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Thread: Btcoin: Currency of the future or a scam?

  1. #1

    Question Btcoin: Currency of the future or a scam?

    I did a lot of research over the last few days, and even bought $250 worth of Bitcoin on Coinbase.com.

    These are my findings:

    I was shocked when they took a $9 transaction fee. It seems that this is the norm, and it goes to the Bitcoin miners, not Coinbase. Not only that, but as Bitcoin's price rises, transaction fees can reach much higher, $50 and up. This is because the miners will process those who pay higher fees first. So imagine if you're trying to sell or buy a pack of candy for a $1, or transfer $10 to a friend, and end up paying $50 to process it.

    The other major problem is transaction time. It takes at the fastest 10 minutes for a transaction to be confirmed. But many take hours, or even days. OR they never get confirmed, since there transaction fees are not high enough. This a glaring flaw. In order for Bitcoin to work, it must treat all transactions equally, and the first transaction should be processed first. And it goes without saying that every single transaction should be processed.

    Also, did you know that Bitcoin can only process 7 transactions a second?? I could not believe that when I read it. There is NO WAY Bitcoin will be used globally, handling millions or billions of transactions. For comparison, VISA can process 25,000 transactions a second.

    Besides that, there are at least a dozen other problems with Bitcoin, including:

    -Government regulation. Governments will restrict how Bitcoin is used, or even outright ban it, as in many countries right now, such as China.
    -Competing crypto currencies. Bitcoin is in the lead, but there are hundreds of other competitors. All it takes is one to dethrone Bitcoin.
    -Massive volatility. No currency will be widely adopted if its value fluctuates wildly from one hour to the next.

    In theory, cyrptocurrency is a great idea. It's a way to send money instantaneously to anyone around the world directly, with no fees, and no middleman.

    However, right now, there is no way it will work. High transaction fees, slow processing times, etc will doom Bitcoin unless it evolves.

    Think of all the technologies that were hot at first, and great ideas, but eventually died and dethroned:

    VHS, Beta, Laser Disk, walkman, CD players, Blockbuster, Napster, Limewire, Myspace, ICQ, AOL, Yahoo, Alta Vista, Excite, etc....

    This does not mean Bitcoin will drop in value. Far from it. Because many people are buying it as an investment, rather than a currency, it has a high demand. And since the supply is limited, the price will go up. Maybe up to even $500,000 or more. But unless, Bitcoin has intrinsic value as a currency is widely adopted worldwide, eventually the bubble will burst, and Bitcoin will be worthless. Many compare it to the tulip bubble in Holland, where hoarding and speculation brought the price of a tulip all the way up to the price of a house.

    So, to summarize, if Bitcoin evolves and solves all its problems, it can be revolutionary, just like the Internet itself. However, there are many hurdles it must overcome to survive. If it does, it will be revolutionize how we use money.

    My feeling is that cryptocurrency is going to be the future. But whether Bitcoin is going to be the survivor, I don't know. Imagine all the things we can do online now, such as stream from Netflix, download gigabytes in seconds, etc. When the Internet first appeared with dial up, those things would have been impossible to do. But the Internet technology evolved to meet demand, and if Bitcoin does the same, it will be the future.

    What do you think? Do you own Bitcoin? How much? Do you use it as a currency, or hold it as an investment.

    I am currently thinking of buying 1 entire Bitcoin ($12,000) and hold it if and when it reaches $300,000. If I lose it, it will not be devastating, but if it goes to $300,000, and Bitcoin widely used worldwide, it might even to go 1 million in the future.

  2. #2
    1 million? So 22 million possible bitcoins so you would have a total market cap of 22 trillion for bitcoin?

    lol

    Also the only way to withdraw from Coinbase in Canada is to transfer your coins to another exchange like Quadriga

  3. #3
    Currency of the short term future (traders fast enough to get in and out for profit)

    Scam for the long term future (bagholders)

  4. #4
    Can't speculate as to whether it's the future or a scam, but I did ok with it.
    Got in later than I wish I had, but still at a pretty good time.
    Watched it sky rocket, cashed out triple what I had put in and left the rest to ride out the waves.
    Whatever happens now will either be a nice bonus for me or not, but either way, I made some good $$$$ in a relatively short period of time.
    Was I "timing the market"? Not at all. I just got lucky.

  5. #5
    Ponzi Scam.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by AJstar View Post
    Ponzi Scam.
    That was Bitconnect lol.

    Bitcoin itself is not a scam but it can be used as a tool to scam.

  7. #7
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    Bitcoin will go the way of Napster but Blockchain will survive.

    Bitcoin is not supported by any national treasury and US Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin recently spoke out against it as a source of funding for illegal activities. Blockchain is now Blockchain Luxembourg SA, part of the money market of that country.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/profiles/c...-luxembourg-sa

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious Von View Post
    Bitcoin will go the way of Napster but Blockchain will survive.

    Bitcoin is not supported by any national treasury and US Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin recently spoke out against it as a source of funding for illegal activities. Blockchain is now Blockchain Luxembourg SA, part of the money market of that country.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/profiles/c...-luxembourg-sa
    Yes - it’s the technology behind that is the value. On this front, I think you’d be better to follow Ethereum and the people involved as it’s more of a technology platform vs a strict crypto-currency.

  9. #9
    IMO, it's a total scam, and I can't believe that there are so many people investing in it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkynuts View Post
    I am currently thinking of buying 1 entire Bitcoin ($12,000) and hold it if and when it reaches $300,000. If I lose it, it will not be devastating, but if it goes to $300,000, and Bitcoin widely used worldwide, it might even to go 1 million in the future.
    you have a very optimistic forecast. Even with the fees, you can still make or lose a lot of money in the short term, but to see it at those levels, something drastic needs to happen with our fiat currency



    French kissing involves all 34 muscles in the face.
    A pucker kiss involves only 2.


  11. #11
    I still fail to buy into the concept. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, nor is it backed by the resources of any country. It's entire "value" seems to be that it is "secret" outside of the control of central banks.

    To me it has greater similarities to a Ponzi Scheme than it does to a currency.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aardvark154 View Post
    I still fail to buy into the concept. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, nor is it backed by the resources of any country. It's entire "value" seems to be that it is "secret" outside of the control of central banks.

    To me it has greater similarities to a Ponzi Scheme than it does to a currency.
    Exactly, there are no fundamental in which to price if out therefore it is pure speculation and many traders are using technical analysis to price out upcoming trends. Then throw in the speculators that cause these quick rises and falls and you got a boiler room scenario. Most firms dont even allow trading in this security and they tell their clients the same thing.

    However, sooner or later a new crypto currency will come around that is fully regulated by major governing bodies with a market and laws to regulate trading ... that body will come from the current financial market members .. because right now they are on the outside, they will lobby and then they will control the action.

    FYI, I did own Bitcoin at one time and during that time did a lot of research that really proved unfruitful in regards to correlation and such, I got out last year.

    VBB
    Some people are like slinkies ... they are not really good for anything ... but, they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aardvark154 View Post
    I still fail to buy into the concept. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, nor is it backed by the resources of any country. It's entire "value" seems to be that it is "secret" outside of the control of central banks.

    To me it has greater similarities to a Ponzi Scheme than it does to a currency.
    Paper money also has no intrinsic value, it is just paper. It is valuable because there is faith that others will honor it for goods and services. The more people who use it and honor it, the stronger its value. That is why the US dollar is one of the most legitimate currencies worldwide, as opposed to the Zimbawbe currency.

  14. #14
    I really don't understand it completely, but I thought it was a way trade without a taxable paper trail or something like that.

  15. #15
    I think “scam” or “currency of the future” is a bit of a knee jerk to what it actually is.

    Cryptocurrency just makes sense in a decentralized world. Some will absolutely see value in its use and I do believe Bitcoin still seems like the most likely form of cryptocurrency in current circulation that has the legs to go the distance.

    But is it really the currency of the future? It’s hard to see it surpassing transitional currencies while nations still exist. It’s just not practical to completely anonymize all of the world’s financial transactions.

    At-least while there are governments, there will still be centralized currencies.

    That said, I could see a pretty massive correction coming for a lot of different reasons. If you can afford it dropping back to $1,200, it might be fun to see where it goes for awhile. The complexities of a market like this, complexities traditional markets are mostly insulated from, make this too risky for me to hold as an actual investment.

    Im not sure what your portfolio looks like, but if this is your first major investment, maybe reconsider. You can learn a lot very quickly with that kind of money in more traditional investment opportunities, and I just can’t see what has warranted the jump it’s made to $13,000 over the past year after so many years of steady growth below the $1,000 level.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by User 123 View Post
    That was Bitconnect lol.

    Bitcoin itself is not a scam but it can be used as a tool to scam.
    Of course it it.
    While the technology is real,
    There is nothing but air backing it up other than perception & hope.
    Cost of upkeep & transactions are ridiculous
    The capped nature of the system is too small to work in a large scale economy
    Seriously,who wants .000001 of a bitcoin?
    Bitcoin itself is older tech already & no one takes ownership to upgrade itself
    Governments will never allow this to grow as it saps taxes & control away from their power
    So far it is small potatoes & Gov'ts are slow to react, but just wait for it
    At that point the value will go to zero & then tell the last holders of Bitcoin that all is good
    No, I stand on Ponzi

    Blockchain may have a future & Gov'ts may adopt & regulate their versions, however at that point it will just be a digital fiat currency that can & will be manipulated to be depreciated & taxed to death.
    All currencies eventually fail, some just take a few centuries to die.

  17. #17
    at this point, looks like a zero sum game.

  18. #18
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    I'm admittedly older and somewhat out of the loop, but I just don't see the need or usefulness of crypto currency other than as an untraceable method for paying for illegal activities or tax avoidance. Or maybe to further the agenda of one world government.

    The American dollar is mostly accepted as a method of payment worldwide and I can make payments or transfer funds using Amex, Visa, Master Card, PayPal, Western Union or bank global money transfer services.

    To me it seems like a Ponzi scheme but there is probably money to be made as long as your are not the last person holding the coin when it's value collapses.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by stinkynuts View Post

    This does not mean Bitcoin will drop in value. Far from it. Because many people are buying it as an investment, rather than a currency, it has a high demand. And since the supply is limited, the price will go up. Maybe up to even $500,000 or more. But unless, Bitcoin has intrinsic value as a currency is widely adopted worldwide, eventually the bubble will burst, and Bitcoin will be worthless. Many compare it to the tulip bubble in Holland, where hoarding and speculation brought the price of a tulip all the way up to the price of a house.
    Supply of Bitcoin may be limited, but anyone can create their own cryptocurrency, so the supply of cryptocurrencies is theoretically unlimited.

    Kodak recently announced they are creating their own cryptocurrecy.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by User 123 View Post
    That was Bitconnect lol.

    Bitcoin itself is not a scam but it can be used as a tool to scam.
    Haha. Ya, Bitconnect. Guess what? I just checked and it's still around. It dropped about 99% in value but is still active!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Taxman2011/12 View Post
    Supply of Bitcoin may be limited, but anyone can create their own cryptocurrency, so the supply of cryptocurrencies is theoretically unlimited.

    Kodak recently announced they are creating their own cryptocurrecy.
    Yup. Anyone can. Check this list out and the amount of fictitious value that has been created by tulip craze "investors". Hell, at least a tulip has a physical worth and purpose!

    Check out the bottom of the list. There's about 500 of them that they can't even track a market cap because they can't even figure out how many coins there even are.

    https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Occasionally View Post
    Yup. Anyone can. Check this list out and the amount of fictitious value that has been created by tulip craze "investors". Hell, at least a tulip has a physical worth and purpose!

    Check out the bottom of the list. There's about 500 of them that they can't even track a market cap because they can't even figure out how many coins there even are.

    https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/
    Actually there are over 1800 of these & climbing.
    I don't know why Terb has not yet started it's own .

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Occasionally View Post
    Yup. Anyone can. Check this list out and the amount of fictitious value that has been created by tulip craze "investors". Hell, at least a tulip has a physical worth and purpose!

    Check out the bottom of the list. There's about 500 of them that they can't even track a market cap because they can't even figure out how many coins there even are.

    https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/
    The reason why some coins dont have a marketcap is because the creator of the coin didn't submit that information to coinmarketcap yet. Usually it takes 20-30 days for the marketcap to show up as probably coinmarketcap needs to verify it, etc. Also, coinmarketcap lists anything, atleast 30% of the coins listed on coinmarketcap are shitcoins/scamcoins. I expect another bull run for Bitcoin in the upcoming months (up to 20k USD). I dont think Bitcoin is going anywhere, if you have spare money, its stupid not go invest in a little bit of it, if anything you can pull out at a 25% loss, but the reward of getting a 5x-10x your money is well worth the risk, imo. Obviously Bitcoin wont 5x-10x your money, but if you put your money into a legit coin with a small market cap and keep it there for a few months, you're well on your way to a 2-3x at the least.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Occasionally View Post
    Currency of the short term future (traders fast enough to get in and out for profit)

    Scam for the long term future (bagholders)
    Agreed. There's money to be made for those who can time when they buy and sell. There's been some suggestion that there are people who can control this and have made money buy spiking the price and selling. So even for the average person looking to do the short term game it is tricky.

    I'd avoid anything that promises to be a get rich quick scheme. You're better off keeping down your debts, maxing out TFSA and RRSPs, keep your spending down etc.

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