CBC: Forget the 'slippery slope' — Israel already is an apartheid state

basketcase · Nov 19, 2017

Frankfooter said:
...

Now that you've stated you stand by UN statements, its time to state fully that the occupation is illegal.

I'll take the UNSC and UNGA who endorse a Two State peace as the only solution to the conflict over the guy hired by the Dictator Rights Council.

And the official stance of everyone involved (except Hamas, Fatah's armed wing, and you) is a Two State peace based on the 1949 armistice lines with land swaps.

Frankfooter · Nov 19, 2017

basketcase said:
I'll take the UNSC

Great.
UN SC resolution 242 - 'inadmissibility of acquisition of territory by war'
UN SC resolution 476
UN SC resolution 2334 - calls for Israel to obey all previous resolutions and condemns the settlements

Those are all security council resolutions for which Israel has failed to obey.

According to UN SC 242 all the settlements are illegal.
Why do you still support this war crime?

Prove you support the two state solution and the rule of law by publicly stating that Israel has to obey those UN Security Council resolutions.

basketcase · Nov 20, 2017

Frankfooter said:
Great.....

So that means you now support a negotiated two state peace or are you still trying to force the Palestinians into a farce they detest?

p.s. You should read those resolutions. For example, 242 requires "(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;"

To this day, Hamas and much of Fatah reject that basic commitment so it is laughable that you only expect Israel to be held to that standard.

Frankfooter · Nov 20, 2017

basketcase said:
So that means you now support a negotiated two state peace or are you still trying to force the Palestinians into a farce they detest?

p.s. You should read those resolutions. For example, 242 requires "(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;"
.

I'd fully support the two state solution should both sides agree, but since Israel won't give up settlements, go back to 1947 borders or allow the return of the refugees we both know that's never going to happen.

Since you've stated that you think UN SC resolutions are legit, you must call for Israel (as well as Palestinians) to hold to these resolutions.

UN SC resolution 242 - 'inadmissibility of acquisition of territory by war'
UN SC resolution 476
UN SC resolution 2334 - calls for Israel to obey all previous resolutions and condemns the settlements

Those are all security council resolutions for which Israel has failed to obey.

According to UN SC 242 all the settlements are illegal.
Why do you still support this war crime?

happ · Nov 20, 2017

You come to this country and don't support our allies including Israel get the fuck out!

Frankfooter · Nov 20, 2017

happ said:
You come to this country and don't support our allies including Israel get the fuck out!

I support Canadian values like equal rights.
If you don't support equal rights and the rule of law, then you should get the eff out, sir.

Apartheid isn't a Canadian value.

canada-man · Nov 21, 2017

Among Israeli Arabs, only 14% identify themselves as “Palestinians,” and they are mostly Muslims, a new study found.

The Arab citizens of Israel represent a little more than 20% of the state’s overall population, 83.5% of whom are Muslims, 8.9% Christians, and 7.6% Druze. According to the new study (Jews and Arabs: Conditional Partnership), issued by The Israel Democracy Institute, the complex relationship between Jews and Arabs in the State of Israel exists on three levels that do not necessarily overlap: state, societal and interpersonal.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/jew...bs-see-themselves-as-palestinians/2017/11/19/

toguy5252 · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
I support Canadian values like equal rights.
If you don't support equal rights and the rule of law, then you should get the eff out, sir.

Apartheid isn't a Canadian value.

Well then you should be a big supporter of Israel. Why don't you compare the rights of Muslims and Christians in Isreal to the rights of Jews and Christians in any state which is primarily Muslim.

Frankfooter · Nov 21, 2017

toguy5252 said:
Well then you should be a big supporter of Israel. Why don't you compare the rights of Muslims and Christians in Isreal to the rights of Jews and Christians in any state which is primarily Muslim.

Lebanon used to the most pluralistic Arabic state, 'course Israel invaded it and its been screwed up since.
Iraq also used to be quite secular, before the US invaded it and screwed it up.
Syria was a known police state, but even so ran fairly well before it got screwed up.
Saudi Arabia is supposed to be an ally, but they're totally messed up.
Iran has Jewish elected officials.

And no Arabic state has been accused of apartheid.
So none of them are quite as bad as Israel it appears, thanks for pointing that out.

canada-man · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
Lebanon used to the most pluralistic Arabic state, 'course Israel invaded it and its been screwed up since.
Iraq also used to be quite secular, before the US invaded it and screwed it up.
Syria was a known police state, but even so ran fairly well before it got screwed up.
Saudi Arabia is supposed to be an ally, but they're totally messed up.
Iran has Jewish elected officials.

And no Arabic state has been accused of apartheid.
So none of them are quite as bad as Israel it appears, thanks for pointing that out.

4

Israel was attacked by PLO terrorists in Israel.

no Arabic state has been accused by apartheid because the same people who whine abut Israel aparthied have no problems with Arab states that are racists towards blacks, Sudan wage a genocideal campaign again native blacks of Darfur and South Sudan. Sudan foight 2 civil wars against the blacks of south sudan. Mauritania still have blacks in slavery, etc

toguy5252 · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
Lebanon used to the most pluralistic Arabic state, 'course Israel invaded it and its been screwed up since.
Iraq also used to be quite secular, before the US invaded it and screwed it up.
Syria was a known police state, but even so ran fairly well before it got screwed up.
Saudi Arabia is supposed to be an ally, but they're totally messed up.
Iran has Jewish elected officials.

And no Arabic state has been accused of apartheid.
So none of them are quite as bad as Israel it appears, thanks for pointing that out.

I notice that you refer to each of these states as "used to" etc. How about now. Hezbollah has effectively taken over Lebanon as a proxy for Iran. Iraq was under the thumb of a brutal dictator. Ditto for Syria. There is no religious freedom or tolerance in SA. I assume that in using Iran as a model for equal rights etc. it is an attempt at humor and it is pretty funny.

Frankfooter · Nov 21, 2017

canada-man said:
4
no Arabic state has been accused by apartheid

Apartheid is one down from genocide as the worst human rights violations.

Frankfooter · Nov 21, 2017

toguy5252 said:
I notice that you refer to each of these states as "used to" etc. How about now. Hezbollah has effectively taken over Lebanon as a proxy for Iran. Iraq was under the thumb of a brutal dictator. Ditto for Syria. There is no religious freedom or tolerance in SA. I assume that in using Iran as a model for equal rights etc. it is an attempt at humor and it is pretty funny.

All those states are in sad shape today, they had issues before but since the invasions they are basketcases.
Lebanon just had their leader kidnapped by the Saudis, to pressure Hezbollah.
Hezbollah only exists because Israel invaded.
Iraq is a failed state with a corrupt puppet government.
Ditto for Afghanistan.
Syria became the playground for a handful of states and groups, its a failed state now under Russian patronage.

Assad and Saddam were brutal dictators, but the people of those countries were way better off under them then they are now.

Iran is a theocracy, with major issues but they are at least becoming more moderate. Comparatively.

basketcase · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
I'd fully support the two state solution should both sides agree,...

You are flat out lying here. You have continually argued Israel isn't legitimate and have supported Palestinian rejectionism of the idea of peace.

UN Resolutions call for a negotiated solution to the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict including the definition of final borders, something the Palestinians refuse to do even when offered a deal completely compliant with the Arab League plan.

Settlements are just buildings and Israel has repeatedly shown a willingness to trade land for peace.

p.s. Israel already has peace deals with the countries 242 refers too (except Syria).

basketcase · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
I support Canadian values like equal rights....

Then why do you support the continual rejection of peace and promotion of violence from the Palestinian leadership?

You've even claimed that civilians are legitimate targets if the live in the West Bank. Very un-Canadian.

basketcase · Nov 21, 2017

toguy5252 said:
Well then you should be a big supporter of Israel. Why don't you compare the rights of Muslims and Christians in Isreal to the rights of Jews and Christians in any state which is primarily Muslim.

Because that would mean admitting Israel isn't the source of all evil in the world.

basketcase · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
Lebanon used to the most pluralistic Arabic state, 'course Israel invaded it and its been screwed up since.....

Lebanon was in civil war for 7 years before Israel invaded. Syria occupied Lebanon from 5 years before Israel's invasion of the south until 5 years after Israel left.

But sure, you'll blame Israel for the problems.

basketcase · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
...
Syria was a known police state, but even so ran fairly well before it got screwed up....

Holy shit. Are you really arguing that?

I get it; Syrian dictator good, Israel bad.

Galseigin · Nov 21, 2017

happ said:
You come to this country and don't support our allies including Israel get the fuck out!

Frank is a known terrorist apologist.

basketcase · Nov 21, 2017

Frankfooter said:
...
Iran has Jewish elected officials.....

Speaking of apartheid, Iran does NOT allow religious minorities to participate in political life. Jews and the rest are only allowed to vote for their one token representative and all other government positions are restricted to devout Shia.

It's amazing that your hate against Israel goes so far that you defend those monstrous governments.

CBC: Forget the 'slippery slope' — Israel already is an apartheid state

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