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Don't worry TERB NAZI PARTY - NAZI sympathizer trump has your back

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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Again, if I was at a protest that was suddenly rife with open racism, I would leave no matter how important I felt the cause. The fact that those people stayed showed they were quite comfortable hanging around with open white supremacists.


p.s. The cause itself was hero worship for those who fought for slavery. Not exactly a good fall-back argument.
Politics is a tricky business. You'll never find anyone who agrees with all of your views on everything. The best you can hope for is to address issues that you care about, and hope there is enough political support around your position on that issue. More often than not, that support may come from people you have severe disagreements with on other issues. If you had to abandon your position on any issue that someone reprehensible agreed with you on, or because someone did something reprehensible at a political rally you were there to support, you'd be left with nothing at all. Should everyone have left Trump rallies during the election because a small number of yahoos showed up? If they did, you'd be giving more power to these fringe groups than they could ever dream of! These fringe groups would be the ONLY groups out there demonstrating!

p.s. The basis for the Civil war and the motivations of those who fought for the South and/or have been memorialized are a lot more complex than your summary. Some others, like Aardie, have already posted good material on this, which I would encourage you to read.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Politics is a tricky business. ...
Morals aren't.

If you are the type of person willing top stay at a protest rife with rancid symbols and chants then at best you have no interest in morals. Anyone who stayed at that rally was obviously comfortable with the vile racism on display.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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I don't think that's fair.

People come out for what they believe in, and should be seen and judged as individuals. If someone in VA felt passionate about history, and wanted a statue to remain based only on traditions, he should be allowed to do so even if some clown beside him dresses in a bed sheet. I'm sure a great number who attended were both embarrassed and turned off by the slogans and slurs. Still, they shouldn't have to leave.
...
Anyone looking at the protest would quickly see that the masses were not there to discuss the educational value of statues in public so then they have the choice of being with racists or starting their own event. It's a pretty simple one.

It was not "bad seeds" infiltrating a protest, it was a bad seed protest.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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I don't think that's fair.

People come out for what they believe in, and should be seen and judged as individuals. If someone in VA felt passionate about history, and wanted a statue to remain based only on traditions, he should be allowed to do so even if some clown beside him dresses in a bed sheet. I'm sure a great number who attended were both embarrassed and turned off by the slogans and slurs. Still, they shouldn't have to leave.

The same could be said of the left or counter protestors. They too must hate seeing people with weapons destroy property, and attack people when all they wanted to do was come out and peacefully protest for what they believed is right.

Too many 'bad seeds' integrate into any side, and the end result at any protest is the same - violence and destruction.
So would you join a march dominated by people waving Nazi flags and members of the KKK?

No.

At least I hope you wouldn't.

There were no "good people" at that march, violent or otherwise.
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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Morals aren't.

If you are the type of person willing top stay at a protest rife with rancid symbols and chants then at best you have no interest in morals. Anyone who stayed at that rally was obviously comfortable with the vile racism on display.
You apparently view moral questions and political issues to be one and the same. Just be aware that you live in a world where, for many, these are separate matters, and you have to tolerate (but not necessarily agree with) those with views that are different than your own. Further, it goes without saying, that many moral issues are complex and may involve competing and contradictory principles.

When I was young, I found myself among people I strongly disagreed with (in relation to both their views and behaviours) on several occasions. Some of those differences are so profound that I would not willingly place myself into the company of those people today. Was I immoral not to have immediately left those people at the time? Even today, I sometimes have to meet with people who I think are reprehensible, but I'm meeting with them for a common purpose that I think is necessary or worthwhile. Am I immoral to do so?

Put a slightly different way, should countries like China (guilty of a number of ongoing human rights violations) not be allowed into the United Nations until they are "purified" or their sins? Or can the US/Canada work with them in common purpose to diffuse the threat of North Korea?

If you think moral questions always have obvious answers and dictate obvious actions, you might just be a fascist. Think about that!

I think you'd want to know more about all of the people who attended this rally before you cast judgement over all of them. That would be the moral thing to do.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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I don't think that's fair.

People come out for what they believe in, and should be seen and judged as individuals. If someone in VA felt passionate about history, and wanted a statue to remain based only on traditions, he should be allowed to do so even if some clown beside him dresses in a bed sheet. I'm sure a great number who attended were both embarrassed and turned off by the slogans and slurs. Still, they shouldn't have to leave.

The same could be said of the left or counter protestors. They too must hate seeing people with weapons destroy property, and attack people when all they wanted to do was come out and peacefully protest for what they believed is right.

Too many 'bad seeds' integrate into any side, and the end result at any protest is the same - violence and destruction.
Take a look at the video of the protest at Lee park, Kathleen, and tell us if that looks like fine historians protesting the removal of the statue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVc1hvD6mCw&t=224s
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
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Take a look at the video of the protest at Lee park, Kathleen, and tell us if that looks like fine historians protesting the removal of the statue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVc1hvD6mCw&t=224s
People take videos of what is interesting to them. They don't chronicle everything. The fact that some a-holes came to this demonstration doesn't prove that everyone there was like-minded.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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People take videos of what is interesting to them. They don't chronicle everything. The fact that some a-holes came to this demonstration doesn't prove that everyone there was like-minded.
Please, let reality in.
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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Please, let reality in.
Please post your video chronicling the words and actions of everyone who attended this demonstration. Your assumptions don't fit with the premise of the event. The organizers reached out to disparate groups - thus "unite" the right. Are you claiming that the only people who showed up were KKK and neo-Nazis? Seems unlikely (and at odds with other information about who attended).
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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I don't think that's fair.

People come out for what they believe in, and should be seen and judged as individuals. If someone in VA felt passionate about history, and wanted a statue to remain based only on traditions, he should be allowed to do so even if some clown beside him dresses in a bed sheet. I'm sure a great number who attended were both embarrassed and turned off by the slogans and slurs. Still, they shouldn't have to leave.

The same could be said of the left or counter protestors. They too must hate seeing people with weapons destroy property, and attack people when all they wanted to do was come out and peacefully protest for what they believed is right.

Too many 'bad seeds' integrate into any side, and the end result at any protest is the same - violence and destruction.
Not on this occasion. There were no "fine people" as Trump put it, that were demonstrating with the KKK and the White Supremacists. It was clear from the previous night where there were chants of "We will not be replaced by the Jews" and "Blood and Soil". This was a very antisemitic demonstration. I know you love Trump for his policies, but when people in his own party do come out and denounce his stand, including his own biased media supporters like Fox News, then there is a very big issue here.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Please post your video chronicling the words and actions of everyone who attended this demonstration. Your assumptions don't fit with the premise of the event. The organizers reached out to disparate groups - thus "unite" the right. Are you claiming that the only people who showed up were KKK and neo-Nazis? Seems unlikely (and at odds with other information about who attended).
The people attending the demonstration consciously decided to participate in a march dominated by Nazi paraphernalia and KKK symolism.

No "good person" would ever participate in such a thing.

Everyone in that march should be added to the terrorist watch list.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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The people attending the demonstration consciously decided to participate in a march dominated by Nazi paraphernalia and KKK symolism.

No "good person" would ever participate in such a thing.

Everyone in that march should be added to the terrorist watch list.
And added to Trump's short list for cabinet appointees.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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Please post your video chronicling the words and actions of everyone who attended this demonstration. Your assumptions don't fit with the premise of the event. The organizers reached out to disparate groups - thus "unite" the right. Are you claiming that the only people who showed up were KKK and neo-Nazis? Seems unlikely (and at odds with other information about who attended).
Who are these 'very fine people', these Confederate statute huggers, benign nerdy history buffs and soccer moms who just happened to find themselves amidst a throng of torch bearing, racist chanting, club and gun bearing Nazis?

Show us those who were chanting "we love Robert E. Lee", "don't remove his statute", "we are the statue lovers of America', "please save the statues".

Put some names to these innocents.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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You apparently view moral questions and political issues to be one and the same. ....
Not at all. I just think a moral person would find a way to express their political views without spending time with virulently racist masses.


But I have no problem with people who showed up under the mistaken belief this was really about historical accuracy and left when they realized it was organized by racist fucks.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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People take videos of what is interesting to them. They don't chronicle everything. The fact that some a-holes came to this demonstration doesn't prove that everyone there was like-minded.
It was the a-holes who organized the protest.
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Now even James Murdoch the son of Rupert the owner of Fox News has come out and lashed at Trump. He categorically said that there are "No Good Nazis". He has even pledged $1 million to the ADL.

Trump was wrong, and should apologise for those comments. He has to stop being a pompous, arrogant idiot and should step up to the plate.
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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If only he had actually said there were some good Nazis, Beaver would have a point.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
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Who are these 'very fine people', these Confederate statute huggers, benign nerdy history buffs and soccer moms who just happened to find themselves amidst a throng of torch bearing, racist chanting, club and gun bearing Nazis?

Show us those who were chanting "we love Robert E. Lee", "don't remove his statute", "we are the statue lovers of America', "please save the statues".

Put some names to these innocents.
There's rarely any video of the benign aspects of a demonstration. And usually lots of video of idiots.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Who are these 'very fine people', these Confederate statute huggers, benign nerdy history buffs and soccer moms who just happened to find themselves amidst a throng of torch bearing, racist chanting, club and gun bearing Nazis?

Show us those who were chanting "we love Robert E. Lee", "don't remove his statute", "we are the statue lovers of America', "please save the statues".

Put some names to these innocents.
Maybe only Trump heard those chants. Trust me. LOL.
 
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