How will President “Cadet Bone Spurs” put Tammy Duckworth down?

Yet another example of "The past is a foreign country. . ."

Senator Duckworth was only seven years old when Saigon fell, hence she has no personal memory of the War in Vietnam or of the draft, how unpopular the war became in the U.S. and how many particularly in liberal circles saw it as patriotic to do their utmost to avoid service in Vietnam. As more traditional U.S. views towards military service reemerged over the subsequent 15 years and even more so over the following 26+ years it is ironic how another quotation "time makes ancient good uncouth" has come into play. So that we now have a Democratic Senator feeling quite safe in saying that the values of Senator Eugene Mccarthy, and of a large percentage of the 1968 Democratic Convention (the year Senator Duckworth was born) are to be mocked.

essguy_ said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/369960-dem-slams-trump-i-wont-be-lectured-on-military-needs-by-a-five-deferment


Let me take a first guess: The President Man-child will tweet that he doesn’t like pilots who get shot down and lose their legs... he likes winners!

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That was Woodpeckers argument against McCain....

Wasn’t Carter the last POTUS to serve in active duty? That didn’t work out that well.

onthebottom said:

Wasn’t Carter the last POTUS to serve in active duty? That didn’t work out that well.

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President Reagan was an active duty Army Officer for 3 1/2 years during World War II. Likewise President Bush (41) was an active duty Naval Aviator for about three years.

It is a pendulum the entire run from William Howard Taft to Franklin Roosevelt were not military veterans.

Aardvark154 said:

Yet another example of "The past is a foreign country. . ."

Senator Duckworth was only seven years old when Saigon fell, hence she has no personal memory of the War in Vietnam or of the draft, how unpopular the war became in the U.S. and how many particularly in liberal circles saw it as patriotic to do their utmost to avoid service in Vietnam. As more traditional U.S. views towards military service reemerged over the subsequent 15 years and even more so over the following 26+ years it is ironic how another quotation "time makes ancient good uncouth" has come into play. So that we now have a Democratic Senator feeling quite safe in saying that the values of Senator Eugene Mccarthy, and of a large percentage of the 1968 Democratic Convention (the year Senator Duckworth was born) are to be mocked.

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If I read you right, you're saying even if Trump was a weasely liberal-type cowardly draft-dodger back in Viet Nam days, she shouldn't say so because it was quite a popular position back then.

Presumably no one should point such nasty fingers at other people people doing what's popular either? Because such things are relative and morality changes over time?

Wouldn't it be simpler just to point out that no one in her war was drafted, and what he managed to defer was forced military service in an even less justifiable and more deadly war?

oldjones said:

If I read you right. . .

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You read me as saying vast numbers of people of the age cohort 65-74 including many of those who are Democratic Party Saints worked quite hard and pulled strings to get draft deferments, while others joined the Reserves in the expectation that they would not be mobilized. To now start throwing around snarky comments like "Cadet Bone Spurs" is to apply present day values to the world of roughly half a century ago.

Even among military veterans there is a real disconnect, many Vietnam period veterans of historic and distinguished Reserve units, found it next to incomprehensible when their successors in the post 9/11 world volunteered to augment regular and sister reserve units which were called up to active duty, rather than counting their lucky stars the unit hadn't itself been activated.

Aardvark154 said:

You read me as saying vast numbers of people of the age cohort 65-74 including many of those who are Democratic Party Saints worked quite hard and pulled strings to get draft deferments, while others joined the Reserves in the expectation that they would not be mobilized. To now start throwing around snarky comments like "Cadet Bone Spurs" is to apply present day values to the world of roughly half a century ago.

Even among military veterans there is a real disconnect, many Vietnam period veterans of historic and distinguished Reserve units, found it next to incomprehensible when their successors in the post 9/11 world volunteered to augment regular and sister reserve units which were called up to active duty, rather than counting their lucky stars the unit hadn't itself been activated.

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If that cohort of yours (and mine) was wrong to do so, so was Cadet Bone Spurs. Unless circumstances alter cases. Or time excuses all sins. But I'm glad you mentioned the Dubya deferment mechanism. As the head-count seems to be all we agree on, it's good to remind us Donny wasn't the only eventual President ducking 'Nam. I'm just disappointed you seem to want to excuse those boys, but continue slagging those 'Democratic Party Saints' and others. If I read you right.

But perhaps I overlooked you saying he was as right — or wrong — to do what he could to avoid the draft as any of the many thousands of others, some of them in high office today. And like them, must live with all the consequences. You might point me to the place.

As for volunteering to serve, like voting they both count as good by definition, and there are as many reasons as people deciding to do either, and no one has any business inventing a reason for anyone else's decision only to criticize it.

Compulsion and force, on the other hand, are never good.

Aardvark154 said:

You read me as saying vast numbers of people of the age cohort 65-74 including many of those who are Democratic Party Saints worked quite hard and pulled strings to get draft deferments, while others joined the Reserves in the expectation that they would not be mobilized. To now start throwing around snarky comments like "Cadet Bone Spurs" is to apply present day values to the world of roughly half a century ago.

Even among military veterans there is a real disconnect, many Vietnam period veterans of historic and distinguished Reserve units, found it next to incomprehensible when their successors in the post 9/11 world volunteered to augment regular and sister reserve units which were called up to active duty, rather than counting their lucky stars the unit hadn't itself been activated.

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Trump also belittled a Gold Star family.
Cadet Bone Spurs is a well earned name for someone who is supposed to be leading the military and claiming that the dems are harming them by not conceding to all of Trump's demands.
Its only Trump and DACA that's keeping the gov't closed.

Essguy and Frankfooter, are you aware of the maxim "Hard cases make bad law"? That is the trap you are falling into. You dislike the President, therefore anything negative is great as far as you are concerned. That is a dangerous way to view the world.

Essguy, if you read what I've posted in this thread, you would certainly be able to determine that I'm discussing historical accuracy and the issue of Vietnam period revisionism, rather than rabidly supporting the President.

There is also the overtone that only those who are military veterans are qualified political leaders. This is particularly strange when in both Canada and the U.S.A. our Prime Ministers and Presidents in both World War I and World War II were not military veterans.