Fun facts about the dreamers
- Thread starter Smallcock
- Start date
What are the comparable statistics for native born Americans?
Produce those and then factor in that DACA candidates grew up with illegal parents who earned far less than those native born Americans and had far fewer opportunities. That should explain the figures that you put forward - assuming they're true in the first place. In particular, "some form of welfare" is pretty broad and that could presumably included subsidized housing, subsidized daycare, student grants, etc.
Even points-based immigration systems have DACA type exemptions. Canada does as well, although it's merit based to a greater extent than the US's. Most administrations are going to consider deporting people who have grown up in the country to be inhumane.
Actually it's continue Daca but put in place the means so it doesn't happen again.
Honestly you can't ship people out like this. And I'm betting those stats are not as bleak as that.
And from a political standpoint there is a consistent approval of high 80's for them to stay. Why die on this hill.
Which might be an interesting figure -- however, the operative thing in your statement is native born, please name me a country in the world where people who are in the country illegally are granted the same privileges as those who are native born.
That isn't what I'd say.
First almost immediate Citizenship for those serving in the U.S. Armed Forces. Expedited Citizenship for those with University Degrees (which of course includes the Medical Students and Residents one hears about). As to the rest those married to U.S. Citizens "Green Card" status the same as other spouses of U.S. Citizens, perhaps the same for those who have U.S. National children --- all the others . . . . convince me why they shouldn't be deported other than compassion.
Actually in this case I'd say compassion is a good one. Minus anyone with a criminal record.
This Susan woman is a blatant liar, in the way she concocts all the fake data about the DACA dreamers.
She claims that 83% of the Dreamers do not have a college degree. In fact 72% are in higher education. 9/10 of them have jobs and the US would lose $460 billion GDP in the next 10years if these Dreamers were removed from the USA. More than 1,800 governors, attorneys general, mayors, state representatives, judges, police chiefs and other leaders signed onto a letter supporting Dreamers and DACA recipients.
http://www.newsweek.com/dreamers-daca-statistics-trump-deadline-657201
She claims that 83% of the Dreamers do not have a college degree. In fact 72% are in higher education. 9/10 of them have jobs and the US would lose $460 billion GDP in the next 10years if these Dreamers were removed from the USA. More than 1,800 governors, attorneys general, mayors, state representatives, judges, police chiefs and other leaders signed onto a letter supporting Dreamers and DACA recipients.
http://www.newsweek.com/dreamers-daca-statistics-trump-deadline-657201
Thanks for saving me some time of posting a rebuttal with a ton of easily found supporting evidence. Susan's post is indeed largely full of false or misleading information worthy of Roger Stone. I was able to verify that most of her stats were indeed fake, although a couple are true. However in those cases; i.e. 1% served in the military, it was still a higher number than the American population (.5% served in the military).
I took a few minutes and looked through her Twitter posts. LOL, I'm surprised C-M doesn't use her as a source. Smallcock has been posting even more fake information the last few months than usual.
Undocumented Immigrants, U.S. Citizens, and Convicted Criminals in Arizona
published by Crime Prevention Research Center in Arizona
Date Written: January 11, 2018
ABSTRACT
Using newly released detailed data on all prisoners who entered the Arizona state prison from January 1985 through June 2017, we are able to separate non-U.S. citizens by whether they are illegal or legal residents. Unlike other studies, these data do not rely on self-reporting of criminal backgrounds. Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens. Yet, there are several reasons that these numbers are likely to underestimate the share of crime committed by undocumented immigrants. There are dramatic differences between in the criminal histories of convicts who are U.S. citizens and undocumented immigrants.
Young convicts are especially likely to be undocumented immigrants. While undocumented immigrants from 15 to 35 years of age make up slightly over two percent of the Arizona population, they make up about eight percent of the prison population. Even after adjusting for the fact that young people commit crime at higher rates, young undocumented immigrants commit crime at twice the rate of young U.S. citizens. These undocumented immigrants also tend to commit more serious crimes.
If undocumented immigrants committed crime nationally as they do in Arizona, in 2016 they would have been responsible for over 1,000 more murders, 5,200 rapes, 8,900 robberies, 25,300 aggravated assaults, and 26,900 burglaries.
Hmmmmm....rather interesting
published by Crime Prevention Research Center in Arizona
Date Written: January 11, 2018
ABSTRACT
Using newly released detailed data on all prisoners who entered the Arizona state prison from January 1985 through June 2017, we are able to separate non-U.S. citizens by whether they are illegal or legal residents. Unlike other studies, these data do not rely on self-reporting of criminal backgrounds. Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens. Yet, there are several reasons that these numbers are likely to underestimate the share of crime committed by undocumented immigrants. There are dramatic differences between in the criminal histories of convicts who are U.S. citizens and undocumented immigrants.
Young convicts are especially likely to be undocumented immigrants. While undocumented immigrants from 15 to 35 years of age make up slightly over two percent of the Arizona population, they make up about eight percent of the prison population. Even after adjusting for the fact that young people commit crime at higher rates, young undocumented immigrants commit crime at twice the rate of young U.S. citizens. These undocumented immigrants also tend to commit more serious crimes.
If undocumented immigrants committed crime nationally as they do in Arizona, in 2016 they would have been responsible for over 1,000 more murders, 5,200 rapes, 8,900 robberies, 25,300 aggravated assaults, and 26,900 burglaries.
Hmmmmm....rather interesting
lol a few truths and a bunch of BS please show me a link to an actual study that claims 72% are in higher education.
also links please to these from your quoted article from newsweek :
Their average hourly wage was $17.46 an hour, up from $10.29 before receiving DACA.
After getting DACA, nearly 80 percent of respondents said they got driver's licenses. About half became organ donors.
thanks in advance for clearing that up
I call BS on the above1st rebuttal: http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...mented-immigrants-filling-az-prisons-10049763
Lott is a far right political commentator and many of his papers/reports have been criticized for scientific method and accuracy in the past. That of course doesn't prove this report is invalid, but does go to his MO. I guess we'll have to wait for the Alabama stats become fully public and properly evaluated. Important to understand DACA participants (topic of this post) can't have any criminal activity on their record to be eligible. Interesting that these stats are from Alabama an immigrant (legal or not) unfriendly state - and not supported by other states' stats (so far). Wait and see.
Why should bver provide additional links? In your post #11 above, did you provide links to prove the following:lol a few truths and a bunch of BS please show me a link to an actual study that claims 72% are in higher education.
also links please to these from your quoted article from newsweek :
Their average hourly wage was $17.46 an hour, up from $10.29 before receiving DACA.
After getting DACA, nearly 80 percent of respondents said they got driver's licenses. About half became organ donors.
thanks in advance for clearing that up
- the source data for the study
- Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime
- They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences
- etc.
You didn't even bother to post a link to the original story <rolleyes>
Newsweek has much higher credibility than "Susan" especially when you read through Susan's other tweets. 10 minutes of googling will provide you other sources of the data you have requested - why is the alt-right so lazy??
lol it's late and I forgot the link, that's now corrected. the link to the complete report is here
10 seconds to get the info you requested. why are the alt-left so lazy?? highlight headline, right click, paste and search then click on the first link. it's really simple, but i am sorry to forget to link it.
as for my requests to bvr his article has no links for those particular studies and after a few minutes of searching i came up with nothing, so I look forward to Bvr's reply.
ps Newsweek have zero credibility these days it's a shadow of what it once was. I'm also looking forward to hearing why the Manhattan DA raided them this week and took all there back up servers.
and the phoenix new times is a left wing newspaper, so theres that. it's Arizona not Alabama
I guess it was late for you tooWhat does this have to do with what I posted?
No, it doesn't say that 73% of Dreamers are in higher education. You're not reading carefully.
Twitter is an active, not static source, that's it's whole point. Perhaps if you actually stated something here in the first place, there'd be no need to say again what you imagine it said but others failed to read as you did.
Thanks for telling us what it didn't say. But we still don't know the point you thought it did make that you want to share.
I think you miss the relevance of my question. The OP is suggesting that the Dreamers are so hopeless that the program should be cancelled. My response was to suggest that they are not so hopeless - indeed probably operating on about the same level as other non-privileged groups in the US.
If the US is NOT going to institute a points system and insist on well above average immigrants, then why should the Dreamers be above average? Based on the figures, I am guessing that the Dreamers are comparable to rural Southern Whites and probably better than inner city Blacks in terms of achievement.
Add in that illegal immigrants are less likely to be fined or placed on probation as they have no legit source of income that can support the ability to pay a fine and the very fact that they are perceived as being in breach of immigration laws would suggest to a prosecutor or judge that they are not trustworthy enough for probation. Therefore, this portion of the population is far more likely to simply be sentenced to jail. Add in as well that they may be disqualified from Legal Aid in AZ - not sure about that one. If so, they would be unable to afford competent counsel and elect to quickly plead guilty.
