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23 million will lose insurance by 2026 under Trumpcare, CBO says

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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As posted above that is already becoming true with the ACA.
IF true, exactly how does this Abomination of a No-Care Act address these issues?

They should rename it The Perverse Reverse Robin Hood Act - a massive flim-flam of the poor to enrich the richest.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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As posted above that is already becoming true with the ACA.
As recently amended.

Bad legislation and self-defeating ideologies aside, fact remains: Americans pay more to get poorer health outcomes, with more going to administrative costs and fewer people being covered than any other developed countries. The original ACA made a start towards bringing the USA up to a comparable standard, the recent changes made things worse, and no one seems to have a plan to do anything but repeal it.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
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As recently amended.

Bad legislation and self-defeating ideologies aside, fact remains: Americans pay more to get poorer health outcomes, with more going to administrative costs and fewer people being covered than any other developed countries. The original ACA made a start towards bringing the USA up to a comparable standard, the recent changes made things worse, and no one seems to have a plan to do anything but repeal it.
The americans are a crazy lot. Studies show an almost universal desire for universal healthcare, but they vote in politicians that are vehemently against it.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
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Hooterville
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onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
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38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
The americans are a crazy lot. Studies show an almost universal desire for universal healthcare, but they vote in politicians that are vehemently against it.
I've not seen the polling on single payer in the US, please share.

California just ran the numbers, would increase costs 200B, which for scale, is more than the states current budget.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/ess...sis-of-single-payer-1495475434-htmlstory.html

As someone who lives in Ohio, I hope CA does this. If it works, great, if it's a financial disaster, I dont pay taxes in CA.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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Most of those are not losing coverage, their young people choosing not to take it.

Obamacare premiums have doubled since the rocky launch, carriers are bolting for the door and those that remain are hiking premiums.

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/obamacare-premiums-hikes-worse-than-thought/
Granted young people aren't always the most rational in the world, but who chooses not to take healthcare when it's available?

I think you meant to say is that young people can't find the money, and that's only gotten worse since the Republicans slashed and further hobbled the ACA they'd originally gutted, and encumbered almost to the point of uselessness.

Had they allowed the original bill to pass, then they could blame Obama and the Democrats, but what they stuck the country with was as much theirs as anyone's, and now they alone own all the 'improvements' since.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
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Granted young people aren't always the most rational in the world, but who chooses not to take healthcare when it's available?

I think you meant to say is that young people can't find the money, and that's only gotten worse since the Republicans slashed and further hobbled the ACA they'd originally gutted, and encumbered almost to the point of uselessness.

Had they allowed the original bill to pass, then they could blame Obama and the Democrats, but what they stuck the country with was as much theirs as anyone's, and now they alone own all the 'improvements' since.
It is a religious kind of fanatics that prevent the republicans (and to some extent the democrats) from creating a universal health care system like every other reasonable country has. It is bizarre.

The evidence for the benefits of a universal health care system is clear for everybody to see.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,835
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It is a religious kind of fanatics that prevent the republicans (and to some extent the democrats) from creating a universal health care system like every other reasonable country has. It is bizarre.

The evidence for the benefits of a universal health care system is clear for everybody to see.
You are not taking into account the number of people employed in the private health care system. Between insurance, pharmaceutical, hospital, clinic, lawyers(for malpractice lawsuits) advertisers(for everyone) tv(reliant on said advertisers) it's worth probably about 20+ percent of the GDP.

And you don't mess with that big a chunk without pushback. And a lot of people prepared to fight for the status quo because that's how they make their living.

I don't think it's insanity that prevents it. It's money.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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You are not taking into account the number of people employed in the private health care system. Between insurance, pharmaceutical, hospital, clinic, lawyers(for malpractice lawsuits) advertisers(for everyone) tv(reliant on said advertisers) it's worth probably about 20+ percent of the GDP.

And you don't mess with that big a chunk without pushback. And a lot of people prepared to fight for the status quo because that's how they make their living.

I don't think it's insanity that prevents it. It's money.
Those wily Canucks began by co-opting all the private players into a scheme that ran under one big umbrella without really changing anything in the existing operation. Once they had everyone signed up — like making every car owner buy insurance, which was once thought impossibly idealistic — that made it attractive for employers to offer premiums as a pay-perk. Finally the law included those workers and the ever-shrinking group of direct payers in the taxbase as they convinced the insurance companies to step aside while OHIP and the other provincial agencies took over their workforce to do the same jobs as swivel servants.

Last I heard the Insurance companies were still profitable and doing quite well selling premium-paid extra benefit plans to employers and unions. And the med schools still have more applicants than they can handle.

The Republican work on the original ACA ensured it would be as awkward, cumbersome and unprofitable as possible, buyt some states still managed to make it work and keep insurance companies willingly involve. The post-Trump amendments put a stop to all of that.

The bottom line is American citizens who make the richest economy in the world are getting the worst health out comes at the highest cost, because they're being expertly fleeced by the best educated, most technically trained and complex establishment in the world (which is, needless to say, among the most expensive). And then there are the doctors and hospitals making themselves rich by making as few people as possible better.

And the Republicans first and only thoughts have been how to stop anyone form fixing any of that.

Give Trump credit, he saw through all that a long time ago. Like anyone with brains who wasn't chained to party, he saw and said single payer for all citizens is affordable best. But he needed a party to win, and hadn't the smarts, the will or both to bend the Party his way.

They bent him. But as a BigTent Party, they have so many unreconciled purposes and plans, the Party has achieved nothing useful except to make them and their President look like they don't know what they want, and haven't a clue how to get it.
 
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danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
4,778
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You are not taking into account the number of people employed in the private health care system. Between insurance, pharmaceutical, hospital, clinic, lawyers(for malpractice lawsuits) advertisers(for everyone) tv(reliant on said advertisers) it's worth probably about 20+ percent of the GDP.

And you don't mess with that big a chunk without pushback. And a lot of people prepared to fight for the status quo because that's how they make their living.

I don't think it's insanity that prevents it. It's money.
In reality, if more americans get coverage and better coverage, it would tend to increase instead of decrease the amount of health care workers. Administration and legal staff would decrease, but who would not like to see a few homeless lawyers.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,835
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In reality, if more americans get coverage and better coverage, it would tend to increase instead of decrease the amount of health care workers. Administration and legal staff would decrease, but who would not like to see a few homeless lawyers.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But tell that to the admins in doctors offices, in legal firms, insurance companies, the shareholders......etc.

They, right or wrongly think it will cost them.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,835
3,482
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Those wily Canucks began by co-opting all the private players into a scheme that ran under one big umbrella without really changing anything in the existing operation. Once they had everyone signed up — like making every car owner buy insurance, which was once thought impossibly idealistic — that made it attractive for employers to offer premiums as a pay-perk. Finally the law included those workers and the ever-shrinking group of direct payers in the taxbase as they convinced the insurance companies to step aside while OHIP and the other provincial agencies took over their workforce to do the same jobs as swivel servants.

Last I heard the Insurance companies were still profitable and doing quite well selling premium-paid extra benefit plans to employers and unions. And the med schools still have more applicants than they can handle.

The Republican work on the original ACA ensured it would be as awkward, cumbersome and unprofitable as possible, buyt some states still managed to make it work and keep insurance companies willingly involve. The post-Trump amendments put a stop to all of that.

The bottom line is American citizens who make the richest economy in the world are getting the worst health out comes at the highest cost, because they're being expertly fleeced by the best educated, most technically trained and complex establishment in the world (which is, needless to say, among the most expensive). And then there are the doctors and hospitals making themselves rich by making as few people as possible better.

And the Republicans first and only thoughts have been how to stop anyone form fixing any of that.

Give Trump credit, he saw through all that a long time ago. Like anyone with brains who wasn't chained to party, he saw and said single payer for all citizens is affordable best. But he need a party to win, and hadn't the smarts, the will or both to bend the Party his way.

They bent him.
The biggest thing was the healthcare providers in Canada weren't big corporations but small operations. Made it a lot easier as they didn't have the money or the organization to fight back.

US now has that to deal with to achieve universal health care. And they are paying big bucks to politicians to see that it doesn't. Add in a press where if you watch any network news about half the commercials are healthcare related.......

Ever notice there are fewer and fewer "bad healthcare" stories where Corp are to blame? It's actual collusion there as well. For money.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
9,831
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Let's hope that the majority of that 23 million were Trump voters.........ain't Kharma a bitch?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
The biggest thing was the healthcare providers in Canada weren't big corporations but small operations. Made it a lot easier as they didn't have the money or the organization to fight back.

US now has that to deal with to achieve universal health care. And they are paying big bucks to politicians to see that it doesn't. Add in a press where if you watch any network news about half the commercials are healthcare related.......

Ever notice there are fewer and fewer "bad healthcare" stories where Corp are to blame? It's actual collusion there as well. For money.
Not as big as American insurers, but certainly the biggest we had. And as the biggest insurance companies in Canada, they were well able to fight back. The point is the government of the day sold the people on the concept that no one should be bankrupted by healthcare they had to buy or die because they couldn't afford it. They sold the industry on the benefits of the hugely increased pools of mandatory coverage, and the doctors on no more dunning for unpaid bills and charity-cases. Committed to making it happen, the government made it a win-win-win that came on in tolerable increments they persuaded participants to like.

Americans seem to have a fondness for outright wins, which define everyone else in the game as losers. Certainly from one end to the other the Obamacare imbroglio has been cast as 'we must win this one, and do everything we can to see they lose. An d no one seems to notice the losers are the American people, paying the highest prices, for the worst health outcomes because of the most obstructive and costliest paper-burden in the world.
 
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