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College teachers strike and the Wynne Government.

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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I must admit that I have not really been following this one since the get go, but it has started to get my attention.

But it has been dragging out now for 5 weeks. If I understand it correctly, the government has offered a 7.75 percent wage increase over 4 years. That seems pretty fair to me. (Especially when my salary has gone up 0 percent in the last 4 years.)

Most interesting is that the government is now tabling back to work legislation as it feels it is at the end of its rope. Predictably, the NDP under Horwath have said that they will not support such legislation (they want the labour vote I guess).

My opinion is that the college teachers / professors have it pretty damn good. I have a friend who teaches accounting at Humber (as well as works in the industry) and she readily admits that it's a great environment to work in and a good deal.

So enough already.

My opinion remains "if you don't like your job, quit and find a better one" .
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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My sister teaches community college in the US and has it okay. That's because she has seniority and tenure. But most teachers don't and they are fucked. Most teach part-time for a pittance, are treated like shit and have no job security.

Same situation up here. I understand from her that 3/4 of community college teachers are on contract and make about $30,000 per year.

I am guessing that's the real focus of the strike, not the % of wage increase.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Oagre is correct, the major issue is not wage increases but the over reliance on part time teachers and the way that colleges and university have tried to replace full time teachers with part time teachers. Part time teachers make about poverty wages and colleges give them no job security, each year they wait to see if they are offered contracts to teach the same courses the next year. I've heard of universities that go so far as to change the name of courses and its description slightly so that teachers have to reapply to teach basically the same course and are prevented from seniority.

The colleges also had about a $200 million surplus last year, so its not that they can't afford it.

Its a fair walkoff.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Oagre is correct, the major issue is not wage increases but the over reliance on part time teachers and the way that colleges and university have tried to replace full time teachers with part time teachers. Part time teachers make about poverty wages and colleges give them no job security, each year they wait to see if they are offered contracts to teach the same courses the next year. I've heard of universities that go so far as to change the name of courses and its description slightly so that teachers have to reapply to teach basically the same course and are prevented from seniority.

The colleges also had about a $200 million surplus last year, so its not that they can't afford it.

Its a fair walkoff.
200 million is a drop in the bucket.

Seriously, it's nothing. And I have no idea if you're number is correct or not. A quick google search tells me that the provincial budget for education was 21 billion in 2013. Who knows if that includes absolutely everything to do with education (buildings, school boards, support networks, etc.) I suspect not. So 200 million on 21 billion is .0095. That's fuck all.

If they are part time, they are part time. That typically means you do this job as a way to make extra money, not as your primary income source. Besides, community colleges (and universities for that matter) have thousands on thousands of courses. You cannot employ full time people to cover all the courses that are offered. Take me for example, I have taken several evening courses at local community colleges in French and computing. My French teacher was a full time high school French teacher. I have no idea what she was paid per hour (she was a great teacher btw), but I do know that she worked 3 hours every Saturday and I'm sure did the same in prep work. There is no way that the course I was taking, which typically had 8 or 10 people in it, could be offered if there were not people willing to teach part time.
 

Frankfooter

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200 million is a drop in the bucket.

Seriously, it's nothing. And I have no idea if you're number is correct or not. A quick google search tells me that the provincial budget for education was 21 billion in 2013. Who knows if that includes absolutely everything to do with education (buildings, school boards, support networks, etc.) I suspect not. So 200 million on 21 billion is .0095. That's fuck all.

If they are part time, they are part time. That typically means you do this job as a way to make extra money, not as your primary income source. Besides, community colleges (and universities for that matter) have thousands on thousands of courses. You cannot employ full time people to cover all the courses that are offered. Take me for example, I have taken several evening courses at local community colleges in French and computing. My French teacher was a full time high school French teacher. I have no idea what she was paid per hour (she was a great teacher btw), but I do know that she worked 3 hours every Saturday and I'm sure did the same in prep work. There is no way that the course I was taking, which typically had 8 or 10 people in it, could be offered if there were not people willing to teach part time.
This isn't really about night courses or people who want to be part time teachers.

Its about those who want to make a living as teachers but are stuck with part time course offers in order to keep wages down. Same as Walmart refusing to hire people to work 40 hours a week as they pass into requiring full time benefits.

I know lots of people teaching and only a few of those want to be teaching part time. But if you're only offered 2 or 3 courses you're stuck making between around $20k with a schedule that will keep you from taking any other work.
 

bluecolt

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Jun 18, 2011
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My sister teaches community college in the US and has it okay. That's because she has seniority and tenure. But most teachers don't and they are fucked. Most teach part-time for a pittance, are treated like shit and have no job security.

Same situation up here. I understand from her that 3/4 of community college teachers are on contract and make about $30,000 per year.

I am guessing that's the real focus of the strike, not the % of wage increase.
My babe is currently on strike. She works at the local community college here in Windsor and hasn't had a paycheque in about two months, thus forcing me to support her even more than usual.

For once, you are right, oagre. She is on contract and makes a helluva lot less than a high school or even a secondary school teacher. I was offered a business course to teach a while back at the community college as a sessional instructor. For the one course, for one semester, the honourarium was $3000 and I had to mark my own papers.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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This isn't really about night courses or people who want to be part time teachers.

Its about those who want to make a living as teachers but are stuck with part time course offers in order to keep wages down. Same as Walmart refusing to hire people to work 40 hours a week as they pass into requiring full time benefits.

I know lots of people teaching and only a few of those want to be teaching part time. But if you're only offered 2 or 3 courses you're stuck making between around $20k with a schedule that will keep you from taking any other work.
^^^^^ Exactly correct. It's a scam. The colleges bank mega by screwing educated people who have no option but to battle for a few crumbs. If they raise waves, they get dumped. The system is manipulated to keep the majority of teachers semi employed, poor, insecure and desperate.

At my sister's college, there was a "meeting" held by the Board to "get the response" of the teaching staff to even more vicious and demeaning cutbacks and screw overs for the upcoming semester. Except security was lined up at the back of the hall and there were ludicrous rules of decorum imposed by the Board Chair - no applause, very brief speaking allotments. A math prof protested the rules for being unnecessary and ridiculous and got arrested and dragged out. This - I gather from my sister - is about par for the course dealing with management at her college. The incident went national media in the US.
 

mandrill

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My babe is currently on strike. She works at the local community college here in Windsor and hasn't had a paycheque in about two months, thus forcing me to support her even more than usual.

For once, you are right, oagre. She is on contract and makes a helluva lot less than a high school or even a secondary school teacher. I was offered a business course to teach a while back at the community college as a sessional instructor. For the one course, for one semester, the honourarium was $3000 and I had to mark my own papers.
You see? I improve on closer acquaintance.
 

onthebottom

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This system is used to support the over paid tenure and admistrative staff.
 

mandrill

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This system is used to support the over paid tenure and admistrative staff.
Do you want to give me some examples and detailed analysis of this?
 

onthebottom

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mandrill

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The links you supported object to tenured staff not taking early retirement - which is their right. My sister for instance won't retire until she's 65 because her pension is not that generous. If the colleges paid tenured staff a little better and gave them better pensions, they would retire earlier.

The links also say that there is an over abundance of administrators, which is true. I believe that the ratio between administrators and teaching staff is ridiculously high - something like 1:4. But the strikers have nothing to do with that and aren't too impressed either.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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They knew they were going to strike. They waited until the students paid their tuition (many going into debt to do so). Pure scumbags.
Yeah, they shouldn't have struck - ever. Just starved and died. Scumbags.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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I would think the students do not think there is anything fair about losing a semester
Someone is going to be hurt in any public services strike. They are the inevitable victim. Since the government is an universal employer, the public can't go to the college down the street to get an education.

I would think that they can get refunds of their tuition though.
 

onthebottom

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The links you supported object to tenured staff not taking early retirement - which is their right. My sister for instance won't retire until she's 65 because her pension is not that generous. If the colleges paid tenured staff a little better and gave them better pensions, they would retire earlier.

The links also say that there is an over abundance of administrators, which is true. I believe that the ratio between administrators and teaching staff is ridiculously high - something like 1:4. But the strikers have nothing to do with that and aren't too impressed either.
Yet you only provide personal anecdotes to support your position. Many tenured staff stay long beyond the SS retirement age, that was the point of the article.
 

Frankfooter

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mandrill

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Yet you only provide personal anecdotes to support your position. Many tenured staff stay long beyond the SS retirement age, that was the point of the article.
But they have every right legally to do so. So what is your point?
 

onthebottom

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But they have every right legally to do so. So what is your point?
That the bloat in administrative positions and never ending and declining productive tenured staff are necessitating the use of adjunct staff. Those geezer professors are taking up slots that these younger teachers should be moving into.
 

Frankfooter

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That the bloat in administrative positions and never ending and declining productive tenured staff are necessitating the use of adjunct staff. Those geezer professors are taking up slots that these younger teachers should be moving into.
The bloat in administration should be dealt with.
I disagree with your claim that tenured teachers work declines as a whole.
The issue isn't the number of old tenured profs, the issue is that they have instead ceased to hire new full time teachers.
 
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