This is how ignorant you have to be to call Haiti a 'shithole'

bver_hunter · Jan 17, 2018

Bud Plug said:
You must be getting confused. I haven't had anything to say about India (and I did see your comments about that, but I took them to reply to both Haiti and India, since you reference both in OTB's post), and I was definitely responding to a post about Haiti.

As to your other question, my theory (just a theory, no proof) is that Trump didn't actually use the word "shithole" but did use very similar language ("shithouse", "shitty old", etc.) which could be credibly misheard, especially by someone old, excitable and desperate to score political points. I think Trump let the inaccurate story breathe for a bit to allow his opponents to embarrass themselves with over-reaction premised on an inaccurate account. Then he came in later to poke a hole in the balloon. Classic trolling behaviour.

You must be confused as I only responded to the "India" part of the comment. The Haiti one is like whipping a dead horse, as there are tons and tons of those posts already.
Trump either said Shithole or Shithouse. No difference in the Implication that it is "Racist" either way. That "shitty old" is the first I've ever seen mentioned. The only person to embarrass himself is Trump, especially when the senators from either side of the house are condemning his statement. Off course to his cult following base, it is the "Gospel truth". Yes, classic trolling behaviour.

Bud Plug · Jan 17, 2018

bver_hunter said:
You must be confused as I only responded to the "India" part of the comment. The Haiti one is like whipping a dead horse, as there are tons and tons of those posts already.
Trump either said Shithole or Shithouse. No difference in the Implication that it is "Racist" either way. That "shitty old" is the first I've ever seen mentioned. The only person to embarrass himself is Trump, especially when the senators from either side of the house are condemning his statement. Off course to his cult following base, it is the "Gospel truth". Yes, classic trolling behaviour.

The part that you are getting wrong is that most people will not buy the "racist" characterization of the comments, regardless of the exact words used. Most people will just agree that it's not kind to call someone' s shithole country a shithole, especially if there is little that can be easily done to fix the problems. However, where that potentially rightful criticism gets off the rails is that Trump's words were intended to be private. So, to the extent that people trapped living in shitholes (or those sympathetic to their plight) are upset by the comments, they have only the Democrats to blame for upsetting them.

It's like the classic public school scenario. A (boy) tells B (girl), privately, that he thinks C (girl) is ugly. B, because she dislikes A and wants to befriend C, tells C what A said. C is is understandably upset. Who is the a-hole in this scenario? In my view, it's B, who broke confidence knowing that all that would be accomplished would be to upset C, which she did for her own advantage.

Butler1000 · Jan 17, 2018

bver_hunter said:
Was discussing about immigrants from India, that you called a "shithole" country. Anyway, why is Trump insistent that the did not mention the shithole name if it is so acceptable to his cult following base??

Guess the biggest shithole country after the second world war was Germany. The mess and destruction that they created during the second world war. Did not hear any American call them immigrants from a "shithole" country at that time.

Bad choice. Apparently the Germans chose not to steal the aid money but to use it to rebuild there nation.

As did Japan.

That's why they aren't shitholes.

Smallcock · Jan 17, 2018

bver_hunter said:
Guess the biggest shithole country after the second world war was Germany. The mess and destruction that they created during the second world war. Did not hear any American call them immigrants from a "shithole" country at that time.

I'm not sure it was a shithole but I would agree that Germany was a shithouse in 1945, and that's because its major cities had been bombed to shit after the US and Russia defeated the Nazi piece of shit that ruled Germany.

The shithouse was quickly rebuilt following the war. So, yes, there are many ways in which a country can become a shithole and at one time or another various countries have been shitholes. A country can go from a shithole to a great nation. Currently there are many countries in a state of shithole status and you can't deny that.

Americans did degrade Nazis and Germans before, during, and after the war. Germans were fortunate to have White skin so within a generation, they spoke English and interbred with Anglos to become "White Americans".

K Douglas · Jan 17, 2018

For the record Trump denies calling Haiti a shithole. But let's be honest it is. Sorry Michaelle Jean. Haiti has been given hundreds of billions of dollars in aid over the years and it's still the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. By a mile.
Yes it has been ravaged by natural disasters. But it's also been ravaged by corrupt and/or inept leadership for decades. Deforestation has taken away much of it's natural beauty. 'Tis a shame.

Frankfooter · Jan 17, 2018

K Douglas said:
For the record Trump denies calling Haiti a shithole. But let's be honest it is. Sorry Michaelle Jean. Haiti has been given hundreds of billions of dollars in aid over the years and it's still the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. By a mile.
Yes it has been ravaged by natural disasters. But it's also been ravaged by corrupt and/or inept leadership for decades. Deforestation has taken away much of it's natural beauty. 'Tis a shame.

The only debate now is whether Trump said shithouse or shithole.
Either way he's still a racist.

bver_hunter · Jan 18, 2018

Bud Plug said:
The part that you are getting wrong is that most people will not buy the "racist" characterization of the comments, regardless of the exact words used. Most people will just agree that it's not kind to call someone' s shithole country a shithole, especially if there is little that can be easily done to fix the problems. However, where that potentially rightful criticism gets off the rails is that Trump's words were intended to be private. So, to the extent that people trapped living in shitholes (or those sympathetic to their plight) are upset by the comments, they have only the Democrats to blame for upsetting them.

It's like the classic public school scenario. A (boy) tells B (girl), privately, that he thinks C (girl) is ugly. B, because she dislikes A and wants to befriend C, tells C what A said. C is is understandably upset. Who is the a-hole in this scenario? In my view, it's B, who broke confidence knowing that all that would be accomplished would be to upset C, which she did for her own advantage.

Yes, most Trump Cult followers believe that the word is not racist. All the normal Americans, do consider it to be so considering the context it was used in. So, you are wrong!! How can Trump's words ever be "private", when he used it during a meeting with the senators from both sides of the houses being present? Trump is the POTUS and he should take responsibility for his actions and misdeeds, not just keep on blaming the media and the Democrats.

Your rationale of a primary school scenario makes not an iota of sense. Trump is the biggest A-Hole in this whole affair, and the quicker he realizes that it is not only to his base that he has to reach out, but to all Americans as well.

bver_hunter · Jan 18, 2018

Butler1000 said:
Bad choice. Apparently the Germans chose not to steal the aid money but to use it to rebuild there nation.

As did Japan.

That's why they aren't shitholes.

The Germans created their own mess, and massacred millions of innocent human beings. That far surpasses what the Haitians did to their own people and the hurricanes that destroyed the nation was nature's choice. I agree that no countries are just shitholes because their economies are in the doldrums. The only ones who are the shitholes are Hitler and his Neo Nazi government who carried out al the killings as well as the Duvalier family in Haiti. They ruled the country like some autocratic dictators and plundered the wealth over the years.

bver_hunter · Jan 18, 2018

Smallcock said:
I'm not sure it was a shithole but I would agree that Germany was a shithouse in 1945, and that's because its major cities had been bombed to shit after the US and Russia defeated the Nazi piece of shit that ruled Germany.

The shithouse was quickly rebuilt following the war. So, yes, there are many ways in which a country can become a shithole and at one time or another various countries have been shitholes. A country can go from a shithole to a great nation. Currently there are many countries in a state of shithole status and you can't deny that.

Americans did degrade Nazis and Germans before, during, and after the war. Germans were fortunate to have White skin so within a generation, they spoke English and interbred with Anglos to become "White Americans".

Like I said, the only shitholes was Hitler and his Neo Nazi Government that carried out all the massacres in Germany.
This article nails it:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ountries-donald-trump-bigotry-historic-racism

bver_hunter · Jan 18, 2018

Trump feel's guilty as hell with using the shithole / shithouse word. If his cult base are coming out and categorically saying that he was correct to use that word or words, why the hell is he denying it. Maybe because he realizes that it is racist. Why do his base live in total denial about it.

jcpro · Jan 18, 2018

bver_hunter said:
Like I said, the only shitholes was Hitler and his Neo Nazi Government that carried out all the massacres in Germany.
This article nails it:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ountries-donald-trump-bigotry-historic-racism

Seriously?! Where did you learn history, in the Canadian educational system? The Nazi Party had a wide support among the Germans well into 1943/44. If they bothered to hold elections in the late thirties and early forties, the German people would have voted the Nazis into office without much trouble. In thirties Germany, if you were not a Jew, communist or other targeted group, your life was pretty good. The German people committed heinous crimes not because they were forced to, but because they wholly and enthusiastically accepted the Nazi program.

bver_hunter · Jan 18, 2018

jcpro said:
Seriously?! Where did you learn history, in the Canadian educational system? The Nazi Party had a wide support among the Germans well into 1943/44. If they bothered to hold elections in the late thirties and early forties, the German people would have voted the Nazis into office without much trouble. In thirties Germany, if you were not a Jew, communist or other targeted group, your life was pretty good. The German people committed heinous crimes not because they were forced to, but because they wholly and enthusiastically accepted the Nazi program.

What are you on about??? Some of the right wingers are calling them a shithole nation, and someone like Butler is not.

Yes, there were a substantial population who supported the nazis. The Catholic Church was opposed to the regime and suppressed by Hitler who brutally put down all the other democratic institutions as well, including the Christian and Social Democrats, Liberals, and Communist organizations. The actual suppression and massacres were organized by the SS and implemented in conjunction with the army. There was a sizeable population that opposed Hitler, but democracy did not exist. Are you saying that they were a shithole nation then, and Butler was wrong? So really what is your point?

Frankfooter · Jan 18, 2018

Americans are now going on Yelp and reviewing all the Trump hotels and golf courses.
Somehow they all seem to be getting 'shithole' reviews.
Very funny.

Butler1000 · Jan 18, 2018

bver_hunter said:
What are you on about??? Some of the right wingers are calling them a shithole nation, and someone like Butler is not.

Yes, there were a substantial population who supported the nazis. The Catholic Church was opposed to the regime and suppressed by Hitler who brutally put down all the other democratic institutions as well, including the Christian and Social Democrats, Liberals, and Communist organizations. The actual suppression and massacres were organized by the SS and implemented in conjunction with the army. There was a sizeable population that opposed Hitler, but democracy did not exist. Are you saying that they were a shithole nation then, and Butler was wrong? So really what is your point?

Actually I Actually said after WWII Germany was a shithole. It's just that the German people ran with the Marshal plan. And have acknowledged the mistakes of the past.

Instead of worrying about semantics the energy should be placed in improving things.

jcpro · Jan 18, 2018

bver_hunter said:
What are you on about??? Some of the right wingers are calling them a shithole nation, and someone like Butler is not.

Yes, there were a substantial population who supported the nazis. The Catholic Church was opposed to the regime and suppressed by Hitler who brutally put down all the other democratic institutions as well, including the Christian and Social Democrats, Liberals, and Communist organizations. The actual suppression and massacres were organized by the SS and implemented in conjunction with the army. There was a sizeable population that opposed Hitler, but democracy did not exist. Are you saying that they were a shithole nation then, and Butler was wrong? So really what is your point?

All I'm saying is that you don't know what you're talking about. Your " substantial population" happened to be vast majority which, btw, is supported by the statistical data from the Nazi ministry of justice that administered the "suppression" . The legal framework for the Nazi state was certainly not imposed by force. You're confusing the German Nazi State with the Communist Russia where genocide was committed out of fear and downward pressure.

LT56 · Jan 18, 2018

Butler1000 said:
Actually I Actually said after WWII Germany was a shithole. It's just that the German people ran with the Marshal plan. And have acknowledged the mistakes of the past.

Instead of worrying about semantics the energy should be placed in improving things.

If the West had provided a Marshall Plan for Haiti instead of fucking with them then Haiti would be an economic power house. The article in the OP explains how the West has aggressively destroyed Hait’s economy since it rebelled from France.

LT56 · Jan 18, 2018

jcpro said:
Seriously?! Where did you learn history, in the Canadian educational system? The Nazi Party had a wide support among the Germans well into 1943/44. If they bothered to hold elections in the late thirties and early forties, the German people would have voted the Nazis into office without much trouble. In thirties Germany, if you were not a Jew, communist or other targeted group, your life was pretty good. The German people committed heinous crimes not because they were forced to, but because they wholly and enthusiastically accepted the Nazi program.

In its day, the Nazi party was very popular in Germany...Trump is not quite as popular as the Nazis once were but many Americans support him.

jcpro · Jan 18, 2018

LT56 said:
In its day, the Nazi party was very popular in Germany...Trump is not quite as popular as the Nazis once were but many Americans support him.

The point is, few would call the 1930s Germany a shithole and nobody would call the 1945-1950 Germany a shithole because all Germany was nothing but an occupied territory.

LT56 · Jan 18, 2018

jcpro said:
The point is, few would call the 1930s Germany a shithole and nobody would call the 1945-1950 Germany a shithole because all Germany was nothing but an occupied territory.

...and because their population was predominantly white.

jcpro · Jan 18, 2018

LT56 said:
...and because their population was predominantly white.

What other color were they suppose to be, being in the center of the bloody Europe?

This is how ignorant you have to be to call Haiti a 'shithole'

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