Doug Ford - no layoffs and 6B in savings!!!

james t kirk said:

Built was the wrong choice of words.

Approved would be a better word.

Unless council reverses its decision (which they have said they will not), then it will get built.

Click to expand...

Tory is hiding the costs of the subway from the public and won't let them out until the next election.

Updated Scarborough subway costs will be ready but not made public before the next election
A briefing for Mayor John Tory prepared in October says the updated costs for the controversial subway project will be ready in September 2018 but released in January 2019.

Click to expand...

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...not-made-public-before-the-next-election.html

That and they'd have to shut down the RT line there for 1 year during construction.

The design isn't finished and they won't told us how much it would cost.

Still think its going to happen or even that it should happen?

james t kirk said:

It blows my mind how long it takes to do anything these days. If the government in 1867 had moved at this pace, the CPR would still be in the planning stages.

Click to expand...

Very true. Look at the whole Pickering Airport saga that was initiated in 1972. A city like Toronto requires two airports like all major cities such as London (England) with 4 airports and not counting the City Airport, and New York. So look how much they have to spend just to maintain the land by all Governments:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...and-it-seized-for-an-airport-never-built.html

Frankfooter said:

Its not worth responding to posts that start with insults.

Click to expand...

Well stop being a moron

Ford represents the populists and his record with his brother totally fucking over the transit file in this city shows that he backs totally irresponsible policies to try to get elected.
Whatever their results.

Click to expand...

Ford represents the only option to return to financial responsibility & that is the number one issue

Suggesting that the team that brought you the $3 billion subway stop is going to do better with the economy or budget is what you might call 'moronic'.

Click to expand...

Bullshit
Suggesting the liberals will miraculously begin to be financial responsible is not only moronic, it is a plain and outright lie
Suggesting the NDP will be financial responsible just insults the intelligence of the reader as you did when you said " Ont is doing OK"

JohnLarue said:

Ford represents the only option to return to financial responsibility & that is the number one issue

Click to expand...

Claiming that the family that is trying to sell Toronto a $3 billion plus, single subway stop, in a location that will never have the population base to support it, is going to return us to financial responsibility proves who is the moron here.

Frankfooter said:

Claiming that the family that is trying to sell Toronto a $3 billion plus, single subway stop, in a location that will never have the population base to support it, is going to return us to financial responsibility proves who is the moron here.

Click to expand...

Look
Ontario has a huge & very serious financial problem
Pretending the debt problem does not exist is plain stupid
Communicating the lie that it is not a problem is both stupid and morally corrupt

Only one of the three candidates has said they will try to address the problem.

Complaining about a subway stop does not negate the fact that the other two candidates will not try to address the debt problem nor change the fact that the spending will only continue under either the Liberals or the NDP.

Ontario spends $12 B a year on interest & those interest costs are moving up
Image the improvements in Health Care & Education $12 B would now buy
Worse than that
When interest rates normilize the province may have an extra $12 b in interest costs which will mean cuts to Health Care & Education

Kathleen Wynne created this mess. She aint going to fix it
The NDP ???? slashing costs just is not in their DNA

There is only one choice if you give a rats ass about your kids & grand kids future

JohnLarue said:

Only one of the three candidates has said they will try to address the problem.

Click to expand...

Yes, and he's a known liar who repeatedly lied to the public about his crack smoking brother to protect his families interests over those of the public.
When you put that together with their incredibly wasteful subway stop only a moron would believe that he's going to fix Ontario's financial problems based on his track record.

james t kirk said:

Government Driven are jobs that are paid for either directly or indirectly by the Government of Ontario. End result is the same, it comes out of the taxes that the good people of Ontario pay.

See, in case you are not aware, Ontario dreamed up these things called "Government Agencies". These are organizations that while they may not be the Ontario Ministry of Whatever, they are paid for by the Government.

For Example,

Metrolinx = An Agency of the Government of Ontario
Infrastructure Ontario = An Agency of the Government of Ontario
Ontario Centres of Excellence
Trillium Foundation
MARS

Here's a link to an enormous list of Agencies of the Government of Ontario.

The list goes on and on.

It's simply creative accounting to confuse people as to who pays the bills.

Teachers, nurses, doctors, university personnel, yes, you absolutely need them, but at the end of the day, the Government of Ontario pays for them and the fact REMAINS, that the liberals only bright idea to help the Ontario economy is to add more government jobs.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer, but we seem to be slipping, not makeing progress, because we still have no authoritative number for this amazing number of jobs Wynne created so secretively, and now you want to discuss definitions. So in fact it appears we don't know very much about these jobs at all.

The three sectors you mentioned: Healthcare, education and social assistance provide services directly to citizens. That woulds make them consumer-driven if we we talking commerce, you'd be more accurate to call them taxpayer or citizen dive, Certainly no government is 'driving' people to go on welfare, see doctors or go to college. You might say government-managed sectors, or government-funded perhaps, but the three sectors you mentioned are service-providers first and foremost. And if government didn't run them, we'd still be paying for those services.

Because you say reasonable things, I'll take a look at your list but I really don't see what it tells us beyond names. Ford and GM have ginormous lists of departments, divisions branches, subsidiaries and installations too. But at the end of the day there's just one customer paying for every bit of it, just like there's just one taxpayer. Who would imagine anything else?

What could be instructive and useful, perhaps, would be jtk's list of the agencies we could do without, and more the the practical point, who would do what they're doing now, and how would they do it for less?

But we'll file that still-unverified still far-fetched and unbelievable job-creation number under baloney. I note the writer's own bio says his bosses once forgot about him entirely when he was away on assignment. They were wiser than they knew perhaps.

Frankfooter said:

[Yes, and he's a known liar who repeatedly lied to the public about his crack smoking brother to protect his families interests over those of the public.

Click to expand...

You can not prove that
Is there no low you would not stoop to

When you put that together with their incredibly wasteful subway stop only a moron would believe that he's going to fix Ontario's financial problems based on his track record.

Click to expand...

Look stupid, he says he is going to fix the finances. Lets hope he can
The other two are going to increase spending. there is no way either of them will fix the fiances.

it is real simple and staightforward
Those are the only choices

And you you think bring up his brother & his personal issues will somehow fix the financial problem ???

JohnLarue said:

You can not prove that
Is there no low you would not stoop to

Click to expand...

John Oakley: “So you deny Rob has a drinking or a drug problem?”

Ford: “Absolutely. You know something, this is a story they try to threaten you, they keep threatening you, sending us threatening letters.”

Click to expand...

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ar_story_about_mayor_rob_fords_behaviour.html

Wow, caught out again Larue.
You're on a roll.

Look stupid, he says he is going to fix the finances. Lets hope he can
The other two are going to increase spending. there is no way either of them will fix the fiances.

Click to expand...

The Ford's gave us a 30 year tax increase for an invisible subway station.
Don't f'ing tell me he's going to lower our taxes when the Ford's already have a record raising taxes for nothing.

Frankfooter said:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ar_story_about_mayor_rob_fords_behaviour.html

Wow, caught out again Larue.
You're on a roll.

Click to expand...

Wow that proves nothing
You are assuming Doug knew about his brothers problems before the story broke
It is likely, but that is just guessing

Besides would you rat out your brother to the media?

The Ford's gave us a 30 year tax increase for an invisible subway station.
Don't f'ing tell me he's going to lower our taxes when the Ford's already have a record raising taxes for nothing.

Click to expand...

Nothing has been spent yet , so that is pure BS

Complaining about a subway stop does not negate the fact that the other two candidates will not try to address the debt problem nor change the fact that the spending will only continue under either the Liberals or the NDP.

Ontario spends $12 B a year on interest & those interest costs are moving up
Image the improvements in Health Care & Education $12 B would now buy
Worse than that
When interest rates normilize the province may have an extra $12 b in interest costs which will mean cuts to Health Care & Education

Kathleen Wynne created this mess. She aint going to fix it
The NDP ???? slashing costs just is not in their DNA

There is only one choice if you give a rats ass about your kids & grand kids future

nottyboi said:

Whats your problem with Europe? I have been there several times and its pretty nice, people live decent lives, they get nice long vacations, seem to smile a lot, many places have superb infrastructure and excellent healthcare, their currency is pretty strong. So please explain why your statement is not rubbish. Ontario is running nicely, people have good prospects, and sure there is some govt largess and incompetence, all govts have some of that.

Click to expand...

Doubling the debt to over $300 B by running nine years of deficits is not just some govt largess and incompetence.
It is unbelievably irresponsible & we desperately need a change in direction as rising interest rates will cripple the govts ability to provide health care & education.
It is simple and undeniable mathematics

We desperately need someone to shrink the size of the ONT govt

bver_hunter said:

Read the article as it debunked the notion that the economy is doing poorly. Canadians from other provinces move to Ontario as the jobs are there. The only time that the article clearly stated, that the economy may suffer is because of NAFTA. So it is related to Trump. I know that you love that guy, but he is the one that will hurt Canada and his own States that trade with Canada and Ontario in particular. Related to the thread, so not "pivoting" as you claim. Even if Ford comes in and the Ontario suffers as a result of NAFTA, I know that you will not blame Ford, or Trump, but off course the "former Wynn Government" and the present "Trudeau Federal Government". That is what your politics is all about.

Click to expand...

Of course, other articles are less flattering when it comes to the Wynne government's economic performance.

http://business.financialpost.com/o...might-get-to-fix-ontarios-economic-trainwreck

The reality is this: Skyrocketing hydro rates have hurt the economy and have hurt voters' pocketbooks. And voters know all too well that the energy fiasco in Ontario was created by the Liberal government with its green energy act.

The hit on people's wallets will get worse under cap and trade.

Donald Trump isn't to blame for these homegrown problems. If we really insist on blaming an American, blame Al Gore.

Moviefan-2 said:

Of course, other articles are less flattering when it comes to the Wynne government's economic performance.

http://business.financialpost.com/o...might-get-to-fix-ontarios-economic-trainwreck

The reality is this: Skyrocketing hydro rates have hurt the economy and have hurt voters' pocketbooks. And voters know all too well that the energy fiasco in Ontario was created by the Liberal government with its green energy act.

The hit on people's wallets will get worse under cap and trade.

Donald Trump isn't to blame for these homegrown problems. If we really insist on blaming an American, blame Al Gore.

Click to expand...

Voters north of the city are not that bothered about Hydro rates as they are peanuts compared to the toll charges on the 407ETR that has gone up by 1000% since inception and rising, thanks to the sweetheart deal commissioned by great grandpa Harris' Conservative Government. What a waste of $100 billion.
They have no alternative but to use this form of travel. Do you think that such a transaction by the Conservative Government that creates elitist deals that benefit only a tiny minority of Ontarians but paid for by all the Ontarians is acceptable? At least better Schools, Libraries and infrastructure benefit all.

By the way when has the Business Financial Post written the actual truth about the Ontario Economy. Even last year they were predicting that unemployment will rise and growth will stagnate. But that has been miles away from the actual truth.

The cancellation of NAFTA will hit all the Canadians and the US States that depend on trade with Canada. Already the tariffs on Softwood lumber are hurting the smaller Canadian Softwood Lumber firms badly. I know you try to make excuses for Trump, but he is more like an enemy to Canadian Businesses and workers.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ndermine-talks-christy-clark/article34810525/

bver_hunter said:

Voters north of the city are not that bothered about Hydro rates as they are peanuts compared to the toll charges on the 407ETR that has gone up by 1000% since inception and rising, thanks to the sweetheart deal commissioned by great grandpa Harris' Conservative Government. What a waste of $100 billion.
They have no alternative but to use this form of travel. Do you think that such a transaction by the Conservative Government that creates elitist deals that benefit only a tiny minority of Ontarians but paid for by all the Ontarians is acceptable? At least better Schools, Libraries and infrastructure benefit all.

By the way when has the Business Financial Post written the actual truth about the Ontario Economy. Even last year they were predicting that unemployment will rise and growth will stagnate. But that has been miles away from the actual truth.

The cancellation of NAFTA will hit all the Canadians and the US States that depend on trade with Canada. Already the tariffs on Softwood lumber are hurting the smaller Canadian Softwood Lumber firms badly. I know you try to make excuses for Trump, but he is more like an enemy to Canadian Businesses and workers.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ndermine-talks-christy-clark/article34810525/

Click to expand...

You might want to read this article in Maclean's about why Kathleen Wynne is still so unpopular. I'll give you a head's up -- it doesn't say anything about Donald Trump.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/why-kathleen-wynne-is-still-so-unpopular/

Personally, I would love to see Wynne campaign on her government's economic record. But I suspect she won't go anywhere near it.

Moviefan-2 said:

You might want to read this article in Maclean's about why Kathleen Wynne is still so unpopular. I'll give you a head's up -- it doesn't say anything about Donald Trump.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/why-kathleen-wynne-is-still-so-unpopular/

Personally, I would love to see Wynne campaign on her government's economic record. But I suspect she won't go anywhere near it.

Click to expand...

Following the exchange with jamestkirk above, I actually looked up Ontario's deficit for 2013, and the years until now. As the Government said, a couple of years back, "This marks the seventh year in a row that Ontario has beaten its deficit target." You could do the Googling, or check the Globe and Mail's colourful graphic which shows the same thing as a bar-chart and brings it up to date. You could also read the G&M article, partisan but factual, with nary a mention of fantasies like 'annual doubling of government-driven payrolls'.

You'll recall 2008 when the deficits began, Stephen 'My Government will never run deficits' Harper ran things in Ottawa and Dalton at Queen's Park. Thanks to the Global Meltdown Harper had to eat his rash words, ran the biggest deficit in Canadian history, and lost his job while Dalton got into recovery mode. When he handed his job — and its scandals — to Wynne in 2013, she continued shrinking the deficits as promised. In fact, year after year doing better than the reductions they had forecast by several percent annually.

The only reason not to campaign on that record is that voters want promises, not past percentages and performance†. And as the exchange I mentioned earlier illustrates they'd rather believe something far-fetched that supports their made up minds than look for facts that might lead to a rational decision.

Wynne has a good record, Doug has none at all, except for silly schemes. His readiness to make the same empty promises as his do-nothing wastrel brother, Huge-deficits-Harper and countless mediocre pols before them is no cause for hope.
-----------
† Obligatory Trump Reference: Why else would they put a serial bankrupt in charge of the US Budget? And just look at his deficit!

JohnLarue said:

Look
Ontario has a huge & very serious financial problem
Pretending the debt problem does not exist is plain stupid
Communicating the lie that it is not a problem is both stupid and morally corrupt

Only one of the three candidates has said they will try to address the problem.

Complaining about a subway stop does not negate the fact that the other two candidates will not try to address the debt problem nor change the fact that the spending will only continue under either the Liberals or the NDP.

Ontario spends $12 B a year on interest & those interest costs are moving up
Image the improvements in Health Care & Education $12 B would now buy
Worse than that
When interest rates normilize the province may have an extra $12 b in interest costs which will mean cuts to Health Care & Education

Kathleen Wynne created this mess. She aint going to fix it
The NDP ???? slashing costs just is not in their DNA

There is only one choice if you give a rats ass about your kids & grand kids future

Click to expand...

I agree with you completely.

There is only one 300 pound problem in the equation.

bver_hunter said:

Voters north of the city are not that bothered about Hydro rates as they are peanuts compared to the toll charges on the 407ETR that has gone up by 1000% since inception and rising, thanks to the sweetheart deal commissioned by great grandpa Harris' Conservative Government. What a waste of $100 billion.
They have no alternative but to use this form of travel. Do you think that such a transaction by the Conservative Government that creates elitist deals that benefit only a tiny minority of Ontarians but paid for by all the Ontarians is acceptable? At least better Schools, Libraries and infrastructure benefit all.
34810525/[/url]

Click to expand...

With respect to the 407 a couple of factoids (if I remember correctly)....

1. The government still owns the 407, they just sold the rights to operate the thing for 100 years to the Spanish.

2. The sale of the 407 was an international tender with the sale to the highest bidder. Anyone, even you, could have bought the thing.

3. The successful bidder paid more for it than anyone else ON THE PLANET.

4. The purpose of the sale was so that the missing pieces (the gap in Mississauga to Oakville, the eastward extension from Highway 48, the new 412 to the 401, the new eastward extension again etc.) would be designed and constructed by the successful bidder. The tax payers of Ontario did not pay for that work, the consortium who bought the rights to the 407 has.

5. In about 80 years, the entire thing reverts back to the province of Ontario (if Ontario still exists at that time).

6. The province of Ontario gets a cut of the revenue.

The 407 guys are scum bags. They kept sending my dead mom bills for fuck sakes after we told them she was dead.

They only tell you about part of the bill so that can drag the interest out to keep you paying out money.

The previldge of leasing the 407 has been abused it's time to take back what belongs to Ontario back to Ontario. I don't care about the lease, they abused it as far as I'm concerned it's null and void.

Moviefan-2 said:

You might want to read this article in Maclean's about why Kathleen Wynne is still so unpopular. I'll give you a head's up -- it doesn't say anything about Donald Trump.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/why-kathleen-wynne-is-still-so-unpopular/

Personally, I would love to see Wynne campaign on her government's economic record. But I suspect she won't go anywhere near it.

Click to expand...

If you read the link, you will see that the approval of Liberal policies are still around 75%. The problem is Wynn herself. She has upset all sections of the voters, and the Liberal Party definitely requires a new leader, that is why she should step down now.