realclimate also discusses that study and couple of others.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...or-a-weaker-atlantic-overturning-circulation/
WOW, all this scientific evidence or proof yet nobody has the answer yet?

How about you experts look up what HAARP is and does.

While you're at it, it wouldnt hurt to educate yourselves on GEOENGINEERING.

all proven by govt and scientists. Why arent those used as "scientific evidence"?
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
9,253
7,196
113
I think these scientist really have no idea what they are talking about. I have no doubt that they will say whatever the people paying their salary tells them to say.These are the same people who say the planet was alot warmer back in the dinosaur days than it is now.
They are clueless as far as I am concerned.

The weather is what it is.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
2,929
7
38
So when the weather gets hotter, it's due to global warming.

And when it gets colder and winter lingers around, it's due to global warming.

lol
 

renuck

New member
May 12, 2017
374
2
0
WOW, all this scientific evidence or proof yet nobody has the answer yet?

How about you experts look up what HAARP is and does.

While you're at it, it wouldnt hurt to educate yourselves on GEOENGINEERING.

all proven by govt and scientists. Why arent those used as "scientific evidence"?
LINK
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,094
2,592
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
“the common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.” – club of rome the first global revolution
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,703
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Yawn... what will these climate scientists come up with next...
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
23
38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
When it’s it, it’s global warming
When it’s cold it’s global warming
When it’s dry, it’s global warming
When is wet, it’s global warming

When sea levels don’t rise as much as predicted, it’s the sea floor sinking

I’m not a scientist and I’m not questioning the science. The politics of this is true believers running around with a hammer pounding in screws and riviots.
 

Promo

Active member
Jan 10, 2009
2,480
0
36
How about you experts look up what HAARP is and does.
What is your opinion on what HAARP is and does? Actually the word is "did". The military pulled out of HAARP in 2014/15, removed most of the diesel generators and now the University of Alaska rents out the instrumentation for atmospheric research. The antenna farm is still intact, but can only put out a fraction of its former power.

I never really understood many of the conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP. The facility allowed tours and often university proffs/students were in attendance during tests. Allot of very bright technical people poking about the place yet no-one ever discovered anything nefarious? The antennas were easily viewable, since the lengths and orientations are measurable, mathematically the frequencies involved could be calculated and the propagation and impact of those frequencies are well known.

I've read the theories about heating the ionosphere for weather control, or using ULF for submarine detection and tracking, or the ability to shift or reverse the earth's magnetic field (or Van Allen Radiation Belt), but my favourite was Jesse "The Body" Ventura's theory that HAARP was a giant mind control device (Jesse looked great in that tin hat!). I've also read the materials and Google Earth view of the British, Chinese and Russian versions of HAARP. <-- Hey, it might not be a evil mind control device, but it's still a cool place worth reading about.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22hoz1

My theory is that's it's a communication facility for aliens in deep space. You know, the ones that built the pyramids, gave us the transistor and killed JFK.
 

Fathammer

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
961
0
0
What is your opinion on what HAARP is and does? Actually the word is "did". The military pulled out of HAARP in 2014/15, removed most of the diesel generators and now the University of Alaska rents out the instrumentation for atmospheric research. The antenna farm is still intact, but can only put out a fraction of its former power.

I never really understood many of the conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP. The facility allowed tours and often university proffs/students were in attendance during tests. Allot of very bright technical people poking about the place yet no-one ever discovered anything nefarious? The antennas were easily viewable, since the lengths and orientations are measurable, mathematically the frequencies involved could be calculated and the propagation and impact of those frequencies are well known.

I've read the theories about heating the ionosphere for weather control, or using ULF for submarine detection and tracking, or the ability to shift or reverse the earth's magnetic field (or Van Allen Radiation Belt), but my favourite was Jesse "The Body" Ventura's theory that HAARP was a giant mind control device (Jesse looked great in that tin hat!). I've also read the materials and Google Earth view of the British, Chinese and Russian versions of HAARP. <-- Hey, it might not be a evil mind control device, but it's still a cool place worth reading about.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22hoz1

My theory is that's it's a communication facility for aliens in deep space. You know, the ones that built the pyramids, gave us the transistor and killed JFK.
Its funny that most of the countries with HARRP towers are also the same countries that are part of the "Paris accord" isnt it?

What would the purpose of all these towers be and why soo many?

The best way to hide something is to put it plain site.

You havent mentioned anything about Geoengineering. any smart comments about that or is it a conspiracy as well? The govt admits to it.
 

Promo

Active member
Jan 10, 2009
2,480
0
36
You misunderstand, I love good conspiracy theories and I spend time researching them. I prefer the technology based theories (9/11, alien bases, captured alien technology, HAARP, tunnels under Peru, Military arctic research bases, etc), so that's why I've previously read-up on HAARP. But being a techie I have a slight understanding of the technology and HAARP is not mind control machine. I actually thought the submarine detection and tracking theory was pretty cool as very low frequencies can indeed penetrate deeply into water and travel long distances - navy uses VLF for submarine communications. Weather control machine - lol..

Why aren't you telling us what you think HAARP is (or more accurately - was).

Its funny that most of the countries with HARRP towers are also the same countries that are part of the "Paris accord" isnt it?
All 4 of them? Ummm, almost every country on the planet is signed on to the Paris Agreement. Makes your observation meaningless.

What would the purpose of all these towers be and why soo many?
I already know what the stated purpose of the towers and I gave you my own theory. I know what Jesse Ventura thinks the towers are for.

Do you understand why CFRB (for example) has a large field of transmitters to support their radio broadcasts vs just one tower? The reason is a function of frequencies, power, desired range, signal modulation type, etc. Some like height, others like area, others like power. Sometimes you use a large array so that you can electronically steer the signal.

The best way to hide something is to put it plain site.
HOW CRAFTY! I'll bet when the military packed up and took their diesel generators with them, they left behind, hidden in plain sight an alien fusion reactor that powers the facility with warp plasma.

You havent mentioned anything about Geoengineering. any smart comments about that or is it a conspiracy as well? The govt admits to it.
Cause I lost interest. Why wouldn't the government be looking into geoengineering? It's the responsible thing to do. If science could master the technology they could prevent hurricanes, droughts, improve crop yields, etc. Sure it could be a weapon of war, but so can pretty much every other advanced technology. I try not to be too cynical, but better we have it than the Russians.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
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38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com


Just saying
 

PornAddict

Active member
Aug 30, 2009
3,620
0
36
60
Yes. Both statements are correct.
You can watch this video ...

Climate warming chart absoutely torn apart.. This video show how they trick & lied & misled you . You can see what they did to the global warming chart!!


Pat&Stu took this graph from Obama's Science Adviser, Dr. Holdren, and completely blew it to pieces!





you can learn something from it and share it with your climate alarmist

Your climate alarmist have a chicken little mentality!!
(" The sky is falling run for your life")
 

PornAddict

Active member
Aug 30, 2009
3,620
0
36
60
So when the weather gets hotter, it's due to global warming.

And when it gets colder and winter lingers around, it's due to global warming.

lol
LoL


remember the global cooling scares in the 1970s?




[/QUOTE]
 

PornAddict

Active member
Aug 30, 2009
3,620
0
36
60
04/17/2018 13:29 EDT

Melting Arctic Sea Ice May Be To Blame For Endless Winter: ScientistsIt's an increasingly accepted theory among climatologists.

Bob Weber Canadian Press

THE CANADIAN PRESS/COLE BURSTON

Workers examine a hole in top of the Rogers Centre as the area around the CN Tower is closed off due to reports of falling ice in Toronto on April 16, 2018.

Scientists are suspecting that not enough winter in the Arctic has led to too much of it across the rest of Canada.

From Toronto, where ice storms cancelled baseball games, to Calgary where residents this week faced yet another heavy snowfall warning, April 2018 has come to feel like endless winter.

Some climatologists say this is the future — long stretches of freakishly unseasonable weather that flip to something else on a dime.

'From one extreme to the other'

"It was looking like it was going to be the warmest December on record in Western Canada,'' said David Phillips, Environment Canada's chief climatologist.

"Then it turned on you — several days of -30 C. It was from one extreme to the other.''

In Ontario, Ottawa's warmest day so far this year was on Jan. 12 when the temperature hit double digits. That hasn't happened since.

JUSTIN TANG/THE CANADIAN PRESSA man passes ice laden trees as a storm brings freezing rain in Ottawa on April 16, 2018.

"They had their spring in February,'' Phillips said.

The East Coast endured five massive nor'easter storms in three weeks.

Why? Icy Arctic air is normally held back by a strong, high-altitude, west-to-east river of air called the jet stream.

The jet stream is powered by the temperature difference between the Arctic and mid-latitudes. But the Arctic is warming faster than anywhere on Earth, especially this year, when temperatures at the North Pole were up to 30 degrees above normal.

When the jet weakens, it tends to take these bigger north and south swings.Jennifer Francis

That weakens the jet stream. And that, said Rutgers University climatologist Jennifer Francis, is the problem.

"When the jet weakens, it tends to take these bigger north and south swings,'' she said.

"When it takes one of these big southern swings, it allows all that Arctic cold air to plunge much farther south than it normally would and it tends to stick around there longer.''

Hence, ice storms in April.

Other factors at play

It's not quite that simple. There are multi-year temperature cycles in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans that have their own impact. The Gulf Stream, which used to reliably move warm water around the Atlantic, is weakening. And this was a La Nina year, when lower sea and air temperatures in the Pacific brought more cold and snow to much of North America.

Many scientists aren't completely comfortable directly linking melting sea ice and weather.

"There is likely some connection, especially early in the winter,'' said Faron Anslow, a climatologist at the University of Victoria.

"It's being studied, and single events or even sequences of events can't be tied to that cause yet.''

Phillips, who called this winter unique in his 50 years of experience, believes there's something to the link.

"There's so many different factors at play. But I think it comes down to that very simple reason why the jet stream is wobbly rather than straight — the gradient of temperatures between the north and south is less.

"That is the major climate control to the position of the jet stream. And when it weakens, it wobbles.''

I don't think you'd find a scientist who'd say there's nothing going on.Jennifer Francis

Evidence for a sea-ice link is building and at least 15 recent papers have found a connection, Francis said.

"I don't think you'd find a scientist who'd say there's nothing going on. The events that we've seen in the last few years are very consistent with what we'd expect.''

Arctic sea ice isn't recovering. So if the effect on southern weather is real, look for more of the same, said Phillips.

"It's the preview of what we're going to see. The circulation has changed. It's almost a fundamental change in our weather.''

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/17/endless-winter-arctic-ice_a_23413520/?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001

remember the global cooling scares in the 1970s?




[/QUOTE]
 
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