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Blue Jays 2018 Season (Good Riddance 2017)

Dawgger

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Remains to be seen... but very difficult to compare... the game and the management strategies are so different from what they were in Gillick's years.

I am a great fan of Gillick's. He simply had a nose for picking out talent and putting teams together, like some of the old timers. And neither he nor they had access to the stats, analytics and Sabremetrics we have today.

And you have to admit that Shapero did a great job in Cleveland.

Perry
Nope don't think he did a great job in Cleveland! Besides not filling the stands, the team got better after he left. He was on the right track in his build but he did not get the job done.


Since when does "contending" mean "must win"? And they did contend! In 2015. Largely on Donaldson's MVP year... not to minimize Bautista's, Encarnacion's and Martin's contributions!

Even so, they started falling apart very quickly after that, so they couldn't have been such a great team even then!

Perry
His job when he got here, should have been to finish what AA and Beeston started! It was clear (and If I recall correctly, you Perry, were a critic), that he had no intention of finishing what was started because it would have cost money. AA refused to work under him or with him! Under Shapiro the team is going downhill. So as the team tanks they talk about the prospects and the future, wonder how they will mess that up, but you can be sure when it does, it won't be their fault.
 
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shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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His job when he got should have been to finish what AA and Beeston started! It was clear (and If I recall correctly, you Perry, were a critic), that he had no intention of finishing what was started because it would have cost money.
And, god forbid, he would have had to share credit with AA for what would have largely been AA's team.

Cheapeero needed to deconstruct AA's work so if they do end up being successful, all the credit will be his.
 

Perry Mason

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Aug 20, 2001
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His job when he got here, should have been to finish what AA and Beeston started!
Absolutely not! If Rogers wanted that, they would have extended AA and Beeston.They would be the best men for that job!

I know Beeston wanted to retire, but he has always been open to offers he could not refuse. Or they could easily have hired one of many competent baseball guys as president. AA was pretty much on his own anyways...

Rogers hired Shapeyero to do something different. To build a perennial contender. That is a real money generator for them, in many different ways.

And, yes, I was a critic of Shapeyero at the time he was hired. I have slowly changed my mind. Canada is a free country, isn't it? :yo:

Perry
 

shack

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Absolutely not! If Rogers wanted that, they would have extended AA and Beeston.They would be the best men for that job!

I know Beeston wanted to retire, but he has always been open to offers he could not refuse. Or they could easily have hired one of many competent baseball guys as president. AA was pretty much on his own anyways...

Rogers hired Shapeyero to do something different. To build a perennial contender. That is a real money generator for them,
It looked to me that that is what AA was doing. If he actually could or couldn't is pure speculation at this point. He never got the chance.
 

Dawgger

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Absolutely not! If Rogers wanted that, they would have extended AA and Beeston.They would be the best men for that job!

I know Beeston wanted to retire, but he has always been open to offers he could not refuse. Or they could easily have hired one of many competent baseball guys as president. AA was pretty much on his own anyways...

Rogers hired Shapeyero to do something different. To build a perennial contender. That is a real money generator for them, in many different ways.

And, yes, I was a critic of Shapeyero at the time he was hired. I have slowly changed my mind. Canada is a free country, isn't it? :yo:

Perry
They tried to extend AA and he wouldn't or couldn't work with/for Shapiro.

They hired Shapiro before AA made the deadline trades and Beeston had made it clear he wanted lighter work load. Not sure Shapiro was actually the first choice but we may never know the truth on that.

OK I will give you Shapiro was hired to do something different and so far it has been different. He has taken them from contender to pretender! I agree Jays are a money generator but they were under previous regimes. Rogers realized just how much potential there was as Beeston and AA assembled a strong contending team. I really don't believe the idea was to hire Shapiro to destroy that.
Yes a lot on here were critical of Shapiro and some of us still are. to quote you "Canada is a free country, isn't it"? I hope he proves me wrong, but at this point I don't see the 2018 Blue Jays playing meaningful games in Sept. or Oct.
 

Ref

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Oct 29, 2002
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You guys probably wont believe this, but Gillick lived on my street in Mississauga for a while (Jarvis st. & Dundas (Erindale area)).
Small world! He lived in the same province as I did. I never did run across him though...
 

black booty lover

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Oct 21, 2007
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They tried to extend AA and he wouldn't or couldn't work with/for Shapiro.

They hired Shapiro before AA made the deadline trades and Beeston

One of the first things Shapiro did when he met with AA is fucking scolded him for making all those trades, so suffice to say they were never going to work with each other after AA's contract was up.
 

Don Draper

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One of the first things Shapiro did when he met with AA is fucking scolded him for making all those trades
Can you please back this up with a credible source?

Newspaper article? TV interview?
 

black booty lover

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Can you please back this up with a credible source?

Newspaper article? TV interview?

I'm not what else you consider a "credible source", but there have been many articles on it. Here's one:

https://www.thescore.com/news/866843


Here's an article where Sharpiro denied it, but doesn't mean it didn't happen:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/blue...a-with-anthopoulos-looming-in-background.html

Here's another one from Fox, and Ken Rosenthal was the one that reported, who is one of the better baseball insiders out there:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/...poulos-incoming-ceo-shapiro-butted-heads.html
 

Dawgger

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I'm not what else you consider a "credible source", but there have been many articles on it. Here's one:

https://www.thescore.com/news/866843


Here's an article where Sharpiro denied it, but doesn't mean it didn't happen:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/blue...a-with-anthopoulos-looming-in-background.html

Here's another one from Fox, and Ken Rosenthal was the one that reported, who is one of the better baseball insiders out there:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/...poulos-incoming-ceo-shapiro-butted-heads.html
Well done bbl.

I had heard AA interviewed by Bobcat and he was really non committal as to why he would not sign an extension, but you could sense friction between him and Shapiro.
 

Dawgger

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Jays pick up Grichuk from the Cardinals for Leone and a prospect.
Wow so exciting! Lots of outfielders, not sure how good they are. This guy excite anyone? Dominic Leone was far from awful last year, Connor Green has wicked speed but at this point not much control.
Don't think Jays gave up a lot so fair trade I guess.

What happened to bringing in Martinez, Cain, McCutcheon etc.? Anyone excited about the coming season?
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Jays pick up Grichuk from the Cardinals for Leone and a prospect.
That might be a good trade. Grichuk is only 26 and has never played a full season in MLB.
He could be a 30-homerun guy if he ever plays a full season
 

Don Draper

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Nov 24, 2009
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I'm not what else you consider a "credible source", but there have been many articles on it. Here's one:

https://www.thescore.com/news/866843


Here's an article where Sharpiro denied it, but doesn't mean it didn't happen:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/blue...a-with-anthopoulos-looming-in-background.html

Here's another one from Fox, and Ken Rosenthal was the one that reported, who is one of the better baseball insiders out there:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/...poulos-incoming-ceo-shapiro-butted-heads.html
Well done.

Researched and thorough.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spo...n-he-died-autopsy/article37673636/?cmpid=rss1

Doc had morphine and amphetamine in his body when he died, autopsy says
The morphine doesnt necessarily mean anything. If I took two tylenol 3's today some of the codeine would revert into morphine and my piss could test positive the next 2 days for morphine.

The amphetamine is what Jim Bouton talks a lot about in his book "Ball Four". They called them Greenies back in his days.
I find it odd for a guy who retired 4 years ago that he was still popping those pills
 

Ref

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Oct 29, 2002
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Thanks.

I'm sure some people would still argue that it was just a rumor, but I believe where's the smoke there's fire.
I could see that happening. The new GM (Shapiro) would be pretty pissed that the farm system was depleted, however the time was right to take the gamble. The run differential screamed that they had the team to make a run for it, and the trades proved that theory correct. Even though 2015 did not pan out, they still had a chance in 2016. I have only looked up a few of the players from the farm system that were traded away, but their stats do not jump off the page. At this stage, I still think the Jays got a better return on those trades than if they would have kept those players. We are stuck with a Tulo and Martin, however we had two years where it was possible to win it all. Have to admit though, those two years provided some Blue Jay highlights that will stick with the team for decades (Jose bat flip, Donaldson dash and Eddie's dinger over Baltimore in extras).

https://www.sportingcharts.com/mlb/stats/team-run-differential/2015/

Run differential although not always perfect (which stat is), has been consistent over several years.

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2...ed-sox-phillies-evaluate-team-sabermetrically
 
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