#metoo Mentality Hitting Closer to Home

kkelso · Feb 16, 2018

One of my current gigs is acting as an interim division head for a company going through a restructuring. As a result of this restructuring some staff will be let go, some will change jobs, and some will be promoted into greater responsibility. Typical corporate stuff.

In a meeting this week we were discussing who to promote into a particular executive role. I'd suggested a long-time and very well-respected employee, a solid team player with 10+ years at the company, a reputation for getting hard jobs done, and an all-around good guy.

The president spoke up before anyone else to say that she was not in favor of his promotion. When asked why she explained that a post on GlassDoor.com implied that he paid too much attention to attractive female staffers. The post did not name him but rather implied a person at his level, and did not explain further what "too much attention" was. The president went on to say that "we cannot be too careful with everything going on".

For those of you who might not be familiar, GlassDoor.com is a site where anyone can anonymously post any "review" of a company that they wish. It is extremely common for unhappy and especially recently terminated employees to vent their frustrations on GlassDoor, since there is no fact checking or verification of identity, etc.

So, based on an anonymous posting, about a man paying attention to females, that *might* have been about this guy, on an site full of unverified information, he will not advance in his career.

It's a lynch mob. I weep for our future.

KK

rhuarc29 · Feb 16, 2018

Yes, this is happening all across Canada and the United States as we speak. It's not about fairness anymore, it's about protecting the business from ridiculous social change.
This is why I'm glad I work for small businesses, where this kind of BS has less effect.

Smallcock · Feb 16, 2018

rhuarc29 said:
Yes, this is happening all across Canada and the United States as we speak.

And Western Europe.

essguy_ · Feb 16, 2018

The real question then is what is the President doing about it? Glassdoor can be read by the public and her company management (thus her leadership) has been maligned. What are her actions? Has she assigned anybody to look into the allegations as well as the public hit about her company (and she is on the hot seat if she does nothing). Whether it is bogus or not, inaction is dangerous.

If this is the first thing she has done in response to the Glassdoor review (I.e. refusing a promotion) then it sounds like this company is fucked up and you should watch your back since outside consultants are a great scapegoat when shit hits the fan. (Eg: if this guy ever gets wind of why he was passed over, quits and sues, and the President points her finger at you. OR the guy is a real pig, people come forward asking why the President allowed this behaviour to continue, and the President points her finger at you.)

jcpro · Feb 16, 2018

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I predicted this. Btw, the opposite is happening, too. It may be just isolated case, but I heard from another fairly large company that they'll not hire women for some field position (if they can help it) simply because they view male/female interactions as possibly harmful, in the current climate. In my own company there has been an open door policy for at least a decade- meaning no office door is ever permitted to close.

oldjones · Feb 16, 2018

essguy_ said:
The real question then is what is the President doing about it? Glassdoor can be read by the public and her company management (thus her leadership) has been maligned. What are her actions? Has she assigned anybody to look into the allegations as well as the public hit about her company (and she is on the hot seat if she does nothing). Whether it is bogus or not, inaction is dangerous.

If this is the first thing she has done in response to the Glassdoor review (I.e. refusing a promotion) then it sounds like this company is fucked up and you should watch your back since outside consultants are a great scapegoat when shit hits the fan. (Eg: if this guy ever gets wind of why he was passed over, quits and sues, and the President points her finger at you. OR the guy is a real pig, people come forward asking why the President allowed this behaviour to continue, and the President points her finger at you.)

Clearly your President cares less about having top talent managing the company for the voyage, than tacking to the errant breeze of the moment. The only possible excuse for her out-of-hand rejection is that the guy's nomination wasn't realistic in the first place.

But for the company's well-being (if not for the guy's continued employment there) her public remarks should have been accompanied with a statement that the allegations on Glass Door were being taken seriously, investigated and would be followed up with appropriate action which would address the accusation on the web. Her decision just leaves it there, doing its damage — which she apparently believes is significant — day by following day.

To base a significant promotion decision on unverified rumour suggests she's not right for her job. If the meeting sat silent without proposing a more rational course, that suggests the lower echelons are already rife with similar mediocrity and that such meetings are an empty pretence. Not actually addressing a problem you have collectively identified, directly undermines the company as much or more than one supposed harasser.

Terminator2000 · Feb 16, 2018

jcpro said:
I hate to sound like a broken record, but I predicted this. Btw, the opposite is happening, too. It may be just isolated case, but I heard from another fairly large company that they'll not hire women for some field position (if they can help it) simply because they view male/female interactions as possibly harmful, in the current climate. In my own company there has been an open door policy for at least a decade- meaning no office door is ever permitted to close.

a company will never admit theyre discriminating for a job spot. its illegal. dont know where youre hearing this from. sounds like fairy tales to me

explorerzip · Feb 16, 2018

I agree that the president is being overly cautious about an anonymous review site. That being said, this development does not prevent your colleague from advancing his career. There's nothing stopping him from a) negotiating something better with your company or b) going someplace else. Regardless of how long he's been with the company, his reputation for getting things, done, etc. the company owes him nothing. He also owes the company nothing.

Company loyalty is irrelevant these days.

kkelso · Feb 16, 2018

essguy_ said:
The real question then is what is the President doing about it? Glassdoor can be read by the public and her company management (thus her leadership) has been maligned. What are her actions? Has she assigned anybody to look into the allegations as well as the public hit about her company (and she is on the hot seat if she does nothing). Whether it is bogus or not, inaction is dangerous.

If this is the first thing she has done in response to the Glassdoor review (I.e. refusing a promotion) then it sounds like this company is fucked up and you should watch your back since outside consultants are a great scapegoat when shit hits the fan. (Eg: if this guy ever gets wind of why he was passed over, quits and sues, and the President points her finger at you. OR the guy is a real pig, people come forward asking why the President allowed this behaviour to continue, and the President points her finger at you.)

Happily, I am safe due to the structure of my contract. However I thank you for the call-out.

And yes, the president is a lackluster exec and the company is likely on a serious downhill - those are probably connected thoughts. The disturbing piece was all the other female execs (the majority are female) nodding their heads like she was describing the sun rising in the east, and the male execs sitting there afraid to challenge the stupidity of it.

I was the only one to challenge the direction. I'd like to think I would have acted the same if I was an employee, but honestly I don't know.

KK

sempel · Feb 18, 2018

kkelso said:
Happily, I am safe due to the structure of my contract. However I thank you for the call-out.

And yes, the president is a lackluster exec and the company is likely on a serious downhill - those are probably connected thoughts. The disturbing piece was all the other female execs (the majority are female) nodding their heads like she was describing the sun rising in the east, and the male execs sitting there afraid to challenge the stupidity of it.

I was the only one to challenge the direction. I'd like to think I would have acted the same if I was an employee, but honestly I don't know.

KK

Welcome to office politics 101. How many people won't challenge the boss who's clearly wrong just because he/she is the boss and one fears the consequences?

To me, this isn't the worst thing in the world. It's just another facet to be investigated/considered when choosing to hire/promote someone. It's called a background check for a reason. So I would normally applaud the boss who said this should be considered. However, the boss in this situation is clearly useless and herself needs to go. So she knows about a guy's alleged reputation and has done nothing about it? The moment the glassdoor info was discovered should have prompted in internal investigation. Suppose it came up during this promotion talk, shouldn't the conversation have been "We are considering this guy but I think it's prudent for us to investigate these claims. We don't think Glassdoor or any other anonymous site should be used as the sole basis for making decisions for obvious reasons (external, anonymous, unproven) but given the climate and any potential backlash, whether he's promoted or not, we have an obligation to the women and to the company to look into this first. Obviously if the accusations are baseless his nomination will proceed and be considered fairly."

mclarkez1980 · Feb 18, 2018

Sorry to say but guys chiming in on this is laughable. If you haven't been in a position where comments have been made towards you based on sex, race, etc then you need to step aside. Time for the old boys club to disappear for good and for the better.

oldjones · Feb 18, 2018

mclarkez1980 said:
Sorry to say but guys chiming in on this is laughable. If you haven't been in a position where comments have been made towards you based on sex, race, etc then you need to step aside. Time for the old boys club to disappear for good and for the better.

Every guy I know has had comments about his race/ethnicity, degree of manhood, native intelligence or sex appeal directed at him, as have I. Unless you're referring to something different, the 'old boys club' takes members from elementary school on up. From what I hear, although the details and degree differ, much the same is true for girls and women.

Would you care to clarify your point?

Smallcock · Feb 18, 2018

mclarkez1980 said:
Sorry to say but guys chiming in on this is laughable. If you haven't been in a position where comments have been made towards you based on sex, race, etc then you need to step aside. Time for the old boys club to disappear for good and for the better.

You live in a fantasy world. Every generation has its own club and always will. In fact, someone at your work probably thinks you're part of the boy's club. See how easy it is to misdirect and point the finger?

sempel · Feb 18, 2018

mclarkez1980 said:
Sorry to say but guys chiming in on this is laughable. If you haven't been in a position where comments have been made towards you based on sex, race, etc then you need to step aside. Time for the old boys club to disappear for good and for the better.

What old boys' club? In this specific situation which is what this thread is about, it's a lady leading the charge along with some other female execs. This is just an example of how the pendulum has shifted to the other side along with an example of guilt based on suspect sources being used to make decisions.

Chimpanzeethat · Feb 18, 2018

not surprised in the least at the o.p.

I too wonder where this will all end up. Common sense is a thing of the past. Women I know and whose opinion I valued openly tell me there's nothing wrong with innocent men losing careers unjustly if the result is an improved sexual responsibility in society. Our daughter is 21 and recently told her mom she's going to cut us off because we don't agree with what she's being taught about white privilege in school. It's nuts out here.

Terminator2000 · Feb 18, 2018

Chimpanzeethat said:
not surprised in the least at the o.p.

I too wonder where this will all end up. Common sense is a thing of the past. Women I know and whose opinion I valued openly tell me there's nothing wrong with innocent men losing careers unjustly if the result is an improved sexual responsibility in society. Our daughter is 21 and recently told her mom she's going to cut us off because we don't agree with what she's being taught about white privilege in school. It's nuts out here.

chimpanzeethat, its true. for some women, common sense goes out the window and they have no grasp on the concept of common sense whatsoever. i dont know how they function in life
be careful around these women. theyre dangerous. theyll attack you for reasons that dont even make sense

also, some guys are like this too. theyll do things for reasons that dont even make sense also.

IRIS · Feb 18, 2018

Welcome in this sick liberal-feminist fucked up world. It's a shame what happen these days around the world with men, or anyone who's not agree or criticize these hateful creatures.

[url=https://postimages.org/]

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essguy_ · Feb 18, 2018

The company in the OP is fucked up. It has nothing to do with liberals or feminists or anything else. It’s just very bad management. In fact from the subsequent description from the OP, I wonder where they get money to hire consultants because it’s hard to believe such a company would be profitable enough and the only re-org should be mass layoffs.

In fact, I wonder if this entire thread is just bull shit.

kkelso · Feb 18, 2018

essguy_ said:
The company in the OP is fucked up. It has nothing to do with liberals or feminists or anything else. It’s just very bad management. In fact from the subsequent description from the OP, I wonder where they get money to hire consultants because it’s hard to believe such a company would be profitable enough and the only re-org should be mass layoffs.

In fact, I wonder if this entire thread is just bull shit.

The company I referenced is no different than a dozen other companies I've worked with. They aren't idiots, it's simply that what worked for years and years doesn't work any longer. They will adapt or they will cease to exist.

The picture most people have of how the average corporation functions at the top is fantasy built out of too many movies and TV shows. The gender politics alone, even *before* #metoo, is enough to keep you out of the stock market permanently.

KK

lomotil · Feb 18, 2018

IRIS said:
Welcome in this sick liberal-feminist fucked up world. It's a shame what happen these days around the world with men, or anyone who's not agree or criticize these hateful creatures.

[url=https://postimages.org/][/URL]

The antics of "sick fucked up liberal feminist" and egregious Weinstein types makes it difficult for the rest of us eh?

#metoo Mentality Hitting Closer to Home

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