If Canada has so much oil, why is our gasoline so expensive?

JohnLarue · Nov 18, 2017

bver_hunter said:
You pointed out absolutely nothing except spill some right wing nonsense. The link I posted clearly said that Alberta had failed to invest in refineries for decades. Only recently did they start building a refinery. One hundred percent right. They are banking on oil prices going north of $100 per barrel that the information experts say is a probability. In Canada the oil industry is a monopoly, with very little competition and prices at the pumps for all the different companies fluctuating in tandem with one another. Prove that to be otherwise????

You still do not have a clue
35% of the pump price is tax. That is the reason we pay more

There are probably over 150 publically listed oil companies in Canada with probably at least another 20-30 private companies
The largest Suncor has maybe 10 % of the total production
Lots of different gas stations to buy gas from. I bet there are at least six different brand gas stations within 5 km of where you live
How in the world is that a monopoly?

Re $100 / bbl a probability?
Since it is not a monopoly and the world price is set by ever changing supply / demand dynamics, there is a probability the price may be over $100, however there is also a probability the price maybe $40

USA is using new technology to extract previously unaccusable shale oil and they are pumping a ton of it. Enough to depress the price. These wells can be shut in or started up in a very short period of time depending upon the economics (i.e. the price)
If they are banking on a long term price average of $100 bbl then there is a lot of risk in this project.

You know not what you preach about & you are embarrassing yourself

Frankfooter · Nov 18, 2017

K Douglas said:
We have a lack of refineries. Often we sell our oil to the US, they refine it and ship it back to us as gasoline. Completely asinine. On top of that we pay far more in taxes at the pump than the average American. Hence the difference in cost.

Also asinine to spend billions on a refinery when we're headed to a low carbon economy soon.

Mexico now has the cheapest electricity on the planet, with 1 cent/kilowatt generation coming soon.

bver_hunter · Nov 18, 2017

JohnLarue said:
You still do not have a clue
35% of the pump price is tax. That is the reason we pay more

There are probably over 150 publically listed oil companies in Canada with probably at least another 20-30 private companies
The largest Suncor has maybe 10 % of the total production
Lots of different gas stations to buy gas from. I bet there are at least six different brand gas stations within 5 km of where you live
How in the world is that a monopoly?

Re $100 / bbl a probability?
Since it is not a monopoly and the world price is set by ever changing supply / demand dynamics, there is a probability the price may be over $100, however there is also a probability the price maybe $40

USA is using new technology to extract previously unaccusable shale oil and they are pumping a ton of it. Enough to depress the price. These wells can be shut in or started up in a very short period of time depending upon the economics (i.e. the price)
If they are banking on a long term price average of $100 bbl then there is a lot of risk in this project.

You know not what you preach about & you are embarrassing yourself

Again you preach right wing nonsense. Look at the Havers Analytics Chart and you will see a sharp change in the trend in the middle of 2014 between the Price of Oil and the price at the pumps. Now you are telling me that if it is a free market the various companies would follow the same trend? Why are there not big differences in prices at the different gas stations in the same neighbourhood? As Dan McTeague has stated that a big portion is due to "profit taking and speculation". Also you are contradicting yourself by stating about the "cheap shale oil" yet the price at the pumps does not reflect that. Stop embarrassing yourself.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bmo-gasoline-prices-oil-1.3365821

onthebottom · Nov 18, 2017

nottyboi said:
That has a lot more to do with the cost to transport then quality of the oil. Refineries do need to be set up to refine heavy crude, but once they are, the cost to refine is not that much higher. The split of products you get is also a bit less profitable as more upgrading needs to be done in the processing stage to yield more valuable distillates. But moving crude by railcar vs pipeline or ship is vastly more expensive and so that comes out of the price.

You also can’t send it anywhere else so the buyer has price control.

onthebottom · Nov 18, 2017

Frankfooter said:
Also asinine to spend billions on a refinery when we're headed to a low carbon economy soon.

Mexico now has the cheapest electricity on the planet, with 1 cent/kilowatt generation coming soon.

Define soon?

The % of energy production in North America from carbon is extremely high.

JohnLarue · Nov 19, 2017

bver_hunter said:
Again you preach right wing nonsense.

Nonsense ?
Be specific as that quote contained a lot of different facts
Exactly which facts are you calling nonsense

It is very clear you not have a clue about the oil industry

You should read The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power by Daniel Yergin
Then ask yourself if there is a monopoly
Do you have any idea how many oil companies there are in the world ? obviously not

Look at the Havers Analytics Chart and you will see a sharp change in the trend in the middle of 2014 between the Price of Oil and the price at the pumps.

A chart tells you there is a monopoly? Did your tea leaves confirm it?

Did you factor out any changes in the frac spreads at the refineries?
Lots of things happen to get from crude to the gas pump which can cause movements in a chart
A chart is useless unless there is a very strong understanding of the pricing inputs

Now you are telling me that if it is a free market the various companies would follow the same trend?

???? WTF????
That's the nature of completion. If one of the five in your neighbourhood decreases prices the others follow suit in order to protect there market share. Same thing on the upside only there they are capturing higher margin

Why are there not big differences in prices at the different gas stations in the same neighbourhood?

same answer as above

As Dan McTeague has stated that a big portion is due to "profit taking and speculation".

Profit is the objective of a business. They go bankrupt and cease to exist without profit
speculation is part of all commodities.
Business that speculate also assume risk and ensure an orderly flow of the product from well head to your gas pump

Also you are contradicting yourself by stating about the "cheap shale oil" yet the price at the pumps does not reflect that.

you are really clueless
shale oil is the incremental oil the US can ramp up once the price exceeds $40- $ 50 bbl and ramp up a lot
This excess supply then puts downward pressure on the pricing

Besides it is just as likely you filled up your car with gas refined from crude from Venezuela , the middle east or Edmonton as opposed to US shale

The price at the pumps here is 35% tax
That's the big reason you see higher prices here and less of a movement when world oil move
Did you not study percentages in school ?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

No seriously, I strongly suggest you spend some time researching the oil industry as you have a lot of misconceptions

bver_hunter · Nov 19, 2017

JohnLarue said:
Nonsense ?
Be specific as that quote contained a lot of different facts
Exactly which facts are you calling nonsense

It is very clear you not have a clue about the oil industry

You should read The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power by Daniel Yergin
Then ask yourself if there is a monopoly
Do you have any idea how many oil companies there are in the world ? obviously not

A chart tells you there is a monopoly? Did your tea leaves confirm it?

Did you factor out any changes in the frac spreads at the refineries?
Lots of things happen to get from crude to the gas pump which can cause movements in a chart
A chart is useless unless there is a very strong understanding of the pricing inputs

???? WTF????
That's the nature of completion. If one of the five in your neighbourhood decreases prices the others follow suit in order to protect there market share. Same thing on the upside only there they are capturing higher margin

same answer as above

Profit is the objective of a business. They go bankrupt and cease to exist without profit
speculation is part of all commodities.
Business that speculate also assume risk and ensure an orderly flow of the product from well head to your gas pump

you are really clueless
shale oil is the incremental oil the US can ramp up once the price exceeds $40- $ 50 bbl and ramp up a lot
This excess supply then puts downward pressure on the pricing

Besides it is just as likely you filled up your car with gas refined from crude from Venezuela , the middle east or Edmonton as opposed to US shale

The price at the pumps here is 35% tax
That's the big reason you see higher prices here and less of a movement when world oil move
Did you not study percentages in school ?

No seriously, I strongly suggest you spend some time researching the oil industry as you have a lot of misconceptions

Again you did not read the links that I attached. Obviously you are repeating what the right wing press want people to believe.
I said it various times before that these are different oil companies but the manner in which they set the price of oil at the pumps is like a monopoly. Take the pricing of bottled water. You get a range of different prices with the different brands. That is true competition. The graph that I showed along with the quotations by the experts sums it all. Stop behaving like an arrogant dude who thinks he knows it all. Everyone knows that there are tons of oil companies round the world. Why is it that there are oil cartels desperately trying to set the price of oil? Why is it that the price at the pump varies in an equal manner for all the brands? Why is it that one oil company does not drop it's price at the pumps on a particular day whereas the one opposite the street raises it's prices. They both probably received those particular batches / inventories of the gasoline at different costs. You can go on blah blahing about Daniel Yergin, but I am referring to the basic pricing at the pumps that do not reflect true "free competition".

JohnLarue · Nov 19, 2017

bver_hunter said:
Again you did not read the links that I attached. Obviously you are repeating what the right wing press want people to believe.

You have it wrong and I will not spend my time trying to figure out why you have it wrong

I said it various times before that these are different oil companies but the manner in which they set the price of oil at the pumps is like a monopoly.

No you said the oil industry is a monopoly
With hundreds maybe even thousands of oil companies that is just not true

pump prices are impacted by a lot of different factors ,but ultimately the market sets the price
there is no Thursday meeting of grumpy old oil execs whos objective is to secretly screw over beaver hunter

There have been numerous govermnet studies into the possibility of price fixing of gasoline. None of them have amounted to anything

Take the pricing of bottled water. You get a range of different prices with the different brands. That is true competition.

So what?

The graph that I showed along with the quotations by the experts sums it all.

Again you think your graph confirms a monopoly?

You are stupid beyond belief

Stop behaving like an arrogant dude who thinks he knows it all.

But I clearly know more than you.

Everyone knows that there are tons of oil companies round the world. Why is it that there are oil cartels desperately trying to set the price of oil?

Any why is it that they have been unsuccessful at setting the price?
because there is so much other competition to sell oil

Why is it that the price at the pump varies in an equal manner for all the brands? Why is it that one oil company does not drop it's price at the pumps on a particular day whereas the one opposite the street raises it's prices.

They will as soon as they start to lose market share

They both probably received those particular batches / inventories of the gasoline at different costs.

Given there is price volatility in crude price and frac spreads and each likely has different marketing, distribution transportation & storage cost. That is a valid assumption.

Yet they all sell at the market price, and each company receives a different margin.
Why because the market sets the price, not the oil companies

You can go on blah blahing about Daniel Yergin, but I am referring to the basic pricing at the pumps that do not reflect true "free competition".

well you are a fool who prefers to believe in conspiracy rather than educating your self

bver_hunter · Nov 19, 2017

JohnLarue said:
You have it wrong and I will not spend my time trying to figure out why you have it wrong

No you said the oil industry is a monopoly
With hundreds maybe even thousands of oil companies that is just not true

pump prices are impacted by a lot of different factors ,but ultimately the market sets the price
there is no Thursday meeting of grumpy old oil execs whos objective is to secretly screw over beaver hunter

There have been numerous govermnet studies into the possibility of price fixing of gasoline. None of them have amounted to anything

So what?

Again you think your graph confirms a monopoly?

You are stupid beyond belief

But I clearly know more than you.

Any why is it that they have been unsuccessful at setting the price?
because there is so much other competition to sell oil

They will as soon as they start to lose market share

Given there is price volatility in crude price and frac spreads and each likely has different marketing, distribution transportation & storage cost. That is a valid assumption.

Yet they all sell at the market price, and each company receives a different margin.
Why because the market sets the price, not the oil companies

well you are a fool who prefers to believe in conspiracy rather than educating your self

Again it is just a big headache reading your nonsense.
You have no real answers to any of the questions, including what this thread was about.
Even when PM Harpo wanted some stability in the gas prices and dined and danced with the CEOs of the oil companies, it is because he thought that the Canadians were gouged at the pumps.
You are a dump guy who thinks that it is a free market at the pumps. Continue doing so, as from your logic if the market sets the price then who exactly is regulating the price at the pumps?? The market sets the price of gold but you can get various prices for the gold bars depending on the sources that you buy it from. That does not happen at the pumps on a given day. Read these interesting articles:

http://www.kanowskylaw.com/ARTICLES...e-we-consumers-victims-of-a-gas-monopoly.aspx

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/2014/10/p...g-oils-monopoly-and-how-america-can-break-it/

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/motor-mouth-yes-its-true-were-getting-pinched-at-the-pumps

JohnLarue · Nov 19, 2017

bver_hunter said:
Again it is just a big headache reading your nonsense.

Factual explanations give you a headache?
Well that partially explains why you know next to nothing about the oil industry and gasoline prices

You have no real answers to any of the questions, including what this thread was about.

Really?

The question in the thread title is "If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?
I provided the answer to that question, "taxes".
35 % of the pump price is taxes and that is why our gas is so expensive

So again you type but you do not think about what you type
That approach will not get you through high school

Even when PM Harpo wanted some stability in the gas prices and dined and danced with the CEOs of the oil companies, it is because he thought that the Canadians were gouged at the pumps.

Conspiracy around every corner is there?

You are a dump guy who thinks that it is a free market at the pumps.

A dump guy?
well I try to stay regular, but I am not sure how that is relavant

Continue doing so, as from your logic if the market sets the price then who exactly is regulating the price at the pumps??

No one is regulating it. (Thankfully)
Supply and demand sets the price

The market sets the price of gold but you can get various prices for the gold bars depending on the sources that you buy it from. That does not happen at the pumps on a given day.

oil and gold are both commodities , the price is set by the market
$10 on a bar of gold from dealer to dealer does not validate your oil conspiracy (nutjob ) theory

Read these interesting articles:

http://www.kanowskylaw.com/ARTICLES...e-we-consumers-victims-of-a-gas-monopoly.aspx

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/2014/10/p...g-oils-monopoly-and-how-america-can-break-it/

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/motor-mouth-yes-its-true-were-getting-pinched-at-the-pumps

I will not waste my time on conspiracy theories.

Once again if you had any real understanding about the oil industry you would know it can not be a monopoly and there are not eight grumpy old men meeting secretly once a month to set world prices on a 90-100 Million barrels a day commodity.

Frankfooter · Nov 19, 2017

JohnLarue said:
oil and gold are both commodities , the price is set by the market

So its not taxes then.

bver_hunter · Nov 20, 2017

.

JohnLarue said:
Factual explanations give you a headache?
Well that partially explains why you know next to nothing about the oil industry and gasoline prices

Really?

The question in the thread title is "If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?
I provided the answer to that question, "taxes".
35 % of the pump price is taxes and that is why our gas is so expensive

So again you type but you do not think about what you type
That approach will not get you through high school

Conspiracy around every corner is there?

A dump guy?
well I try to stay regular, but I am not sure how that is relavant

No one is regulating it. (Thankfully)
Supply and demand sets the price

oil and gold are both commodities , the price is set by the market
$10 on a bar of gold from dealer to dealer does not validate your oil conspiracy (nutjob ) theory

I will not waste my time on conspiracy theories.

Once again if you had any real understanding about the oil industry you would know it can not be a monopoly and there are not eight grumpy old men meeting secretly once a month to set world prices on a 90-100 Million barrels a day commodity.

Taxes = Free Market Prices. Oic that is your theory. Hydro is taxed as well, so it is not a monopoly, but just a free market price!!!
Is there anything that is a monopoly then?? Guess, not 407ETR as well.
Was gas not taxed prior to the middle of 2014? After the middle of 2014 the price of gas at the pumps was out of trend and much higher than what it should have been according to the trend in that graph. Almost double if you extrapolate that trend line. So what is your explanation for this out of trend.

Clearly, one of the links included Dan McTeague who did infer that it is a monopoly at the pumps.
But he is a "conspiracy" theorist to you.
You have proved nothing, just go back to primary school, then they will teach you how to read.
They may even explain what taxes mean, okay, and how to do the maths to factor it in?

Hey you nutcase, I got more than $10 discounts for the gold bars from a very reliable source. Even if you can get such a difference it is because it is genuinely a free market, not a regulated market like gas at the pumps. You are scoring another own goal.

JohnLarue · Nov 20, 2017

Frankfooter said:
So its not taxes then.

Once again you prove your intellect
Oil prices are set by the market
Gas prices are set by the market and Canadian gasoline has a layer of 35% tax added on, where as the US tax burden is significantly lower

So the answer to the question
"If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?
is taxes

bver_hunter · Nov 20, 2017

JohnLarue said:
Once again you prove your intellect
Oil prices are set by the market
Gas prices are set by the market and Canadian gasoline has a layer of 35% tax added on, where as the US tax burden is significantly lower

So the answer to the question
"If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?
is taxes

You still have not explained why the oil prices has doubled in relation to the trending extrapolation.
There were taxes in place before they doubled as well.

JohnLarue · Nov 20, 2017

bver_hunter said:
Taxes = Free Market Prices. Oic that is your theory.

Oic ??? English please

Oil prices are set by the market
Gas prices are set by the market and Canadian gasoline has a layer of 35% tax added on, where as the US tax burden is significantly lower

So the answer to the question
"If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?
is taxes

Hydro is taxed as well, so it is not a monopoly, but just a free market price!!!

Hydro pricing is highly regulated, so no it is not a free market price

Is there anything that is a monopoly then?? Guess, not 407ETR as well.

The public sector union business does not appear to be impacted by the laws of supply and demand so there is a good monopoly

Was gas not taxed prior to the middle of 2014? After the middle of 2014 the price of gas at the pumps was out of trend and much higher than what it should have been according to the trend in that graph. Almost double if you extrapolate that trend line. So what is your explanation for this out of trend.

My explanation for that trend?
Well it is a graph being read and interpreted by an uninformed uneducated person with preconceived belief in oil conspiracy

Clearly, one of the links included Dan McTeague who did infer that it is a monopoly at the pumps.
But he is a "conspiracy" theorist to you.

Sure
The oil monopoly garbage has been kicking around since oil was discovered.
Ant-trust laws broke up Standard oil and since then the number of oil producers has grow into the thousands, with the biggest accounting for less than 10% of the worlds production (90 MM barrels a day)
Do you really think 30 grumpy old men meet once a month to conspire to screw you over at the pump?
If they had that kind of control the price per barrel would be a lot closer to $100 vs $50

You have proved nothing,

You mean you have learned nothing

just go back to primary school, then they will teach you how to read.
They may even explain what taxes mean, okay, and how to do the maths to factor it in?

how to do the maths ?
Perhaps you may wish to re-educate yourself and learn to write

Hey you nutcase, I got more than $10 discounts for the gold bars from a very reliable source.

Fascinated by graphs and shinny metals are you ?
Get back to us when you understand the economics

Even if you can get such a difference it is because it is genuinely a free market, not a regulated market like gas at the pumps. You are scoring another own goal.

So genius who is regulating the price at the pumps?
Name them

That's the thing about a conspiracy theory, it is long on speculation and short on facts.

bver_hunter · Nov 20, 2017

JohnLarue said:
Oic ??? English please

Oil prices are set by the market
Gas prices are set by the market and Canadian gasoline has a layer of 35% tax added on, where as the US tax burden is significantly lower

So the answer to the question
"If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?
is taxes

Hydro pricing is highly regulated, so no it is not a free market price

The public sector union business does not appear to be impacted by the laws of supply and demand so there is a good monopoly (assuming you do not mind extorting your income)

My explanation for that trend?
Well it is a graph being read and interpreted by an uninformed uneducated person with preconceived belief in oil conspiracy

Sure
The oil monopoly garbage has been kicking around since oil was discovered.
Ant-trust laws broke up Standard oil and since then the number of oil producers has grow into the thousands, with the biggest accounting for less than 10% of the worlds production (90 MM barrels a day)
Do you really think 30 grumpy old men meet once a month to conspire to screw you over at the pump?
If they had that kind of control the price per barrel would be a lot closer to $100 vs $50

You mean you have learned nothing

how to do the maths ?
Perhaps you may wish to re-educate yourself and learn to write

Fascinated by graphs and shinny metals are you ?
Get back to us when you understand the economics

So genius who is regulating the price at the pumps?
Name them

That's the thing about a conspiracy theory, it is long on speculation and short on facts.

Total drivel and no real substance.
If you have not come across the posts on this plus many other forums that oic is short for oh I see, then keep on living in that cocoon that you are stuck in.
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...KEwjX64rtp87XAhXk5YMKHa6oBt0QrQMIIDAI&start=2
I guess you do not know how to construct a sentence with the word "maths" in it.
All in all no real explanation from you as to why gasoline prices at the pumps are real free market competition.

Frankfooter · Nov 20, 2017

JohnLarue said:
Once again you prove your intellect
Oil prices are set by the market
....

So the answer to the question
"If Canada has so much oil, why does our gasoline cost so much?

What was that you were saying about intellect?
And why can't you connect the two very big and close dots?

Hey, socialists and anarchists are helping hold Puerto Rico together, after the disaster capitalism failure.
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/11/17/puerto-ricos-diy-disaster-relief/

JohnLarue · Nov 20, 2017

Frankfooter said:
What was that you were saying about intellect?
And why can't you connect the two very big and close dots?

You left out the tax part
It joins the two dots

Hey, socialists and anarchists are helping hold Puerto Rico together, after the disaster capitalism failure.
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/11/17/puerto-ricos-diy-disaster-relief/[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
It is bad story there, a nightmare for the people

Where are the socialists and anarchists going to get the $ Billions needed to get the job done?
Governments
Where do governments obtain their funds?
Capitalism i.e. Business and employees taxes, consumption taxes, trade and borrowing

bver_hunter · Nov 20, 2017

JohnLarue said:
You left out the tax part
It joins the two dots dummy

Good luck to them, it is bad story there, a nightmare for the people
Any good they do there is a great thing

Where are the socialists and anarchists going to get the $ Billions needed to get the job done?
Governments
Where do governments obtain their funds?
Capitalism i.e. Business and employees taxes, consumption taxes, trade and borrowing[/QUOTE]

I thought China is a Socialist State that is funding the US trillions in debt.

JohnLarue · Nov 20, 2017

bver_hunter said:
Total drivel and no real substance.
If you have not come across the posts on this plus many other forums that oic is short for oh I see, then keep on living in that cocoon that you are stuck in.
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...KEwjX64rtp87XAhXk5YMKHa6oBt0QrQMIIDAI&start=2
I guess you do not know how to construct a sentence with the word "maths" in it.
All in all no real explanation from you as to why gasoline prices at the pumps are real free market competition.

You did not answer the question

Even if you can get such a difference it is because it is genuinely a free market, not a regulated market like gas at the pumps.

So genius who is regulating the price at the pumps?
Name them

If Canada has so much oil, why is our gasoline so expensive?

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