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Remove the (so called DJ) fees dancers have to pay

Do you agree or disagree with the fees that dancers have to pay to the clubs?

  • Removed the fees dancers have to pay to the clubs they work in.

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • Leave the fees dancers have to pay to the club they work in.

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • I have no opinion one way or another.

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
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maurice93

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2006
5,811
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In any business that goes downhill, the employees also bear rh brunt in terms of having to take significant pay cuts at times to play their role in the company surviving.

Now H&k is asking the opposite to happen. He is asking dancers who rely on clubs existing to survive, to pass on even more costs to the business. That makes zero business sense.

It sucks when you are in a dying business but you really have 2 options:
1) do your part to help the business survive and accept your net compensation maybe less.
2) search elaawhere for employment or a job.

Or perhaps they can reduce the price for thei dances to a more competitor costs or charge a more reasonable cost for the extra services they provide to create more demand.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,049
48
48
Hi Jessica. Thank you for your comments.

Yes clubs are different from when you danced. I know it as a fact. dancers do NOT get paid for stage shows.

As I said there is no payment for stage show so you second statement is not again applicable. I made it clear in my post above that time has changed.

That was why I started this thread. To raise awareness and I am glad to see it is working. I am sure many patrons do not know above facts and fees when a former dancers appears unaware as per above post. Afterall that is why we have this forum. To share and promote. I was not however expected to be attacked personally by someone who could be clearly in a conflict of interest position (post # 9) as I always thought we are adults, civilized and mature (it was okay he registered his opinion and I welcome differeing opinions to enter a debate like others did but he started his post with a personal attack which he was admitting to this personal attack himself and then in my eyes he discredited the rest of his comments by doing do)

As far as I know shooter girls only paid by tips. I may have been wrong about waitresses not paid as a waitress in Montreal told me herself that she is not paid by the bar but things may be different in Ottawa. I apologize if I was wrong about waitress not being paid.

I stand by all my other statements (except unpaid waitress that I could have been incorrect, not sure) that likely because of alternate options (or whatever reason it is not relevant to this discussion as why) strip bar business has gone down real bad past few years and dancers even beautiful ones find hard time to make money these days and some (not all of course) leave home with loss or little after hours of work, and in my view the fees they pay must be waived at this time. The club should pay the DJs same amount they are paid now out of the likely huge profite they are making out of drink sells, in my view.

Please update your info on strip bars to 2017 and then my writings may make sense Jessica

Please understand that I am not an idiot and am able to read and make sense of what you are writing. I agree that times may have changed or maybe it is location because I am pretty sure the local club here still pays their dancers for stage shows.

However, if they don't, I am okay with that. Because as others have said, it is used promotionally. It also allows centered time for the girl to obtain tips on stage. I know I always made more on the stage then I was paid for anyway.

So believe me, I understand what you are saying and how you think it all fits, I just don't agree.

You may not name call but your writing comes across as patronizing and entitled. It is actually quite off putting if I am being honest. So if your objective was to create discussion, your writing is actually taking the focus away from the topic itself and centering it around yourself personally.

If you don't like the way a place treats its employees, don't go there. Easy no?
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
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You gotta spend money to make money. The club assumes many of the infrastructure costs that enable a good dancer on a slow day to walkway with 3-400 bucks A DAY. Who pays for the hydro-the club, who pays for the leasing of the space-the club, who pays to maintain and clean the space- the club, who pays the music licensing fees-the club, who pays for the for the support staff (waitresses, security, bartender etc)- the club, who pays to promote the venue and the brand-the club, who pays the liquor license-the club. Who pays the collected hst taxes, property taxes -the club!!!!!!

Have you noticed the trending answer in the above questions ? THE CLUB. Sure get rid of DJ fees, but then as a patron you'll need to step up and pay a 25 dollar cover , 10 dollar coat check fee, 15 dollars for a beer, 10 bucks to use the toilet and 30 dollars for a greasy basket of fries.

Clearly you've never worked in the entertainment, service or retail industry and aren't aware of how these types of businesses operate, let me tell you, margins are thin and the ones who really walk away with the most, tax free income at the end of the day is the savy moneywise dancer who doesn't drink her dance money away or frivolously spend her income on other diversions, and somehow cannot come up with rent $ at the end of the month. If a dancer is complaining to her customers about paying a 20 do, large dj fee, she is just playing the customer, if you believe then you are being played. A good , professional and classy dancer doesn't discuss such matters with her clients, it kinda spoils the illusion and fantasy the customer is seeking and paying for.
Thank you Cowboy Kenny for your comments.

As for 3-400 bucks a day not sure what year or century you are living. Have you visited strip clubs recently? Evidently I have and for MOST dancers (not all) especially if those who wish to remain a dancer and only perform as a dancer (without extras) then that is a thing of the past. And I see it with my own eyes that it has become so much harder to get private dances out of the diminishing crowd of patrons especially when alternative higher mileage more cost effective alternatives are so readily available. Yes I do realize by reading your post that clubs have expenses too but surely you are not claiming that they don't make profit, are you? Then I believe they should also pay their own employees.

Yes I am quite willing and ready to pay the $25 cover charge and $15 for beer (which I believe you are exaggerating significantly) if the DJ fee is removed. I just drink less and don't bring a coat. Those who come and enjoy free stage dancing have to pay their share not unpaid dancers.

Dancers do not share these issues with patrons. I am friends with many of them for months and years as is evident by my posts and we share our lives with each other, the good, the bad and the ugly.

As I mentioned very clearly in the OP no dancer has asked me to open up this discussion. So please
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
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Please understand that I am not an idiot and am able to read and make sense of what you are writing. I agree that times may have changed or maybe it is location because I am pretty sure the local club here still pays their dancers for stage shows.
I never even remotely suggested anything like that as per the first part of your post.

Where is here? I am not talking about here!!! My posts are about Ottawa strip bars. This is OTTAWA section of strip bar forum under discusion, in case you didn't notice. Are you saying that in Ottawa dancers are being paid for stage dancing? Please clarify.

So believe me, I understand what you are saying and how you think it all fits, I just don't agree.
You are entitled to your opinion and your right to disagree and so am I, respectfully.
 
Jul 28, 2006
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Thank you Cowboy Kenny for your comments.

As for 3-400 bucks a day not sure what year or century you are living. Have you visited strip clubs recently? Evidently I have and for MOST dancers (not all) especially if those who wish to remain a dancer and only perform as a dancer (without extras) then that is a thing of the past. And I see it with my own eyes that it has become so much harder to get private dances out of the diminishing crowd of patrons especially when alternative higher mileage more cost effective alternatives are so readily available. Yes I do realize by reading your post that clubs have expenses too but surely you are not claiming that they don't make profit, are you? Then I believe they should also pay their own employees.

Yes I am quite willing and ready to pay the $25 cover charge and $15 for beer (which I believe you are exaggerating significantly) if the DJ fee is removed. I just drink less and don't bring a coat. Those who come and enjoy free stage dancing have to pay their share not unpaid dancers.

Dancers do not share these issues with patrons. I am friends with many of them for months and years as is evident by my posts and we share our lives with each other, the good, the bad and the ugly.

As I mentioned very clearly in the OP no dancer has asked me to open up this discussion. So please
You continue to live in a fantasy world. Yes a good dancer can leave her shift with a few hundred I know many who do and yes I have been to a strip club recently and often do contract work for a few, so I'm telling you from the inside that the clubs expenses far out way the expenses of the dancers, essentially the dancer is asked to pay the equivalent of one dance to the DJ for services rendered durring her shift, not much to ask. When I was a DJ 30 years ago the cost was the same , 5 dollars per shift, when dances where 5 bucks a pop, not much to ask when all the rest of the expenses are covered that allow the dancer to make much more durring her shift. I find it amusing that over all these years you continue to speak on matters you know nothing about, thanks for the laughs SMH
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
You continue to live in a fantasy world. Yes a good dancer can leave her shift with a few hundred
It is debatable which one of us is living in a fantasy world.

And what is a good dancer in your definition? Before responding please remember we are talking about a dancer who dances not anything else. I hope you didn't mean what crossed my mind by your phrase.

essentially the dancer is asked to pay the equivalent of one dance to the DJ for services rendered durring her shift, not much to ask.
Again not true this century. Dances are $20 per song (if they get any at all) and DJ fee is between $25 to as high as $60 depending on the club and hours.

I find it amusing that over all these years you continue to speak on matters you know nothing about, thanks for the laughs SMH
Please don't make this personal. It shows weakness on your part when you make a debate personal. I am close and friends with many dancers for years. As I said we share our lives and know many details about each other. So do not tell me that I don't know about their problems or anything related. If you have evidence that all or even most DANCERS make a few hundred every shift then please present it or share it, otherwise I think you trying to demean me as above simply because I have different beliefs than yours does not make you look good, respectfully.
 

maurice93

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2006
5,811
751
113
Please understand that I am not an idiot and am able to read and make sense of what you are writing. I agree that times may have changed or maybe it is location because I am pretty sure the local club here still pays their dancers for stage shows.

However, if they don't, I am okay with that. Because as others have said, it is used promotionally. It also allows centered time for the girl to obtain tips on stage. I know I always made more on the stage then I was paid for anyway.

So believe me, I understand what you are saying and how you think it all fits, I just don't agree.

You may not name call but your writing comes across as patronizing and entitled. It is actually quite off putting if I am being honest. So if your objective was to create discussion, your writing is actually taking the focus away from the topic itself and centering it around yourself personally.

If you don't like the way a place treats its employees, don't go there. Easy no?
Just remember that hugs looks down on those e that are mpa or escorts. They are making things difficult for his precious dancers. So I am not surprised that he Communicated in such a patronizing manner to you.

I have no issues with dancers by the way.. only hugs warped view of the industry.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
Just remember that hugs looks down on those e that are mpa or escorts. They are making things difficult for his precious dancers. So I am not surprised that he Communicated in such a patronizing manner to you.

I have no issues with dancers by the way.. only hugs warped view of the industry.
This is a LIE and a big one too. I have said that under current legislative environment (as well as for personal reasons that I made long before C36 became the law), I have opted out from seeing escorts but acknowledged that those who do (provided they screen out carefully those who may have been forced, pimped, coerced, ........) I have no problem with consenting paid sex and I have said that many times before. Going as far as telling a lie was low even for you.

A dancer who wishes to dance only but otherwise HAS to provide extras against her wishes so that she can feed her baby or pay for her rent and heat or college fees in this hard economic times is as bad as a FORCED provider in my view. I am sure nobody was suggesting that.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,049
48
48
Just remember that hugs looks down on those e that are mpa or escorts. They are making things difficult for his precious dancers. So I am not surprised that he Communicated in such a patronizing manner to you.

I have no issues with dancers by the way.. only hugs warped view of the industry.
Did he use to have a captain name or something? If so, I remember who is this guy is now. I remember all the posts about vowing to never see another escort blah blah blah.

He was just as patronizing in his postings then too.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
Did he use to have a captain name or something? If so, I remember who is this guy is now. I remember all the posts about vowing to never see another escort blah blah blah. .
Yeah strange that you have been here evidently since July 2014 and you remember what the team captain was posting long before that date, even allegedly all the posts!!!!. Really?. Yes make personal attacks instead of debating issues and this alone clarifies many things.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
Hugs and kisses make sure to tell all the dancers that the DJ fees are fully tax deductible when they pay their taxes on their complete dancers income.
It may come as a surprise to you but some do declare and pay their taxes (I am not saying all or in full I just don't know). I know a friend of mine (a dancer) bought a small house 4 or 5 years ago when times were better and when I asked her how she could qualify for a mortgage (I knew she had no other job) she told me her Review Canada assessments indicated the income she is declaring every year. And I know quite a few who also told me they do same but this is a subject very few wish to share in detail. Again I am just saying what I was told in a few cases but can't verify the statements (none of my business anyway) except the first example.

Btw, the dancer I referenced above was forced to sell the hourse 2 years ago as she wasn't able to make enough money to pay for mortgage and she could not find other jobs either (hell it is even hard to find jobs for university and college graduates these days. What planet or century are you living in?).
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,049
48
48
Yeah strange that you have been here evidently since July 2014 and you remember what the team captain was posting long before that date, even allegedly all the posts!!!!. Really. Yes make personal attacks instead of debating issues and this alone clarifies many things.
Relax your bunched panties there sweetie.

I joined when the C36 debates were going on. I was not yet ready to become an Indy at the time but wrote about feeling as though I needed to step up my timeline because of the new laws coming in.

I was doing a lot of research at the time and you did a lot of preaching back then in the threads I was reading about the laws., I would remember someone who was/is as patronizing as you are. I only remember the captain in the name because we all called you Captian-Save-A-Hoe. In private discussion with my fellow indies at the time.

I put you on ignore then, and don't worry - I shall do the same again now.

Women like me are way above your grade level. I am a business owner who does this as a form of paid dating. I am single, established in life and really just want to enjoy all of the good and none of the bad that actual dating has to offer. I am not like your "dancers" who turn tricks in the parking lot because they need to feed their baby as you put it. You go ahead and keep up the cursade to save them all from the big bad men who pray on them.

I will continue to enjoy seeing men who want nothing more then to make me cum over and over while leaving $250 on the hall table on their way out the door. Thanks
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
I put you on ignore then, and don't worry - I shall do the same again now.
Thank you very much for this.

I am single, established in life and really just want to enjoy all of the good and none of the bad that actual dating has to offer.

I will continue to enjoy seeing men who want nothing more then to make me cum over and over while leaving $250 on the hall table on their way out the door.
Btw, I never asked or was even slightly intereted in your personal life or what you do but thank you for feeling free to share it anyways. Btw, I thought you have to be a paid advertiser to advertise about yourself on this board, especially when you post your price as per your post above!!!!!!

I am not like your "dancers" who turn tricks in the parking lot because they need to feed their baby as you put it
Leave the dancers out of this. Attacking me will likely buy you some friends here as because of my views on seeing escorts (to carefully screening out those who may have been pimped or forced or coerced) I am not favored by some who may oppose my views or those few who I called out their lies about Barbarellas on the other board, but attacking dancers who are not even here to defend themselves (I have reviewed about 100-200 but they are not "my" dancers as many other members have also seen them or are their favorites) will not likely get you many friends but clarifies further your nature.
 
Jul 28, 2006
1,901
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H&k, you are arguing with people who work in the industry we have the experience and understanding of how the fees work and what type of potential income can be made by a good dacer , you are simply a patron who is being hustled by a dancer making the strip club managers and dj out to be the bad guys while she takes home a few hundred a shift and complains about having to layout 20, to make that money. I know it's hard to admit, but you're being played, you're part of the hustle. That's what these girls do and do well if they're good at it, their job is to get your money and if you believe their story you're playing right into their hands. Thousands are spent in the champagne room hundreds at a time, remember 5 songs is 100 bucks with no hanky panty or extras, that's 20 minutes of work....some of those same girls will come up with the lamest excuses not to pay their dj fees but then walk in the next day with a new purse, new mani-pedi, new clothes or some other extravagance that cost way more than 20 bucks they couldn't pay the day before, please do your self a favor and research all sides of the story before you take a stand and continue to raise these women so high on your pedi stall, you're entitled to your own opinion, but on this matter you're kind of embarrassing yourself
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
Cowboy Kenny we are debating. I am debating. I am not arguing!!!!. It is a poll. If you don't agree then please simply exercise your right and vote No or debate your side as you did. At the end readers would make their own judgements and that is how to do it.

I learned some from your posts about the costs for clubs so thank you but why this hostile tone just because we have different views on the matter? Btw, my experience with strip bars dates back to 1992 (25 years).

Please don't post what you do not know as a fact. It is not a dancer but they are many dancers with whom we chat and share ups and downs of our lives and sometimes when I stay for hours (like today until traffic slows down around Montreal road) I saw with my own eyes that one of my long time private dancers did not make anything in all 4 hours I was there (except my $10 tip for her stage dance), and oh yes she danced two songs as well. I wish she could keep all of this $50 to herself.

As another example I invited a friend dancer to a Valentine's day dinner last year. I went to her house with flowers to pick her up for dinner date (and no money or anything other than hugs and kisses exchanged). She was living in an old small apartment in poor area of Gatinuea because she couldn't afford Ottawa rents or expensive apartments. So please don't tell me she is making a few hundred bucks per shift. I am giving you real life examples what do you give me other than claims? so please do not tell me I am being played as to my eyes you may appear to be on the side of an industry you may have worked for or admitted doing a few contract work or something based on previous post(s) in this thread. Though it is something that appears that way only but as I know you then I know for sure this is not true as I know you are a person with integrity.

Also as I said a few times before I was NEVER asked by any dancer to start this thread. They don't even know who Hugs and Kisses is or this board either. It is an awareness campaign to let patrons know that private dances is the only source of income for dancers and they are not paid by the cllubs. If I am lying then call out my lie and provide evidence to the contrary rather than exaggerated claims of dancers who do contact dancing only making a few hundred bucks per shift for a pure dancer whose job is nude dancing plus only private contact dance.

My point is that a certain number of so called dancers make a lot of money and it is true what you say (but I don't know many of the dancers in this category) but many especially those who I know and am friends with, do not. That is because they refuse to be more than a dancer. It has become harder and harder to make money just as a dancer these days. they are struggling and my heart goes out to them when I talk and see them not making money and yet have to pay fees and sometimes being asked to be more than what they wish to do otherwise no dance or just one song.

I am not against strip clubs or managers/djs. I have been promoting strip clubs so fiercely with hundreds of posts. I am asking for a break for dancers in this hard economic times. That is all. I am not trying to make them look bad although I admit I may have unintentionally done just that but they can come here and present their case as you did for them (without making personal attacks as other guy did in post # 9). It is a debate and I am posting on "Removal" side and they can post on "Leave" side and make themselves look good. But please don't try to make me look bad in order to make them look good. This would be wrong.

what type of potential income can be made by a good dacer
Btw you mentioned the word "good dancer" again as those who make a lot of money but forgot or declined to describe your definition of a good dancer.
 

HUGS_KISSES

Active member
Mar 16, 2017
512
161
43
my god this guy really is into strip clubs. 400+ posts this year and it's all about strip clubs...in Ottawa. and he's only into hugging and kissing the strippers LMAO
Geez!!! Thank you for your contributions to this debate!!!!. Yes I am a strip bar patron who regularly visits a LEGAL establishment (a strip bar with a license) to spend time with DANCERS so what else was I supposed to be into!!!!? Please clarify.

And yes I have posted over 400 posts in order to promote strip bars and dancers in Ottawa.
 
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