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Dutch make everyone an organ donor

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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My homecountry of Holland just passed a law that says everyone who dies is instantly an organ donor.
Its a good law. I think it should become law in Canada as well:

http://torontosun.com/health/nether...ault/wcm/dc2a7a71-8dd1-4d71-8bc4-3998e91430f6

Netherlands passes law making everyone an organ donor by default

Dutch senators have approved a new law that makes everybody a potential organ donor unless they decide to opt out of the system.

The new system narrowly passed a vote in the upper house of the Dutch parliament Tuesday. The lower house last year passed the legislation with a one-vote majority.

The new law’s drafter, lawmaker Pia Dijkstra, says under the new system — which is similar to donation laws in Belgium and Spain — every person over 18 who is not yet registered as a donor will receive a letter asking if they want to donate their organs after death.

Those who do not respond will be considered organ donors, although they will be able to amend their status at any time
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,591
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No-brainer. As long as there's an opt-out, being an organ donor should be the default.
 

essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
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The problem with organ donation became worse when Provinces went to the plastic driver's licenses. Eg: In Ontario - with the old paper licenses the organ donation consent was a part of the license - you signed it and kept it attached OR you detached it. With the plastic licenses - the organ donation forms are a completely separate step and many people do not bother or are not even aware of it.

So I agree with the others - it should be automatic, with an option to opt-out. This would definitely help to reduce the organ shortage.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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I'm against it.

The default should be no donation. But if you want to, then apply and say yes.

Just because you are dead doesn't mean the government should take everything from you.... especially from someone who is deceased. The government could at least have some dignity for a dead person and not treat someone as spare parts.
 

sempel

Banned
Feb 23, 2017
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I'm against it.

The default should be no donation. But if you want to, then apply and say yes.

Just because you are dead doesn't mean the government should take everything from you.... especially from someone who is deceased. The government could at least have some dignity for a dead person and not treat someone as spare parts.
The problem is that a number of people are lazy, some people don't know where/how, etc - for a number of reasons people who would be willing to donate don't. By making the default organ donation, you are putting the onus on those who want to opt out to put in the effort to get that accomplished. I think you'd have an argument if it was MANDATORY donation i.e. no choice - everyone must donate. I think that would be a violation even though it would save so many more lives.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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I'm against it.

The default should be no donation. But if you want to, then apply and say yes.

Just because you are dead doesn't mean the government should take everything from you.... especially from someone who is deceased. The government could at least have some dignity for a dead person and not treat someone as spare parts.
They can't if you tell them they can't. If you don't care enough to do that little thing, why shouldn't you be spare parts instead of lawn fertilizer, or smoke pollution?

The Netherlands standard guarantees that everyone's life can have at least the meaning and purpose of helping others in that harmless but important way. Unless you decide not to.

If we were talking Canada, all that would change is you couldn't leave that decision for your family to make.

Yay for Holland!
 

Tuscany

Member
Nov 18, 2010
94
1
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I'm against it.

The default should be no donation. But if you want to, then apply and say yes.

Just because you are dead doesn't mean the government should take everything from you.... especially from someone who is deceased. The government could at least have some dignity for a dead person and not treat someone as spare parts.
Very good point.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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They can't if you tell them they can't. If you don't care enough to do that little thing, why shouldn't you be spare parts instead of lawn fertilizer, or smoke pollution?

The Netherlands standard guarantees that everyone's life can have at least the meaning and purpose of helping others in that harmless but important way. Unless you decide not to.

If we were talking Canada, all that would change is you couldn't leave that decision for your family to make.

Yay for Holland!
Same can said otherwise, all an organ donater has to do is spend 2 minutes signing off on something that says they approve of organ donations.

No need for the kinds of things cable companies are known for... that negative option billing where they do what they want unless you tell them to stop. A person is dead. Leave the body alone.
 

renuck

New member
May 12, 2017
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The problem with organ donation became worse when Provinces went to the plastic driver's licenses. Eg: In Ontario - with the old paper licenses the organ donation consent was a part of the license - you signed it and kept it attached OR you detached it. With the plastic licenses - the organ donation forms are a completely separate step and many people do not bother or are not even aware of it.

So I agree with the others - it should be automatic, with an option to opt-out. This would definitely help to reduce the organ shortage.
I'll add another vote for the automatic default being an organ donor with the option to opt out. To me this makes way more sense rather then let all those life saving organs go to waste because of someones ignorance or negligence not to opt in.

Thanks for the heads up that things are different with the new licenses. I filled out my organ donor card way back when I was 16 on the old licenses. - I just checked and I was registered as an organ donor so I guess it held over from way back. Worth it to verify though.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,591
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Same can said otherwise, all an organ donater has to do is spend 2 minutes signing off on something that says they approve of organ donations.
The difference is that ambivalence is costing lives. Many people don't care one way or the other, or can't make the small effort required to fill out the paperwork. It's far easier to fill out paperwork for something you object to than it is to make the effort when you don't really care.

In other words, this law is about the "neutrals", not the "very against" or "very for". Which is why I think the default should be saving lives.
 

Mr Bret

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2012
5,386
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I'm against it.

The default should be no donation. But if you want to, then apply and say yes.

Just because you are dead doesn't mean the government should take everything from you.... especially from someone who is deceased. The government could at least have some dignity for a dead person and not treat someone as spare parts.
I wonder if you'd change your tune if you or one of your loved ones was desperately awaiting an organ donation.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Same can said otherwise, all an organ donater has to do is spend 2 minutes signing off on something that says they approve of organ donations.
It is not the same. Presently, you must make an effort to sign your consent to have your organs donated. However it has no legal force to compel anyone to do so, and your family/survivors can ignore your wishes and refuse to donate them, or donate them in spite of your wishes. Our default is, NO, unless the family says 'yes'. There certainly are all sorts of ways our laws could be revised to make your expressed wishes prevail. The Dutch simply chose one with a different default, one that doesn't waste a life and its remains. And unlike Canada, your survivors can't ignore it.
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PS: Your description of negative option is a bit askew. It was the default billing without the user's consent to the cost that was unethical and outlawed. In fact, defaults are built into every transaction involving choice, we'd be hamstrung without them. In organ donation, there is no cost to you, but you can still refuse under the Dutch system. But you must do it, your corpse cannot. Just like Canada. Except as noted, here no one has any real say until there is a corpse.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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so will emergency room doctors be obligated to work for the benefit of accident victims or transplant recipients?
Accident victims — particularly the young men who are the most frequent motorcycle casualties — have always been a prime but scarce source of healthy organs. If you've seen too many horror flix, and images of evil doctors make you fret, remember that transplanting dead organs is a poor bet and they still want you to live. Even if the only hope left is for the kidneys, heart and lungs you're hosting, they're still gonna try hard to keep you going.

But classical economics says a rule like the Dutch one would increase the organ supply, and thus decrease the desirability of yours. So that should calm your fears. And no one has suggested revising the Hippocratic oath.

But after you die, what's the harm?
 

essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
4,432
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I for one signed my donor card the day I could drive. I also told my family so that they're on board. What the heck am I going to need them for when I'm gone? It gives me peace of mind knowing that a life or more may be saved!
Thumbs up on this. I did the same. My family are 100% on board and all have signed their consents too - there is a real shortage of organs and wait times are huge.

Here is a link to the Ontario consent forms - they've improved it since my daughter got her license (this was just a few years ago, but remember having to download and then print and sign forms which we mailed in). It wouldn't hurt for the Govt to run a simple ad campaign which would point out the need and the process to consent - a lot of people who would be willing to donate are likely not aware of the process.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/organ-and-tissue-donor-registration
 

doggee_01

Active member
Jul 11, 2003
8,353
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I for one signed my donor card the day I could drive. I also told my family so that they're on board. What the heck am I going to need them for when I'm gone? It gives me peace of mind knowing that a life or more may be saved!
good for you i am all for this......... but you chose to do it and that is the way it should be. default no donar you make the choice.
 

SoftHands813

Casual Observer
Jan 2, 2008
716
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It would be a step in the right direction if legislators would take away the family veto after death.

Grieving families are seldom in a clear state of mind to make a rational decision on organ donation, and unfortunately the timing of that decision has to be swift.

Better for the donor to have made the decision in advance, and the family have to live with it (like it or not).

You can bequeath your possessions to others, and that's (usually) air-tight, so why not have the same protection when you "bequeath" your organs?
 

managee

Banned
Jun 19, 2013
1,731
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+1 for automatic donor status, or at-least a status that doesn’t reset to nondoner when you get a new card.

If you ACTUALLY care about keeping your organs after you die, I’m sure you’ll find the time to send in your opt-out form. I think there’s a lot of us who just can’t be bothered every time you renew to do this, but who genuinely think “why not?”

I don’t give a fuck what you do with my organs, retinas, skin or anything else that might help someone else after I die. I don’t see why I’d need them/it, and I can’t see myself caring at that point. Since I’ll be dead.

I always liked the idea of a system where you opt-in at 18, and have the ability to receive a donor organ should it ever be necessary, or you choose not to participate in the program by opting out, and you can’t put your name on the transplant list should you ever need a transplant.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts