Female Wage Gap - The Crown

sempel · Mar 19, 2018

https://stg2.theglobeandmail.com/ar...ns-queen-elizabeth-paid-less-than-her-prince/

Royal pay gap? ‘The Crown”s Queen Elizabeth paid less than her prince

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Even royals, it seems, may suffer from the gender pay gap.
British actress Claire Foy, who starred as a young Queen Elizabeth in the critically acclaimed Netflix series “The Crown,” was paid less than her co-star, Matt Smith, according to the television show’s producers.
In the latest example of pay disparity in the entertainment industry, Hollywood trade publication Variety reported on Tuesday that “The Crown” producers Andy Harries and Suzanne Mackie told a television industry conference in Jerusalem that Smith, who played a young Prince Philip, was paid more than Foy for the first two seasons of the show.

Foy, 33, won a Golden Globe and two Screen Actors Guild awards for her nuanced portrayal of Britain’s monarch in the 1950s and 1960s. Smith, 35, was not similarly honored.
The pay difference was due to Smith coming into the show after a six-year stint as “Dr. Who” on television - one of Britain’s most popular shows, the producers said. They did not give details of the gap.

The producers said they would rectify that in the future, Variety reported.
“Going forward, no one gets paid more than the queen,” Variety quoted Mackie as saying.
Foy, however, will not be reprising her role as Queen Elizabeth. British actress Olivia Coleman is stepping in to play the older monarch as upcoming Season 3 of the show moves into the 1970s. Prince Philip will also be played by a different actor.
Netflix Inc declined to comment on actor salaries. Representatives for Foy and Smith did not return requests for comment on Tuesday.
“The Crown” is one of the most expensive television shows ever produced, costing a reported $130 million for the first season.

The ongoing disparity between men and women is reflected in annual lists published by Forbes magazine. In 2017, Emma Stone topped the best-paid actress list with $26 million, while Mark Wahlberg was the highest paid man with $68 million in estimated annual earnings.
Wahlberg made news earlier this year when it was revealed that he was paid $1.5 million for reshoots on movie “All the Money in the World” while co-star Michelle Williams got $1,000. Wahlberg later donated his salary to Time’s Up, the campaign against workplace sexual misconduct.

I find it difficult to know for certain what the gap is between men and women. First of all, different sources cite different amounts (ranges from 10%-30%). Second, there does not appear to be any real research being done to exclude other determining factors. It seems like people just look and say "woman earning less than a man for the same job" without looking at anything other than the gender of the two people being compared.

I believe that Sylvester Stallone was paid less than Burt Young for Rocky 1. I know that Jackie Chan made less than Chris Tucker for the Rush Hour films. So the title star is not always paid the most. I'm pretty sure any film starring an unknown actor and a well known female (e.g. Julia Roberts or Emma Stone) is going to have the lady being paid much more because a well-known, established star tends to make more money.

My question - is this author out to lunch, talking about a gender pay gap when there's clearly a good reason for the male co-star to be paid more than the female lead?

Smallcock · Mar 19, 2018

sempel said:
Second, there does not appear to be any real research being done to exclude other determining factors.

Christina Hoff Sommers has researched the topic extensively.

angrymime666 · Mar 19, 2018

this has been debunked as a myth by many economists, anti-feminist, feminists and other credible sources. the myth is perpetuated in order to show inequality to further push the victim narrative.

oldjones · Mar 19, 2018

While his previous success and her lesser renown may have dealt their agents differing bargaining chips, there can be little arguing her performance was worth multiples of his empty and unconvincing walk-through. You'd have to marvel if the fly on the wall never heard her agent ask why the title (and significantly larger and more challenging) role wasn't getting the largest pay-cheque. Even more 'marvelous' would be to hear the producers' justification for the unfairness.

But that's show-biz, an industry where everyone's a hired liar.

icespot · Mar 19, 2018

sempel said:
https://stg2.theglobeandmail.com/ar...ns-queen-elizabeth-paid-less-than-her-prince/

I find it difficult to know for certain what the gap is between men and women. First of all, different sources cite different amounts (ranges from 10%-30%). Second, there does not appear to be any real research being done to exclude other determining factors. It seems like people just look and say "woman earning less than a man for the same job" without looking at anything other than the gender of the two people being compared.

I believe that Sylvester Stallone was paid less than Burt Young for Rocky 1. I know that Jackie Chan made less than Chris Tucker for the Rush Hour films. So the title star is not always paid the most. I'm pretty sure any film starring an unknown actor and a well known female (e.g. Julia Roberts or Emma Stone) is going to have the lady being paid much more because a well-known, established star tends to make more money.

My question - is this author out to lunch, talking about a gender pay gap when there's clearly a good reason for the male co-star to be paid more than the female lead?

You forgot Iron man:

What’s ironic is Robert made essentially nothing for his role in the first film, reports suggest less than $250k, due to the cost of the insurance being so high for him to be the lead character of the film, because of his previous legal problems. His co-star, Terrence Howard, famously made more money than Robert did, but was replaced with Don Cheadle in Iron Man 2 when Robert’s salary was rightfully increased to between $6-10 million in 2010.

frankcastle · Mar 19, 2018

There is a wage gap in show business.

But in the case of the show the Crown..... the guy was a well known actor from Dr Who. Foy was not as well known. Contracts were signed prior to the success of the show. I'm sure when the contracts come up we will see an adjustment.

frankcastle · Mar 19, 2018

Smallcock said:
Christina Hoff Sommers has researched the topic extensively.

This video misses the point. It's not really solely free will/choice that results in women ending up in lower paying jobs. There are social pressures and hiring that also affects it. There are other factors at play, it's not like women just decided that thye don't want to be CEOs etc.

It also uses stupid logic like "if women make less then why not hire all women?" because there aren't enough women to allow for that model.

Anyways, don't bother responding because I'm just posting a counterpoint.[SUB][/SUB]

icespot · Mar 19, 2018

frankcastle said:
This video misses the point. It's not really solely free will/choice that results in women ending up in lower paying jobs. There are social pressures and hiring that also affects it. There are other factors at play, it's not like women just decided that thye don't want to be CEOs etc.

It also uses stupid logic like "if women make less then why not hire all women?" because there aren't enough women to allow for that model.

Anyways, don't bother responding because I'm just posting a counterpoint.[SUB][/SUB]

You forgot racial, because so far we have just been talking about white wome. Haven't even consider black and hispanic workers that make less than white females,

When the gender earnings ratio is measured using White men’s earnings as the comparison, it shows marked disadvantage for Hispanic and Black women. Hispanic women earned just 54.4 percent (unchanged from 2015) and Black women earned just 62.5 percent (down from 63.3 percent in 2015) of White men’s median annual earnings in 2016 (Table 1).

Smallcock · Mar 19, 2018

frankcastle said:
This video misses the point. It's not really solely free will/choice that results in women ending up in lower paying jobs. There are social pressures and hiring that also affects it. There are other factors at play, it's not like women just decided that thye don't want to be CEOs etc.

It also uses stupid logic like "if women make less then why not hire all women?" because there aren't enough women to allow for that model.

Anyways, don't bother responding because I'm just posting a counterpoint.[SUB][/SUB]

You unsupported opinions vs data. I'll stick with the aggregate data and multi-variate analysis on the topic.

sempel · Mar 19, 2018

icespot said:
You forgot racial, because so far we have just been talking about white wome. Haven't even consider black and hispanic workers that make less than white females,

When the gender earnings ratio is measured using White men’s earnings as the comparison, it shows marked disadvantage for Hispanic and Black women. Hispanic women earned just 54.4 percent (unchanged from 2015) and Black women earned just 62.5 percent (down from 63.3 percent in 2015) of White men’s median annual earnings in 2016 (Table 1).

Chances are non-white men are earning less too.

icespot · Mar 20, 2018

sempel said:
Chances are non-white men are earning less too.

Yes, less than white women....

Black men earned 71 cents for every dollar earned by white men in 2016 (compared to 65 cents/dollar in 2007) and Hispanic men earned 66 cents on the dollar (compared to 58 cents/dollar in 2007).
https://www.epi.org/blog/new-census...e-fastest-growth-for-second-consecutive-year/

oldjones · Mar 20, 2018

frankcastle said:
This video misses the point. It's not really solely free will/choice that results in women ending up in lower paying jobs. There are social pressures and hiring that also affects it. There are other factors at play, it's not like women just decided that thye don't want to be CEOs etc.
It also uses stupid logic like "if women make less then why not hire all women?" because there aren't enough women to allow for that model.
Anyways, don't bother responding because I'm just posting a counterpoint.[SUB][/SUB]

Because if the job or the pay was desirable, the men would muscle the women aside? Lots of examples from typing pools to aircraft assembly lines prove either gender is physically and mentally capable of any job, so the skewed choices and stats must reflect factors other than ability.

james t kirk · Mar 20, 2018

frankcastle said:
There is a wage gap in show business.

But in the case of the show the Crown..... the guy was a well known actor from Dr Who. Foy was not as well known. Contracts were signed prior to the success of the show. I'm sure when the contracts come up we will see an adjustment.

Apparently season 3 will have a new actress playing Queen Elizabeth II because the series is moving on in time, so they need a more age appropriate actress to play Queen E.

So that's it for Clair Foy.

I watched Season 1 and it was excellent. I watched Season 2 in fragments and I will catch up with it. Clair Foy did an amazing job in the role.

sempel · Mar 20, 2018

In a similar story related to wage gap, Martina Navratilova said she earns 10X less than John McEnroe for Wimbledon commentary for the BBC. While it's clear McEnroe's duties are a bit different and he works 3X as much, that is still a significant gap. I'd like to hear more about this because IMO this ISN'T justifiable versus the Crown.

Big Sleazy · Mar 20, 2018

The Queen's income more than makes up for any wage gap. And she doesn't even pay property taxes.

VERYBADBOY · Mar 20, 2018

sempel said:
In a similar story related to wage gap, Martina Navratilova said she earns 10X less than John McEnroe for Wimbledon commentary for the BBC. While it's clear McEnroe's duties are a bit different and he works 3X as much, that is still a significant gap. I'd like to hear more about this because IMO this ISN'T justifiable versus the Crown.

She works for BBC which is trying to handle their own wage gap problems at this present time.

Also appears to be an apology from the Crown
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-43475997

VBB

frankcastle · Mar 20, 2018

Smallcock said:
You unsupported opinions vs data. I'll stick with the aggregate data and multi-variate analysis on the topic.

It's not an opinion that traditionally women have not been encouraged to work in the trades. It's not an opinion that men dominate CEO type positions. It's not an opinion that hiring and promotions are not purely based on merits. It's no secret that in certain fields people shy away from hiring women for fear they will take mat leave.

So your "data" which claims it's all about choice is WRONG.

Anyways, not going to waste time showing stats that prove you wrong as we all know it will just go back and forth.

Smallcock · Mar 20, 2018

frankcastle said:
It's not an opinion that traditionally women have not been encouraged to work in the trades. It's not an opinion that men dominate CEO type positions. It's not an opinion that hiring and promotions are not purely based on merits. It's no secret that in certain fields people shy away from hiring women for fear they will take mat leave.

So your "data" which claims it's all about choice is WRONG.

Anyways, not going to waste time showing stats that prove you wrong as we all know it will just go back and forth.

In some Nordic societies, men and women are encouraged to work in any field they want - yet there is a radical divergence in the choices they make. Is it your contention that men and women, given absolute freedom to follow any pursuit in life, will end up being equally represented in them? If we removed tradition from the time capsule, do you think men and women will pursue being nurses equally?

Yes, men dominate CEO type positions. Do you know what kind of hours and sacrifice it takes to be a CEO? These are people that rarely see their own children grow up. Who is more likely to sacrifice that, men or women?

We can go back and forth. I bet I would learn new things from you. But thus far you're treading ground that the data has addressed.

frankcastle · Mar 20, 2018

Smallcock said:
In some Nordic societies, men and women are encouraged to work in any field they want - yet there is a radical divergence in the choices they make. Is it your contention that men and women, given absolute freedom to follow any pursuit in life, will end up being equally represented in them? If we removed tradition from the time capsule, do you think men and women will pursue being nurses equally?

Yes, men dominate CEO type positions. Do you know what kind of hours and sacrifice it takes to be a CEO? These are people that rarely see their own children grow up. Who is more likely to sacrifice that, men or women?

We can go back and forth. I bet I would learn new things from you. But thus far you're treading ground that the data has addressed.

Now that I think about it are they (the video) not admitting there is a wage gap and that the problem is choice?

If we removed centuries of bias in how kids are raised then I would assume that many fields would become more even.

BTW the Nordic model has not been around long enough to undue past biases.

Re: CEOs..... your explanation is only partially correct. You are ignoring that traditional roles has care giving fall on the woman. That means women's choices are limited/restricted by social norms. You're also dodging the fact that their are biases in the promotion process. Anyways.... you are only furthering my point that it's not so simple for a woman to just "choose" to put herself on a path to become a CEO because she also has to find a partner who supports that idea.... be it by not having children, hiring nannies (which costs money and thus limits who can choose that option), or have a man who is okay staying home or can work from home.

Anyways..... the point I am making still stands that it's not so simple as to just tell women "make better choices"

frankcastle · Mar 20, 2018

The video chalks it up to choices but doesn't examine the reasons for the choices.

For example it talks about how male nurses make 18% more.... they claim it is because they gravitate to certain specialties (are women not aware of those) that pay higher, more likely to relocate (is that because care of elderly parents falls more on women than men... go ahead and google it, it's real), work longer hours (again who is more expected to care for kids).

So basically it's not so simple for the female nurse to "just choose a better position" she also has to convince her brother to help out with parents and get a husband on board to help out more with the kids. But if the man is making more (since statistically he probably does) would it even make sense for the husband to cut back so the female can move forward?

So the video is bullshit because it's basically saying
-yes there is a wage gap BUT it's all about choices

However, it doesn't stop to ask why are there different choices being made even in situations like male and female nurses

Female Wage Gap - The Crown

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