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Remove the (so called DJ) fees dancers have to pay

Do you agree or disagree with the fees that dancers have to pay to the clubs?

  • Removed the fees dancers have to pay to the clubs they work in.

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • Leave the fees dancers have to pay to the club they work in.

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • I have no opinion one way or another.

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
This fee has been there like forever and no matter how we vote or comment I don't think these bars are going to remove them but at least we can voice our opposition to these fees in public so that the bar owners get the message. They also can come here if they wish and defend the undefendable (the fees they are extracting out of poor dancers). This is a free country and a free board afterall.

It is hard times in this business and strip bar slow down is spreading everywhere. There are many reasons for this slow down beyond the scope of this thread but it is a reality. But in summary very few like myself have remained as strip bar patron only and have found more intimate and less costly alternatives like MA's. Dancers in particular have difficult times to make money. That is why the quality of dancers has dropped and those who remained have real hard time to make ends meet. To make the matters worse, they also have to pay a fee in order to be able to work in these bars anything between $25 to as much as $60!!!!!!. So if they don't make one night that much as some don't then they do home without any income after hours of work and they have to pay this fees when they come back the next day. This is not acceptable.

Now that business is so slow then I believe that strip bars must remove these fees. Afterall they are making huge profit from us the patron by selling drink several times the price they pay for it. A glass of coke for example I pay $6 is only $1 to buy it in the market. I view these huge fees that hard working dancers have to pay as exploitation of the dancers and in my view there is no justifications for these fees. The bars are making huge profit already out of selling drinks six times the price they buy and should pay the DJs for being employed by them. Since when workers pay the salary of other workers?

Please cast your vote or add comments as what you did.

ps - I am not suggesting a boycott or any action against any club as this will further hurt the dancers. Afterall this is where they work and make money, if any.
I am not associated in any way with any dancer(s) and do not lose or benefit from the removal of these mandatory fees dancers have to pay in order to be allowed to work. No dancer has suggested this topic of discussion to me though it is not hard to assume most if not all are not happy with these fees.
 

thumper18474

Well-known member
this is a subject that you should be discussing with the dancers
form a coalition
get all dancers on board or the more popular ones..who draw in patrons and approach the bars and suggest that they remove the fee or the dancers will boycott their establishments
after all the longer the patron is there ( presumably to see the dancers) the more he buys/drinks...
Revolutions always cost in the short term but as they say short term pain for long term gain
A revolution always starts with an Idea

Viva LA REVOLUTION!!!!
 

maurice93

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2006
5,811
751
113
stop putting strippers on a pedestal.

Dancers have a secure place to work.
Dance areas for where they get to make income.
A club which brings in customers to see them.
A club which pays for the entertainment, the staff, the marketing, To bring in customers.

Why shouldn’t they pay something for this?

This is no different than room fees at an MP visit... or even a professional paying rent at an office building.

If you are usIng someone else’s facilities to make money, you should expect a fee.
 

Nesbot

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2016
2,031
1,024
113
I agree with the above. Dancers are free to move from club to club and are essentially renting the space for the day. I see your point about the drinks but strip clubs are on the way out anyway. It’s a slow spiral but it’s still spiralling.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
A club which pays for the entertainment, the staff, the marketing, To bring in customers.
Why shouldn’t they pay something for this?.
False statements. Dancers go on stage for FREE to entertain patrons. Clubs pay NOTHING for entertainment. And in addition dancers also pay a fee for being allowed to work there. It is the dancers who pay for staff NOT the clubs. Clubs do NOT even pay for waitresses!!!. Their pay comes out of tips we patrons give them!!!! And what marketing?Clubs spend money to market themselves like ads in the TV or Newspapers? I don't think so. Even if partialy true (which is NOT), selling drinks 6 times the cost is not enough to pay for above ALLEGED expenses? Customers come in to see dancers not the club and will still come even after DJ fees are removed.

If you are usIng someone else’s facilities to make money, you should expect a fee.
And dancers perform for free. That should be enough for using the facilities. So when you work for a consulting firm or private/public company who provides you with an office and likely computers then YOU have to pay them for using their facilities rather than you being paid? Really!!!!!!??? I wonder all of us who work for many companies and if WE have to pay them for using their facilities then where our incomes are coming from!!!. Geez!!!!

I agree with the above. Dancers are free to move from club to club and are essentially renting the space for the day. I see your point about the drinks but strip clubs are on the way out anyway. It’s a slow spiral but it’s still spiralling.
Yes they are free to move but no matter where they go they still have to pay these fees. They all charge fees. Some go home without making any money and even lose money after hours of work while club owners are making tons of money bacause we pay the waitresses with tips not the clubs, dancers pay the DJ and security not the clubs. While clubs are profiting hugely from expensive sale of drinks. Not fair. And some of those dancers are single mothers!!.
They entertain for free (they are not paid a cent for dancing on stage). In addition they have to pay the staff (club doesn"t pay), they market themselves not the club. While club owners get all the profits (selling drinks, cover charging partons in the evening....).

Do you realize what you are supporting?
 

pagypie81

Member
Jun 21, 2015
83
30
18
while I believe the dj is extortion and the dancers deserve a wage, I don't see what the point of this poll is or what it will accomplish
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
It is an exploitation at worst but not an extorsion as the latter is just taking it too far. The point is to make the public/patrons aware of the fact that dancers have no income from the clubs (many not aware) and they are encouraged to take dances with them as much as they can. I am also hoping that a majority vote (and I was hoping for a big majority vote that have not materialized so far) against the so called DJ fee may send a message to the club owners as I am guessing that posts on boards last year (mainly initiated by myself) may have influenced the club policies or dancers and may have brought back nude stage dancing as I said all dancers in Pigales and Barbs are now stage dancing nude as opposed to a year ago when a majority were topless dancing but it may be just a coincident.

None of the dancers who I see know who Hugs and Kisses is in person in the club and most are not even aware of review boards so your statement as usual is false, but I do take extra hugs and kisses anytime. Btw it is childish to comment or vote out of personal vendetta rather than what you really believe or feel is right, just saying.

In a strip club money and thick walet is the only speaking language which may bring contact dances or hugs and kisses. We are all walking walets and anyone thinking that he is a catch or playing white knight or any other game or anything not green may bring about the above is living in a dream world or his own fictitious world.
 
Last edited:

canuckhooker

Active member
Oct 5, 2008
240
209
43
I am going to try and answer this without personal attacks, but for fuck's sakes man, pull your head out of your ass. Oooops I guess I flunked. You are listening to only one side of the story from a bunch of whiners. I will be up front and say I worked the bar in one of this city's fine adult entertainment establishments, and I am also friends with a lot of current and former dancers. So although I have one opinion it also gives me informed insight into what goes on.

Firstly the DJ fee is their entry into the club to be able to earn money. It is all they pay. They are also expected to do a certain number of stage shows. Although shows are "unpaid" it is a way for them to also advertise to the patrons to get to take them for dances. In return they get the services of the DJ, they get change rooms, they get security, they get advertising, they get the opportunity to make money, and some of them do quite well.

As for your assertion that the drinks are over priced, really? Do you ever go out to a bar or club? Granted pop may be more pricey but that is to weed out the cheap bastards who come in, nurse a coke for hours, watch the stage show and never take a girl for dances. That policy is as much for the girls as it is for the club, as it gets rid of time wasters. Do you want to hear the dancers bitch because some guy is sitting at a table in the dark, nursing a drink and only watching the stage shows? Trust me it happens every day.

Not pay the bar staff and servers? Wrong again. They all get paid, they must get paid. Who may not get paid are shooter girls, who in some cases are private contractors like the dancers who get paid on what they sell. But that is standard with shooter girls in almost every bar, not just strip clubs. Most of them are shooter girls because they see it as an opportunity to make quick under the table cash, or they are often not competent or reliable enough to get hired as a proper server or bartender.

If any wait staff or bar staff are not getting paid, or the club takes their tips, then that is wrong and illegal. I must say that it does happen and not just in strip clubs. It is up to those people to complain to the Labor board, but speaking from years of experience in the hospitality industry most won't. They will put up with it or move on.

Something you may not know, in fact I would put money on you not knowing, is that there is a unique requirement regarding staff in strip clubs in Ottawa. There is a bylaw that means there must be a declared "manager" on site at all times. Those people have to pay a $2000 fee to get their "license" to fill that role. They have to have a permit with their picture on it, that must be posted somewhere in the club. That doesn't happen in any other type of establishment. All you need to serve alcohol in any other establishment is a Smart Serve certification.

The sliding scale of DJ fees also serves to control how many dancers are in the club at any one time and who gets to work the more lucrative shifts. It is an incentive and a control. I know it sounds great to have the place packed with dancers but if they outnumber the paying customers then some of the dancers are not making any money at all. That causes ill will, petty jealousy and competition between dancers that results in some offering extras to get more business. Or in some cases full on brawls in the change rooms. There is thought put into why this is done and it is not just some arbitrary money-grab on behalf of the club owners.

I will leave it at this, but trust me that your polls have no effect on the club owners. What has effect is the number of bums in seats drinking in the club.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
I know it is too much to ask of you c-hooker but try to show/have some class. It is a debate between adults not a war zone. So try to be civilized and mature if you can at all. I am sure you are likely fully aware that you are also attacking all those who may have voted in favor of fees removal for dancers not just me.

It is however, quite understandable for someone who worked as a DJ in a strip club (as per your own past posts) and likely still works as DJ in a strip club should so strongly opposse DJ fees exploited/extorted from poor dancers who are mostly single mothers or students trying to support their babies/kids or their education. I leave my comments at this.
 

interferon

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2010
633
271
63
Vaughan
I don't find a fee of $25 to $60 outrageous to work in the club, given that that amount is something dancers can earn in 4 to 10 minutes. If dancers are going home without making any money they are in teh wrong business or at a terrible club or are suffering from their own bad attitude. I have no idea what hte DJ fees are but they are simliar there's another 4 to 10 minutes of private dances to pay it.

I believe dancers should be treated well and with respect but they are being given a safe place to work and a room full (hopefully) of customers to attract.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
Thank you for your comments interferon.

The $25 to $60 was not much in the past as the business was booming for all including dancers. However, time has changed and I can tell you that as you are probably aware I know many dancers for years and there are some who leave home with loss or earn little after hours of work. They are pretty and have friendly atttitude. It is not because of bad attitudes just bad times with other higher mileage alternatives at less cost available to men (I am just guessing this) and internet where is a call away and smoking ban.

This thread is not meant at all to be against the strip clubs, owners or DJs. Its intention is to raise awareness (so that patrons go to clubs more often and take more dances) and possibly (I hope) convey a message to policy makers at SCs.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,049
48
48
Maybe the clubs are different but when I danced, I got paid for stage shows. $15-20 per show.

I paid a DJ fee but quite often made that up in stage shows.

As a shooter girl, I made money on the upsell of shooter prices and tips. As a waitress I was paid min wage.

So I don't know where you are going but none of what you write is what I have experienced.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
Hi Jessica. Thank you for your comments.

Yes clubs are different from when you danced. I know it as a fact. dancers do NOT get paid for stage shows.

As I said there is no payment for stage show so you second statement is not again applicable. I made it clear in my post above that time has changed.

That was why I started this thread. To raise awareness and I am glad to see it is working. I am sure many patrons do not know above facts and fees when a former dancers appears unaware as per above post. Afterall that is why we have this forum. To share and promote. I was not however expected to be attacked personally by someone who could be clearly in a conflict of interest position (post # 9) as I always thought we are adults, civilized and mature (it was okay he registered his opinion and I welcome differeing opinions to enter a debate like others did but he started his post with a personal attack which he was admitting to this personal attack himself and then in my eyes he discredited the rest of his comments by doing do)

As far as I know shooter girls only paid by tips. I may have been wrong about waitresses not paid as a waitress in Montreal told me herself that she is not paid by the bar but things may be different in Ottawa. I apologize if I was wrong about waitress not being paid.

I stand by all my other statements (except unpaid waitress that I could have been incorrect, not sure) that likely because of alternate options (or whatever reason it is not relevant to this discussion as why) strip bar business has gone down real bad past few years and dancers even beautiful ones find hard time to make money these days and some (not all of course) leave home with loss or little after hours of work, and in my view the fees they pay must be waived at this time. The club should pay the DJs same amount they are paid now out of the likely huge profite they are making out of drink sells, in my view.

Please update your info on strip bars to 2017 and then my writings may make sense Jessica
 

ElCapitain

New member
Jun 22, 2016
333
1
0
I think this is a kind and well-intentioned idea, but I don't think it would necessarily increase dancers' earnings because of the underlying economics. The nightly fee is a barrier to entry that (i) limits the number of dancers, and (ii) encourages client-development skills (i.e., encourages creating regulars).

If there was no nightly fee, there probably would be more dancers every night, but the same number of patrons, which would result in lower average incomes. You kind of see that at some of the MA spas that charge a house fee per massage rather than a nightly house fee... on slow nights they'll often still have a full slate of girls around.

Anyway, I think a better approach would just be to encourage customers to be mindful of dancers' time. I was at Barbs last night early in the evening, and it was frickin cold out so some dancers probably bailed and only Phoenix was around for quite a while (she is dedicated and a trooper!). She spent like an hour chatting with someone who as far as I could tell hadn't taken her to the CR before I left. That's awesome if there are lots of dancers around and/or there are few patrons, but if it were me I'd be encouraging her to do the rounds at some point.
 
Jul 28, 2006
1,901
2
36
Oh for fuck sakes !!!

You gotta spend money to make money. The club assumes many of the infrastructure costs that enable a good dancer on a slow day to walkway with 3-400 bucks A DAY. Who pays for the hydro-the club, who pays for the leasing of the space-the club, who pays to maintain and clean the space- the club, who pays the music licensing fees-the club, who pays for the for the support staff (waitresses, security, bartender etc)- the club, who pays to promote the venue and the brand-the club, who pays the liquor license-the club. Who pays the collected hst taxes, property taxes -the club!!!!!!

Have you noticed the trending answer in the above questions ? THE CLUB. Sure get rid of DJ fees, but then as a patron you'll need to step up and pay a 25 dollar cover , 10 dollar coat check fee, 15 dollars for a beer, 10 bucks to use the toilet and 30 dollars for a greasy basket of fries.

Clearly you've never worked in the entertainment, service or retail industry and aren't aware of how these types of businesses operate, let me tell you, margins are thin and the ones who really walk away with the most, tax free income at the end of the day is the savy moneywise dancer who doesn't drink her dance money away or frivolously spend her income on other diversions, and somehow cannot come up with rent $ at the end of the month. If a dancer is complaining to her customers about paying a 20 do, large dj fee, she is just playing the customer, if you believe then you are being played. A good , professional and classy dancer doesn't discuss such matters with her clients, it kinda spoils the illusion and fantasy the customer is seeking and paying for.
 

maurice93

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2006
5,811
751
113
Hugs and kisses make sure to tell all the dancers that the DJ fees are fully tax deductible when they pay their taxes on their complete dancers income.
 

canuckhooker

Active member
Oct 5, 2008
240
209
43
I know it is too much to ask of you c-hooker but try to show/have some class. It is a debate between adults not a war zone. So try to be civilized and mature if you can at all. I am sure you are likely fully aware that you are also attacking all those who may have voted in favor of fees removal for dancers not just me.

It is however, quite understandable for someone who worked as a DJ in a strip club (as per your own past posts) and likely still works as DJ in a strip club should so strongly opposse DJ fees exploited/extorted from poor dancers who are mostly single mothers or students trying to support their babies/kids or their education. I leave my comments at this.
Wrong buddy, I was a bartender, I never worked as a DJ. So wrong guess. Secondly, you are the one who are using words like: exploitation and extortion (not extorsion (sic) ) . You are the one who is falsely stating that the clubs don't pay their employees, accusing them of making "HUGE" profits etc. The facts are wrong and your rhetoric is confrontational. A 600% mark up is ridiculous. Nobody does that except maybe on soft drinks, and there is a reason for that as I outlined. The drink prices might be slightly higher than some bars, but nowhere near what they are in some places. So get your facts straight before getting on your high horse Don Quixote.

As I said I have "informed insight" as to what goes on. And don't think I haven't heard the dancers complain, or experienced them trying to skirt paying the fee even if they made money that day. It is the nature of the beast. And the reason any of them would tell you that is to get sympathy from you in the hopes you will drop more dollars on them.

As for attacking those who voted, there were a whole 5 of them when I wrote that and I would wager many of them voted your way because of your mis-statement of facts. It is obvious from what you write that you have never worked in the hospitality or retail industry which colours your perspective. Your whole argument is based in assumptions that are grossly wrong and simplistic.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
511
161
43
Secondly, you are the one who are using words like: exploitation and extortion (not extorsion (sic) )

As for attacking those who voted, there were a whole 5 of them when I wrote that and I would wager many of them voted your way because of your mis-statement of facts. It is obvious from what you write that you have never worked in the hospitality or retail industry which colours your perspective. Your whole argument is based in assumptions that are grossly wrong and simplistic.
I never used the four letter word or any foul language (like taking your head out of your whatever) even when I responded to your unprovoked attack as YOU did and will never do or say things like that. You admitted in your own post that you made a personal attack.

I stand by what I said. It is hard time and the strip bar business has gone down and many dancers do not make enough and sometimes even lose money after hours of work. They are NOT paid for stage dancing and their only income comes from private dances. The bars are making huge profit out of selling drinks much more than the price they purchase and they have to pay those who work for them out of that profit not dancers.

If you want to debate above facts then please debate it in a civilize mature manner without making personal attacks or foul language which you admitted in your own post you have done.
 
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