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TRump said, " Answer the question. Should we take down statues of George Washington?"

Bud Plug

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And we'll see complaints when others use their right of free speech to oppose the likely racism that will come from this rally.
As long as they're not "speaking" with bullets, knives, baseball bats or fists, or trying to incite a riot. I don't think you'll find anyone saying they don't have a right to protest or communicate their views. And, of course, if their views are inaccurate and/or dishonest, I'm assuming you won't have a problem when people point that out.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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If you look hard enough at anyone's past, you will find undesirable things. Even Mother Teresa had done some questionable things in her past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

I think that removing statues, renaming places, etc. are just token gestures and do nothing to address the underlying racial issues. People are right to protest the removal of such things, but the neo-nazis and white supremacists took advantage and used it to forward their agenda.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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As long as they're not "speaking" with bullets, knives, baseball bats or fists, or trying to incite a riot. I don't think you'll find anyone saying they don't have a right to protest or communicate their views. And, of course, if their views are inaccurate and/or dishonest, I'm assuming you won't have a problem when people point that out.
Yet we will see the protesters complaining at being shouted down.


And if the racists pretending to protest about free speech show up armed I'm sure you will be here to denounce them.
 

Bud Plug

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Yet we will see the protesters complaining at being shouted down.


And if the racists pretending to protest about free speech show up armed I'm sure you will be here to denounce them.
Well, let's be clear about something. Simply trying to drown out someone else in a flood of noise is an attempt to deny them their right of free speech, not an exercise of speech. Exercising free speech is about engaging those opposed to you in dialogue, or presenting your own views in the public square. Mindless chants meant to drown out speakers is not the sort of public discourse that waters the tree of democracy.
 

explorerzip

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Well, let's be clear about something. Simply trying to drown out someone else in a flood of noise is an attempt to deny them their right of free speech, not an exercise of speech. Exercising free speech is about engaging those opposed to you in dialogue, or presenting your own views in the public square. Mindless chants meant to drown out speakers is not the sort of public discourse that waters the tree of democracy.
This is why race issues will never be solved so long as people want to one-up the other side.
 

fuji

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Well, let's be clear about something. Simply trying to drown out someone else in a flood of noise is an attempt to deny them their right of free speech, not an exercise of speech. Exercising free speech is about engaging those opposed to you in dialogue, or presenting your own views in the public square. Mindless chants meant to drown out speakers is not the sort of public discourse that waters the tree of democracy.
Is it your opinion that some explanation is necessary as to why Nazism and white supremacy is wrong?

These people are filled with hate. They are not going to stop being racists just because you sent them a pamphlet on racism. They hate. Hate is not rational.

They need to be confronted and denounced, not negotiated with.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Well, let's be clear about something. Simply trying to drown out someone else in a flood of noise is an attempt to deny them their right of free speech, not an exercise of speech. Exercising free speech is about engaging those opposed to you in dialogue, or presenting your own views in the public square. Mindless chants meant to drown out speakers is not the sort of public discourse that waters the tree of democracy.
Really nice imagery there. In the context of Charlottesville it's just more blather, unless you can describe how the chanting marching Nazis and Klansmen were watering that tree of democracy.

Certainly the symbols they were gathered under never had nanything to do with democracy, human rights or free speech, never mind something as high-minded and idealistic as dialogue (which means 'two-way' as I'm sure you know)
 

Butler1000

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Anbarandy

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This whole 'statue debate' is a Trump initiated distraction to deflect the overwhelming moral condemnation for his support of the unsupportable and his defence of the indefensible.
 

Butler1000

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This whole 'statue debate' is a Trump initiated distraction to deflect the overwhelming moral condemnation for his support of the unsupportable and his defence of the indefensible.
Lol! The statue debate is one created by others! Talk about revisionist!
 

Aardvark154

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This whole 'statue debate' is a Trump initiated distraction to deflect the overwhelming moral condemnation for his support of the unsupportable and his defence of the indefensible.
Oh Baloney, that was how the whole issue was originally framed by the major broadcast networks and newspapers. It wasn't for several days that reporting made clear that this was a Neo-Nazi, not a Southern rights rally.
 

Smallcock

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CNN's Angela Rye Demands Washington & Jefferson Monuments Be Removed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9F3BSv00XI

And there it is
That didn't take long. Once all the monuments are removed, and all historical figures dehumanized, nobody's life will improve.

We're witnessing how once great societies die. Dumb people eventually displace smart people and destroy all of that society's institutions.
 

Bud Plug

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Really nice imagery there. In the context of Charlottesville it's just more blather, unless you can describe how the chanting marching Nazis and Klansmen were watering that tree of democracy.

Certainly the symbols they were gathered under never had nanything to do with democracy, human rights or free speech, never mind something as high-minded and idealistic as dialogue (which means 'two-way' as I'm sure you know)
The counter protest happened Saturday, not Friday during the torch march. The neo-Nazis of Friday night were just a small part of the group gathered on Saturday (many of whom cannot be branded as neo-Nazi, KKK, or white supremacist in their beliefs). Of course, the Saturday demonstration was shut down after only 20 minutes due to the fights started by the counter protesters who left their permit site. As a result, there's no video of the attendees of the Saturday event. Just video of some of the fights.
 

fuji

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The counter protest happened Saturday, not Friday during the torch march. The neo-Nazis of Friday night were just a small part of the group gathered on Saturday (many of whom cannot be branded as neo-Nazi, KKK, or white supremacist in their beliefs). Of course, the Saturday demonstration was shut down after only 20 minutes due to the fights started by the counter protesters who left their permit site. As a result, there's no video of the attendees of the Saturday event. Just video of some of the fights.
Would you participate in an match where many people were waving Nazi flags and of the rest had KKK crosses and white supremacists slogans?

Unless you're thoroughly depraved you would not allow yourself to be associated with those people, you would decline to march alongside them.

And that's the point: the only people who marched were people who are ok with being associated with the KKK and with Nazis.

There were no good people there. Not a single one
 

Anbarandy

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Apr 27, 2006
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Lol! The statue debate is one created by others! Talk about revisionist!
Talk about blind allegiance.

It was at Herr KKKrump's impromptu and notorious press conference that he wailed away about the the removal of Confederate statues and monuments, even likening REL and Jackson to Washington and Jefferson and thus claiming this as HIS ISSUE in an attempt to frame the wider issue of the threat to White culture and this identity politics plays much better than does his overt support and defence of Nazi/KKK/White Nationalists.
 
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