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NHL MVP: Crosby or McDavid?

ultistar

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Apr 18, 2009
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Both are explosive players who were keys to pulling their teams into the playoffs.

Crosby: 44G, 45A
McDavid: 30G, 70A

Though CM had the big lead in points 100 vs 89, there's always higher value given to goals. Since you can have upto 2 assists on a given, goals are considered about 1.5X assists.

SC: 66 + 45 = 111
CM: 45 + 70 = 115

Pretty much dead even with Crosby doing it in 7 fewer games.

So it comes down to the current superstar vs the next one; reminds me of the Gretzky vs Lemieux MVP contest way back. Mario had the better all-round numbers but the voters gave the MVP to Gretz for all that he did for the game.

I also think voters will have the image of SC hoisting the Stanly Cup last spring influencing their vote. They shouldn't consider last years playoffs but I think subconsciously it's going to sway the voters. Plus, McDavid plays in a small media market.

I think the betting line is showing about 2:1 in favour of McDavid based on some formula, but I think Crosby could take this one before passing the torch to CM.
 

K Douglas

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Jan 5, 2005
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I think you have to give the edge to Crosby because the writers want to reward him before his career starts to fade. McDavid will be in contention for many future MVP's. This kid is really something special.
 

kyleb899

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Sep 9, 2011
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I think you have to give the edge to Crosby because the writers want to reward him before his career starts to fade. McDavid will be in contention for many future MVP's. This kid is really something special.
I think Connor McDavid will be better than Sidney Crosby.
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Though CM had the big lead in points 100 vs 89, there's always higher value given to goals. Since you can have upto 2 assists on a given, goals are considered about 1.5X assists.
I understand the concept but I have never seen this formula applied. Do you have a reference for that?

So it comes down to the current superstar vs the next one; reminds me of the Gretzky vs Lemieux MVP contest way back. Mario had the better all-round numbers but the voters gave the MVP to Gretz for all that he did for the game.
Gretz and Mario were only 4 years apart in age whereas Sid and McD are 10 years apart, so I can see the passing the torch idea applying more to 87 and 97. 99 and 66 were at the tops of their games simultaneously for longer. As well, there was only one year, 88/89 where Wayne won the Hart and Mario had more points.

99, 66 and 97 are/were all spectacular offensively. Mario's goals were flashier which is why, IMO, some people think he was greater, but nobody ever had numbers so far ahead of everyone else than 99. Gretzky had seasons where he was light years ahead.

87 is the only one who also makes a significant defensive contribution along with his great offensive numbers. He plays with more sandpaper and that is why I say he wins the Hart this year in spite of 97 having slightly better numbers.
 

Ref

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I would take McDavid this year due to what he has been able to do with a full season. Edmonton has had an abundance of talent for the past year or two, but have not had that leader. McDavid has provided the leadership needed.

Hell, if you talk MVP I think Matthews deserves it for his role in transforming a sad sack club such as the Leafs to a future of promise. All of the rookies upped their game due to his leadership right from the start of the season.
 

bullitt

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Nov 7, 2005
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crosby still the best player, since he came into the league. i,d take him before greztky, and for sure over that big suck lemieuex.
 

SkyRider

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I think Gretzky had a much better supporting cast than Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid ever had. Just look at the number of Gretzky's teammates in the hockey HOF. If Lemiux had played on those old Oiler teams, he would have racked up 200 points per season.
 

ultistar

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I understand the concept but I have never seen this formula applied. Do you have a reference for that?

.
http://www.pensburgh.com/2010/7/23/1584729/goals-assists-and-equality

I googled and found several links, the most interesting is above. it's from 2010 when H Sedin racked up a huge numbers of A which resulted in the most overall Points en route to his MVP year.

Again Crosby had the most goals and the writer argues that adjusting his 51 goals by 1.73 (my 1.5x was in fact low), and SC was the most productive in 2010, as he is again in 2017.

Hopefully he doesn't get robbed of MVP again.
 

shack

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http://www.pensburgh.com/2010/7/23/1584729/goals-assists-and-equality

I googled and found several links, the most interesting is above. it's from 2010 when H Sedin racked up a huge numbers of A which resulted in the most overall Points en route to his MVP year.

Again Crosby had the most goals and the writer argues that adjusting his 51 goals by 1.73 (my 1.5x was in fact low), and SC was the most productive in 2010, as he is again in 2017.

Hopefully he doesn't get robbed of MVP again.
At the very top we see that Crosby and Ovechkin really separated themselves....

**
Overall, I think the NHL should look into altering their system of how they assign credit for goals and assists. I doubt this will happen though since the league has been doing it this way forever, and wouldn't be happy with all the chaos created by applying this system retroactively. While it isn't the biggest problem or most pressing issue in hockey today, it still is something worth considering, especially since so many people only look at point totals to evaluate the quality of a player. It's not perfect, but it would be a big step in the right direction.


Interesting but I think we have to keep in mind that this is a single writer's theory and it is not in any way customary to make this adjustment with the actual trophy voters. On top of that, this writer was writing for a Pittsburgh publication writing to a bunch of Penguin/Crosby fans. Salt please.

Actual voters do not apply that formula, but I would still take 87 because of his more complete game.
 

Samranchoi

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Jan 11, 2014
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What about assists and goals obtained during a power play. Should these have less weight than those earned at even strength. And goals and assists earned when the net was empty should be worth a lot less. Goals and assists while short handed should be applied a much higher value. The current system of determining a league MVP appears to be ok. Yes there is controversy in some years but using an adjusted point scoring system to determine point totals does not seem reasonable.
 

SkyRider

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Raw goals and assists don't always reflect the intangibles like leadership or stuff like winning faceoffs, stealing the puck, killing penalties, defensive skills, etc. I rate Jonathan Toews almost as high as Crosby.

I know P.K. Subban is a hot dog but he also raises the level of play with his teammates. Again, can't always measure that in goals and assists. Nashville leading 2 games to 1.
 

maurice93

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I would go with Erik Karlsson and I like to cheap shot the sens whenever I can. The new coach system has really allowed him to play better in the defensive end which was his really big isssie
 

SkyRider

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A goalie is one of the 3 nominees. I'm sure the usual suspects will disagree with me but it is rare for a goalie to win the Hart.
 

shack

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A goalie is one of the 3 nominees. I'm sure the usual suspects will disagree with me but it is rare for a goalie to win the Hart.
Not so rare.

Hasek, Theodore, Plante and probably more, I think.
 

Jubee

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I think Connor McDavid will be better than Sidney Crosby.
In my opinion, no, but it will be close.
You'll also have to factor the concussion time for Crosby and what he really could have done stats wise. Time will let us know, but I think Crosby will go down as the greatest ever, maybe in another 15-20 years someone will come along.
McDavid is great no doubt about it, but my own gut tells me Crosby has the "greatest" mantle for a while yet.

Crosby for MVP this year though, he's had a stellar year, not to take away from McDavid either.
 

kyleb899

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In my opinion, no, but it will be close.
You'll also have to factor the concussion time for Crosby and what he really could have done stats wise. Time will let us know, but I think Crosby will go down as the greatest ever, maybe in another 15-20 years someone will come along.
McDavid is great no doubt about it, but my own gut tells me Crosby has the "greatest" mantle for a while yet.

Crosby for MVP this year though, he's had a stellar year, not to take away from McDavid either.
Crosby career is likely done in couple years or now. Crosby has won anything from a Hockey player dream. How come a player like him get so many concussions ? He will likely finished his career early before the age of 35.
Connor Mcdavid will be way better than him. What up with the 15-20 years someone will come along. Connor McDavid is the next big superstar now.
 

Ref

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I think Gretzky had a much better supporting cast than Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid ever had. Just look at the number of Gretzky's teammates in the hockey HOF. If Lemiux had played on those old Oiler teams, he would have racked up 200 points per season.
I think that exceptional players turn good teammates into much greater teammates. There have been lot's of examples where average to above average players excelled when playing with super-stars.

Gretzky earned a lot of assists as he was able to generate scoring opportunities that other players just did not have that instinct to do.

I think it is a too difficult to say that Gretzky had a better support cast around him that what Lemieux had.
 

ultistar

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Apr 18, 2009
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Neither.

Erik Karlsson is the NHL MVP.
Given that he was not named as one of the top 3 finalists, seems highly unlikely to win the Hart trophy.

In fact he may not even win the Norris as Burns had a big year scoring wise.

However he is having a great playoffs, and if the Sens win he would be the favourite to win the Conn Smythe MVP.
 
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