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Arrested for being black in Starbucks

daytimelover

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Jan 16, 2017
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My son and his friends where asked to leave starbucks here in TO as well, they where also told if they didn't leave the police would be called. They choose to leave. they where in a group of 4 where only one of them had bought something. They thought it was wrong but, they where told they where taking space of paying customers. The day they where there it was busy, which may have been a factor.
 

wazup

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2010
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They were tresspassing if they didn't buy anything, case closed.
 

Blue-Spheroid

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Jun 30, 2007
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Bloor and Sleazy
If you read the article you'll realise it's not an open and shut case.

Yes, a store has the right to ask people to leave if they are not customers and that is the policy. If they don't leave, they are technically trespassing and Police can be called. The police do have an obligation to deal with trespassers.

However, you have to ask yourself how many people pass through a Starbucks on a daily basis. How many sit for hours at tables without buying anything and surf their laptops.

Then you have to ask yourself how many times the police get called on the these people.

From my reading of the article, two calm men entered a Starbucks and indicated they were waiting for a third party to arrive. This happens all the time without 911 being called. In this case, the Manager decide to call 911. Why? I can't prove he was motivated by racist thoughts but it's pretty damn obvious that's exactly what happened. Same with the police. They had an obligation to attend the scene because (even though it was wrong) a 911 call had been placed. However, once on the scene and seeing two calm and law abiding men, they could have negotiated a peaceful end to the situation. In fact, the video captures the men offering to leave and the police not accepting the offer.

Again, I can't read the mind of the officers but it's pretty obvious that they wouldn't have rousted a pair of Brooks Brothers college boys named Chad and Winston in quite the same way.

The Manager of the Starbucks should be fired immediately. I would not want someone like that in charge of my store and Starbucks shouldn't either. The police officers need to be disciplined in proportion to the role each had in the incident.
 

CANTO

Member
Aug 13, 2012
140
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This seems out of character for Starbucks. They bill themselves as a place to meet friends and hang out, they don't usually rush people out the door for not buying something right away. I've sat around a Starbucks without buying things lots of times here in Toronto while waiting for friends to show up and nobody has ever said anything about it.
 

Blue-Spheroid

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This seems out of character for Starbucks. They bill themselves as a place to meet friends and hang out,
I agree. The corporate policy encourages making the cafe a social spot. But the manager in this one obviously got it very wrong. Now, if he gets to keep his job, Starbucks is signaling that their policy is for non-blacks only.
 

lomotil

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Mar 14, 2004
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I agree. The corporate policy encourages making the cafe a social spot. But the manager in this one obviously got it very wrong. Now, if he gets to keep his job, Starbucks is signaling that their policy is for non-blacks only.
Starbucks is not Denny's but image is everything.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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Reading the articles, it sounds fishy.

Why a guy managing a Starbucks would suddenly call the cops out of the blue to kick out two Black guys. Were they causing trouble? Were they telling the manager to fuck off?

Maybe there's more to the story.

But if not, and what we've all read is exactly how it seemed..... two guys waiting for a buddy, no doubt the manager should be canned. No coffee shop or fast food joint is going to boot out a few people waiting for someone just for the hell of it.

Now if this was a Mercedes dealership and two guys who look like aren't interested in cars and are hanging around may get suspected looks. But for a food place, nope.

So it looks like a racially motivated decision.
 

sempel

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Feb 23, 2017
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I guess the only thing allowed to be black at Starbucks is the coffee!!!

There was likely no reason for the manager to even do anything beyond approaching them and asking them to make a purchase and indicating they need to vacate the seats if the place is busy. How this thing escalated is unknown but it reeks of racism and extremely poor decision making. Here are a few things that could have resulted in a completely different outcome

1) Manager sees two guys loitering (they were) and not buying anything so he goes up and explains that customers are expected to purchase something. Guys respond they are waiting for someone. Manager leaves them alone.
2) After waiting manager approaches them and says they need the space so please purchase something or vacate the seating. They can happily stand around but the seating is for customers.
3) Guys refuse to purchase so the manager politely asks them to leave and indicates getting authorities involved if needed.
4) Police show up and simply talk to the guys and find out what the situation is
5) Police let the guys leave when the guys say they will, no arrests made
6) Police escort the guys out, but again, no arrest made. Polite chat outside the Starbucks with the guys.

What is sad is the fact that the police are being defended. Really? Arresting two guys for doing nothing was the right decision? Manager should be fired, police suspended and trained better.
 

Occasionally

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May 22, 2011
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What is sad is the fact that the police are being defended. Really? Arresting two guys for doing nothing was the right decision? Manager should be fired, police suspended and trained better.
I don't get that part either.

Even if the manager told the police these guys are hanging around too long, all the cops have to do is tell them to leave.

I don't see any reason for them getting arrested....... (unless there's some hidden info like they were resisting and telling the cops off).

So if the guys weren't being combative, I don't see how any cop would be justified arresting them.

Then again, don't be surprised if the police chief gets on his podium making a formal statement saying his "policemen did a great job and are standout veterans". And if the cops went in Rambo and shot the kids, the chief would probably say the same thing too.

Pretty sad when you think of it. A much needed department to help keep things under control. But when the step over the line being asses, they sure have asshole responses to the public justifying the actions.

Notice how hard it is for any police dept to say..... "Yeah, we messed up". When was the last time you ever heard a policeman or chief say that?
 

sempel

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Feb 23, 2017
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I don't get that part either.

Even if the manager told the police these guys are hanging around too long, all the cops have to do is tell them to leave.

I don't see any reason for them getting arrested....... (unless there's some hidden info like they were resisting and telling the cops off).

So if the guys weren't being combative, I don't see how any cop would be justified arresting them.

Then again, don't be surprised if the police chief gets on his podium making a formal statement saying his "policemen did a great job and are standout veterans". And if the cops went in Rambo and shot the kids, the chief would probably say the same thing too.

Pretty sad when you think of it. A much needed department to help keep things under control. But when the step over the line being asses, they sure have asshole responses to the public justifying the actions.

Notice how hard it is for any police dept to say..... "Yeah, we messed up". When was the last time you ever heard a policeman or chief say that?
It's a catch-22. If you admit you are wrong, (1) you look incompetent as a leader and as a force and (2) you lose the respect of the troops who now think you don't support them. How many times and situations involve someone defending actions that are clearly wrong or a mistake simply as a form of loyalty?

This is a huge PR nightmare for Starbucks and the police. Pretty sure shit like this is why people are taking a knee at football games or protesting or whatever else is going on that claims racism is alive and well in US because it clearly is.
 

lomotil

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It's a catch-22. If you admit you are wrong, (1) you look incompetent as a leader and as a force and (2) you lose the respect of the troops who now think you don't support them. How many times and situations involve someone defending actions that are clearly wrong or a mistake simply as a form of loyalty?

This is a huge PR nightmare for Starbucks and the police. Pretty sure shit like this is why people are taking a knee at football games or protesting or whatever else is going on that claims racism is alive and well in US because it clearly is.
Agreed, and also the two guys are likely being contacted by lawyers who would want to go after Starbucks and the police for civil rights and civil liberties violations. With the litigious nature of Americans, these two gentleman will likely be financially compensated. This episode was nicely recorded and now viral so there is not much wiggle room for the Starbucks or the police to wangle out of a settlement.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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Agreed, and also the two guys are likely being contacted by lawyers who would want to go after Starbucks and the police for civil rights and civil liberties violations. With the litigious nature of Americans, these two gentleman will likely be financially compensated. This episode was nicely recorded and now viral so there is not much wiggle room for the Starbucks or the police to wangle out of a settlement.
I haven't watched the videos, but assuming the two black guys were as innocent as claimed, good on them if they make good cash from it. They deserve it.

And a good thing about cellphones, YT, viral video and such. It's only in the past maybe 10 years this stuff has taken off. Anyone can pull out a phone and record.

And not surprisingly, since then, the number of policemen caught doing stupid shit (along with crooks too) has increased exponentially. Before that you had to rely on word of mouth and security cam coverage. And going on the perception that cops are good guys, most people will probably believe a cop over a dude he confronted and arrested.

But now, nobody can hide. And look how many instances (basically weekly), where cops are caught doing stupid things which we would have never heard before or it was brushed under the rug. Cops not so angelic after all.
 

Celticman

Into Ties and Tail
Aug 13, 2009
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You started off by saying it's not an open and shut case but then went on to make a lot of black and white definitive statements. Case shut?

If you read the article you'll realise it's not an open and shut case.

Yes, a store has the right to ask people to leave if they are not customers and that is the policy. If they don't leave, they are technically trespassing and Police can be called. The police do have an obligation to deal with trespassers.

However, you have to ask yourself how many people pass through a Starbucks on a daily basis. How many sit for hours at tables without buying anything and surf their laptops.

Then you have to ask yourself how many times the police get called on the these people.

From my reading of the article, two calm men entered a Starbucks and indicated they were waiting for a third party to arrive. This happens all the time without 911 being called. In this case, the Manager decide to call 911. Why? I can't prove he was motivated by racist thoughts but it's pretty damn obvious that's exactly what happened. Same with the police. They had an obligation to attend the scene because (even though it was wrong) a 911 call had been placed. However, once on the scene and seeing two calm and law abiding men, they could have negotiated a peaceful end to the situation. In fact, the video captures the men offering to leave and the police not accepting the offer.

Again, I can't read the mind of the officers but it's pretty obvious that they wouldn't have rousted a pair of Brooks Brothers college boys named Chad and Winston in quite the same way.

The Manager of the Starbucks should be fired immediately. I would not want someone like that in charge of my store and Starbucks shouldn't either. The police officers need to be disciplined in proportion to the role each had in the incident.
 
O

OnTheWayOut

What I don't get is why these guys- who were there to discuss real estate- did not buy a $2 beverage after they were told restrooms were for customers only. Problem solved, no debate, no cops. Free refills if you are a gold card member.
 

saxon

Well-known member
Dec 2, 2009
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If they were just waiting for someone they should have waited outside especially if they had no intention of purchasing anything.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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There might be more to the story..... unless the police chief is lying.

The story is supposedly:

- Two Black guys hanging out in a store
- Hanging around not buying anything
- Wanted to use a bathroom, manager said paying customers only
- Tells them to leave and they won't
- Cops come and the police chief claims they told them politely 3 times to leave, but they wouldn't
- So since they wouldn't budge, they arrested them

Now if this complete story is true, it looks like there is stupidity from all sides. Manager seemed to go overboard calling cops, Black guys not budging even when cops come telling them to leave, and cops go to the extreme and arrest them.

Only in America.
 
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