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Stores are closing at an epic pace (the 'Amazon Effect')

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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The number of employees at all Walmart stores across the GTA cannot be in the hundreds of thousands. The whole of Walmart Canada including those working at head offices and stores is not even at 100,000 employees: http://www.walmartcanada.ca/our-story
I didn't say Walmart in my last post, I said stores (since I presume it's all stores getting hit by people spending their money with Amazon.)

But even look at the number of employees that Amazon employs in Canada vs. The number employed by Walmart. Huge difference. You don't see robots cruising up and down the isles at any store now do you.

Running strictly a warehouse operation is far less expensive than running a conventional store. It's just a big steel box with absolutely no amenities and a few employees. The result is a drastic impact to the local economy. Retail employs a lot of people and supports large numbers of spin off Industries that warehouses just don't.
 

fuji

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So, 4 warehouses in the GTA, assuming that they all employ the same number of people, that's 2,000 people.

And how many people would be employed in the various stores across the GTA?

Hundreds of thousands?

Therein lies the difference.
It's a good topic. Online selling is much more economical and many people are switching to it for that reason. It's also very disruptive and causing a lot of painful change.

It's not going to go away so I'm not sure you'll get very far fighting the future, but I think it's worth having a conversation as a city about how a city should work in a world where half of retailing has moved online. It's also not just Amazon, traditional retailers like Walmart, Costco, HBC, etc., are selling more and more online and even before this other businesses like banks went online and closed many retail locations.

Any thoughts on how we should adapt?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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It's a good topic. Online selling is much more economical and many people are switching to it for that reason. It's also very disruptive and causing a lot of painful change.

It's not going to go away so I'm not sure you'll get very far fighting the future, but I think it's worth having a conversation as a city about how a city should work in a world where half of retailing has moved online. It's also not just Amazon, traditional retailers like Walmart, Costco, HBC, etc., are selling more and more online and even before this other businesses like banks went online and closed many retail locations.

Any thoughts on how we should adapt?
It's going to have to require people to rethink their behaviour first and foremost. There is awareness in the community now about the concept of "buy local" . Also, one need only look at how many people have boycotted shopping at Walmart because of Walmart's business practises. A similar public awareness as to Amazon's business model and how it is devastating the retail landscape needs to happen.

Amazon is seen as somehow being cool or hip by many young people because they are associated with the computer age and something other than traditional brick and mortar stores. But maybe the guys who lay the bricks and mortar should really start thinking about how a company that builds a few warehouses across North America is slowly going to put all the brick layers on unemployment. (And I'm speaking metamorphically about brick layers).

And if public awareness doesn't stem the tide, then perhaps a municipal Levy against every sale Amazon makes in Toronto might help. Amazon makes a shit Load of money selling goods in Toronto, but gives $0.00 back to Toronto. That needs to change.

I was walking down on Queen West a few months ago and my favourite sex shop (Come as you Are) is now gone. A victim of the changing retail landscape. They only market their dildos on line now. I dunno about you, but when I'm buying my sex toys, I like to see what I'm getting. Also, I noticed a large number of empty stores on both Queen St and Bloor West (in Bloor West Village).
 

TeeJay

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Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
You haven't shopped online recently have you? Most online retailers have two day delivery in the US. Amazon has same day delivery for some items if you pay extra.
Yeah thats great
Your 2 day delivery in US hits customs and gets held up a week
Original poster was correct

Plus the obvious issue with Canada Post sucking huge time and then hoping package gets to you unbroken and not stolen
 

Kilgore Trout

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Oct 18, 2008
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Warehouses aren't the job generators that they used to be either.
I've recently read that Canadian Tire has opened a new giant warehouse facility up in Caledon and this place is supposed super automated with advanced robotics and artificial intelligence doing away with many of the jobs a place like this used to employ in the past.

In the past a warehouse like this would need about 1,100 employees to staff it and keep it going.
But this place only needs about 350 people I've heard.
So, all these advances in artificial intelligence are eliminating entry level jobs for people.
Now the government has to support people who used to pay taxes to them every year because they had jobs that are now being done by artificial intelligence.

The Amazon effect is also closing down dozens of major malls in North America that were once vibrant hubs of human activity.
The Woodbine Centre in Rexdale which I go to once a month or so looks so deserted and empty compared to how it used to be 20 years ago.
I've heard they are thinking of demolishing the mall and putting up condos instead since the land is too valuable to waste on a dying retail centre.


 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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when i bought a fm transmitter from Ebay. the seller was in Mainland China it took a few weeks to get to Toronto
Thats because they send almost everything by China Post, they are State-owned and slow as hell
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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It's going to have to require people to rethink their behaviour first and foremost. There is awareness in the community now about the concept of "buy local" . Also, one need only look at how many people have boycotted shopping at Walmart because of Walmart's business practises. A similar public awareness as to Amazon's business model and how it is devastating the retail landscape needs to happen.

Amazon is seen as somehow being cool or hip by many young people because they are associated with the computer age and something other than traditional brick and mortar stores. But maybe the guys who lay the bricks and mortar should really start thinking about how a company that builds a few warehouses across North America is slowly going to put all the brick layers on unemployment. (And I'm speaking metamorphically about brick layers).

And if public awareness doesn't stem the tide, then perhaps a municipal Levy against every sale Amazon makes in Toronto might help. Amazon makes a shit Load of money selling goods in Toronto, but gives $0.00 back to Toronto. That needs to change.

I was walking down on Queen West a few months ago and my favourite sex shop (Come as you Are) is now gone. A victim of the changing retail landscape. They only market their dildos on line now. I dunno about you, but when I'm buying my sex toys, I like to see what I'm getting. Also, I noticed a large number of empty stores on both Queen St and Bloor West (in Bloor West Village).
Boycotting of Amazon, Walmart, etc is silly and totally ineffective. These companies are behemoths and any small dip in sales in one area is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. The reality is that for a lot of people, online shopping beats traditional shopping pretty much every time. Some people are working odd hours and don't have the time or patience to drive to a mall, fight for parking, fight people inside the mall, and then fight to get out of the mall.

Funny that you mentioned that Amazon is only cool or hip by young people because my 75 year old dad quite likes shopping there. He is tired of going to a big box store and fight through traffic and parking just to find that the store doesn't have what he's looking for. Online shopping lets him research what he wants, read detail reviews, and shop on his own time.

This statement makes absolutely no sense: "Amazon makes a shit Load of money selling goods in Toronto, but gives $0.00 back to Toronto. That needs to change." You realize you pay HST on online orders right? And Amazon pays property taxes, utilities, etc on the buildings it has around the GTA as well as payroll taxes.

As for adapting to the online threat, major retailers are already changing their business processes. For example: Best Buy, Loblaws and Wal-Mart have online ordering with in-store pickup. So that saves people time from having to roam around the store. We'll have to see how that changes things.

If anything, online has actually helped some business because they no longer require heavy overhead with a physical store front. You can market and sell your goods online with practically zero overhead.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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The Woodbine Centre in Rexdale which I go to once a month or so looks so deserted and empty compared to how it used to be 20 years ago.
I've heard they are thinking of demolishing the mall and putting up condos instead since the land is too valuable to waste on a dying retail centre.
We're also seeing a trend where the major malls like Square One, Sherway, Eaton Center and Yorkdale are going up-market with stores like Nordstrom's, Saks, Holts, etc. If you're on the low end of the market e.g. Payless Shoes, you're dead in the water especially in a shopping mall.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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So, 4 warehouses in the GTA, assuming that they all employ the same number of people, that's 2,000 people.

And how many people would be employed in the various stores across the GTA?

Hundreds of thousands?

Therein lies the difference.
I hear that FedEx, Purolator, etc, are hiring a shit load of drivers to deliver all those packages--maybe your metaphorical brick layer can do that!

I also see Amazon has a big corporate office in Toronto as well and is hiring lots of people but your bricklayer would need a degree. That seems to be the way of things these days...
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Amazon has a big corporate office in Toronto as well and is hiring lots of people
Great news for you fuji, we can finally get you a job
 

malata

RockStar
Jan 16, 2004
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Paradise by the dashboard light.
It's a good topic. Online selling is much more economical and many people are switching to it for that reason. It's also very disruptive and causing a lot of painful change.

It's not going to go away so I'm not sure you'll get very far fighting the future, but I think it's worth having a conversation as a city about how a city should work in a world where half of retailing has moved online. It's also not just Amazon, traditional retailers like Walmart, Costco, HBC, etc., are selling more and more online and even before this other businesses like banks went online and closed many retail locations.

Any thoughts on how we should adapt?

Big brand name retail stores should start focusing on how they can compete focusing on pricing, customer service, product selections and convenience via ONLINE shopping. In other words, design their website to blow away the competition.

Manufacture domestically, keep costs down...hire cheap labor, hold on, I think I'm starting to sound like TRUMP!

 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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I don't live in Toronto anymore
We're all sad to see you go, fuji :wave:
Because had you stayed, we wouldve had all the answers to:

- Global Warming
- The financial crisis
- Palestinians
- Syrian civil war
- A cure for cancer
- The invasion of the Red Lily beetle in Ontario forests

.....and many other things.

What will we do without you, fuji?? :(
 

malata

RockStar
Jan 16, 2004
3,829
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63
Paradise by the dashboard light.
Joking aside - I think Fuji's commentaries, has been very informative and his devotion glows, in his commitment to helping TERB members.

He be an OG, so give respect.

 

lenny2

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2012
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We're also seeing a trend where the major malls like Square One, Sherway, Eaton Center and Yorkdale are going up-market with stores like Nordstrom's, Saks, Holts, etc. If you're on the low end of the market e.g. Payless Shoes, you're dead in the water especially in a shopping mall.
Downtown Vancouver recently bulldozed an economical Sears & rebuilt it as Nordstrom's. Fortunately, the Army & Navy department stores are still in business.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,012
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We're all sad to see you go, fuji :wave:
Because had you stayed, we wouldve had all the answers to:

- Global Warming
- The financial crisis
- Palestinians
- Syrian civil war
- A cure for cancer
- The invasion of the Red Lily beetle in Ontario forests

.....and many other things.

What will we do without you, fuji?? :(
Without me you'd be far more ignorant than you are.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,293
3,656
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Without me you'd be far more ignorant than you are
And the hilarious thing, you actually believe that :D


You are definitely NOT trolling :applouse:
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,830
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This along with the sharing economy that is progressing is going to hurt retail. I'm older but the internet generation is growing. And they don't want to shop on their feet. And don't want a lot of stuff either.

It's like watching the small but growing trend of tiny houses and small condo living. Same attitude.

I'm waiting for some entrepreneur to take a normal house, tear it down, and get approval for a 4 tiny home co-op in the city. I'm betting some councillors will buy in if it's sold right to them.
 
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