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Today is the 75th anniversary of the Doolittle Raid

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Aardvark154

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Today is the 75th anniversary of the Doolittle Raid on Japan. Although the damage was quite minimal it had two significant results: a moral boost as a U.S. attack on the Japanese Home Islands a little over four months after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and far more significantly in provoking the IJN into attempting to expand the Japanese perimeter to Wake and Midway Islands which led to the Battle of Midway and the loss of four Japanese Fleet Carriers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Raider-101-recalls-attack-75-years-later.html
 
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buttercup

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Amazing that the bombers could be launched off the carrier without the use of catapults. In fact the Hornet did have catapults, but they were rarely used.
 
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dirkd101

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Thanks again Aardy for bringing up another good piece of history.

This raid was heroic on all levels, as most of the airmen knew that getting home afterwards might prove difficult, but they went anyways. It was how this raid was carried out that is the true marvel, taking a land based bomber and flying them off of a carrier deck and then taking the level of difficulty and cranking it up a notch, they had to launch further out than expected. The raid was successful in the fact that it put the Japanese on notice, that they weren't out of striking distance of American forces.
 
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danmand

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Aardvark154

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danmand said:
Rightly so. One of many war crimes.
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So was the German destruction of the Zuider Zee Dike 72 years ago today a War Crime? Was the Bombing of Coventry? What about the actions of the Japanese Army in the Yangtze River Delta of China December 1937 - January 1938?
 
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jcpro

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Aardvark154 said:
So was the German destruction of the Zuider Zee Dike 72 years ago today a War Crime? Was the Bombing of Coventry? What about the actions of the Japanese Army in the Yangtze River Delta of China December 1937 - January 1938?
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I hear people crying about carpet bombing of the German cities and just shake my head. The bloody Germans used terror bombing since the Spanish Civil War. In the Polish campaign the German air force took perverse pleasure in not only terror bombing, but even strafing refugees columns. And they took it to a whole new level in the Russian campaign, of course. The whole argument that the Allies should've behaved differently is just basic ignorance. There was no technology available, at the time, to hit precise targets. Massive bombing raids was the only way to go after the industries and the people employed in them. Next time, cry babies, don't start a war. Same goes for the Japanese.
 
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Aardvark154

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jcpro said:
I hear people crying about carpet bombing of the German cities and just shake my head. The bloody Germans used terror bombing since the Spanish Civil War. In the Polish campaign the German air force took perverse pleasure in not only terror bombing, but even strafing refugees columns. And they took it to a whole new level in the Russian campaign, of course. The whole argument that the Allies should've behaved differently is just basic ignorance. There was no technology available, at the time, to hit precise targets. Massive bombing raids was the only way to go after the industries and the people employed in them. Next time, cry babies, don't start a war. Same goes for the Japanese.
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A Canadian Army Officer when asked the reason the Germans had blown a huge section out of the Zuider Zee Dike 72 years ago today, said "for no reason but shear bloody-mindedness."
 
MrPrezident

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Aardvark154 and malata,

Thank you for posting this. The Doolittle Raiders created a needed psychological turning point for the war effort. They were great and humble heroes. We can never take our freedom for granted. Some people paid a terrible price to save the world from fascism and tyranny. This day is about sacrifice and heroism and not about cheap political slurs from chicken hawks.
 
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SkyRider

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MrPrezident said:
This day is about sacrifice and heroism and not about cheap political slurs from chicken hawks.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Seconds_Over_Tokyo

They took off 12 hours early without fighter support. Of course, if WW II had started on December 7, 2016 with a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor and the raid took place on April 18, 2017, there would be massive protests about potential civilian casualties or even enemy military casualties.
 
Insidious Von

Insidious Von

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Sorry folks, I don't share the same sentiment as the rest of you.

The Doolittle Raid was a strategic mistake that nearly knocked out the US effort before it began. The USS Hornet could have been put to better use in the Battle of the Coral Sea, where the Australian Navy saved the American Carriers from total destruction. Had Imperial Japan won that battle, they would have secured their supply lines to Indonesian oil and rubber. And terror tactics never work, burning Japanese civilians alive only strengthened Japan's resolve to fight to the death. Terror tactics are futile, from Hitler's Slavic Plan to Shock and Awe, the end result is never what the perpetrators intended.

Had the Doolittle Raid never happened, it's possible that the Japanese may have started peace negotiations after Leyte Gulf. Not something to celebrate.

 
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Wild Wiglin Willie

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Insidious Von said:
Sorry folks, I don't share the same sentiment as the rest of you.

The Doolittle Raid was a strategic mistake that nearly knocked out the US effort before it began. The USS Hornet could have been put to better use in the Battle of the Coral Sea, where the Australian Navy saved the American Carriers from total destruction. Had Imperial Japan won that battle, they would have secured their supply lines to Indonesian oil and rubber. And terror tactics never work, burning Japanese civilians alive only strengthened Japan's resolve to fight to the death. Terror tactics are futile, from Hitler's Slavic Plan to Shock and Awe, the end result is never what the perpetrators intended.

Had the Doolittle Raid never happened, it's possible that the Japanese may have started peace negotiations after Leyte Gulf. Not something to celebrate.
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Your statement is a fine example of contrarian argument where you take an opposite position of any discussion in order to appear to know what you are talking about. How can anyone predict the outcome of events especially when the events have already occurred. It is easy to be an armchair general presiding over a table of plastic soldiers.
 
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nottyboi

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Insidious Von said:
Sorry folks, I don't share the same sentiment as the rest of you.

The Doolittle Raid was a strategic mistake that nearly knocked out the US effort before it began. The USS Hornet could have been put to better use in the Battle of the Coral Sea, where the Australian Navy saved the American Carriers from total destruction. Had Imperial Japan won that battle, they would have secured their supply lines to Indonesian oil and rubber. And terror tactics never work, burning Japanese civilians alive only strengthened Japan's resolve to fight to the death. Terror tactics are futile, from Hitler's Slavic Plan to Shock and Awe, the end result is never what the perpetrators intended.

Had the Doolittle Raid never happened, it's possible that the Japanese may have started peace negotiations after Leyte Gulf. Not something to celebrate.

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Come on man, the US sent 2 carrier groups to defend Australia, the Aussies had only 2 vessels. Lets not overstate their role. The Coral Sea was a draw but it was an American strategic victory.
 
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IM469

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SkyRider said:
Of course, liberals criticized the raid for bombing innocent civilians.
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Source or is this just another stereotyping of liberals as anti-war ? It is interesting in that many of the purple heart winners in the congress & senate are democrats while your hero Trump was a coward that faked illness to get out of military service.
 
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Aardvark154

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IM469 said:
Source or is this just another stereotyping of liberals as anti-war ? It is interesting in that many of the purple heart winners in the congress & senate are democrats while your hero Trump was a coward that faked illness to get out of military service.
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Each war is different. Vietnam was an extremely unpopular war and the number of Vietnam era volunteers in the U.S. Congress is slim and the number of Army or Marine Corps volunteers even slimmer.

President Clinton took a deferment, and Vice-President Gore was in a non-combat specialty in the Army National Guard. President Obama was too young, and Vice-President Biden received student draft deferments and after graduating from law school was again deferred due to having had asthma as a teenager. President Trump received student draft deferments and after graduation received a high number in the draft lottery. Vice-President Pence like President Obama was too young.

Just as 1968 was different from 1942, so 1968 is quite different from the post 2001 world.
 
Insidious Von

Insidious Von

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Aardvark154 said:
Each war is different. Vietnam was an extremely unpopular war and the number of Vietnam era volunteers in the U.S. Congress is slim and the number of Army or Marine Corps volunteers even slimmer.
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Not quite Aardie. Vietnam Vets were treating with total disdain when they got home, no money was allotted for the severe issues they had to deal with. I site my own cousin and his lost decade in the 70's as proof of that.

I stand by my previous comment, had the Doolittle Raid not happened there would have been no need for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Total War was a lesson lost on the 20th Century. After the Thirty Years War ended, the European powers came to the agreement that civilians would no longer be targeted. And for the next 200 years they settled their differences on open battlefields away from towns and cities. That changed with the Crimean War concluding with the horrors of WWi and WWII.

And we still haven't learned.
 
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