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Vision Zero - Red Light Cameras, Reduced Speed Limits etc.

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,518
2,375
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I don't really have a problem with red light cameras, safety zones for seniors or the reduction of speed limits on certain roads. But I question if reduced speed limits will actually have an effect on pedestrian fatalities. It will be interesting to see the numbers after they've been in place for a few years.

Following the release of statistics that showed an overwhelming majority of pedestrians killed on Toronto’s streets last year were older adults, the city has announced details of its plans to create “seniors safety zones” at 12 intersections.

According to police data released last week, 37 of the 43 pedestrians killed last year were 55 or older. It was the deadliest year for pedestriansin more than a decade, and also the worst year for older pedestrian deaths over that time.

“We must do more to prevent these deaths and to protect residents across the city. The number of people killed on our roads, pedestrians, every year, should be zero,” said Mayor John Tory at a Tuesday morning at press conference at the intersection of Bloor St. W. and Dundas St. W.

The intersection will be the first location where the city establishes a seniors zone, which was one of the measures approved by council last July as part of the new $80-million road safety plan.

Public works chair Councillor Jaye Robinson said the locations were chosen based on where city data shows there have been a high number of seniors involved in traffic collisions, and there is a concentrated population of older residents.

Dundas and Bloor is close to medical offices and seniors housing, and according to Robinson, four pedestrians have been killed and five more seriously injured at the intersection in the past six years, all of them older adults.

The package of safety measures coming to Dundas and Bloor include speed limits reduced to 40 km/h from 50 km/h, eight seniors safety signs warning drivers to slow down, four “watch your speed signs,” enhanced pavement markings, and longer pedestrian crossing times. Red light cameras are also being installed.

The other zones will get a similar package of improvements. Robinson said the goal is to implement all 12 in the first quarter of this year.


Kasia Briegmann-Samson, a co-founder of Friends and Families for Safe Streets, said she was encouraged by the action the city has taken since council approved the road safety plan last summer. But said the measures like the seniors zones need to be expanded. She noted that seniors live in communities across the city, not just at 12 locations.

“The whole city should be seniors safety zone, should be a community zone, should be a kid zone, should be a family zone,” she said.

“There’s going to be pockets that are left out. There’s going to be neighbourhoods that don’t have resources to advocate for themselves that are going to be left out, unless we include the whole city. So that eventually needs to happen.”

In response to reporters’ questions, Robinson (Ward 25 Don Valley West) stressed that the city’s road safety plan is “data-driven.”

“We want to do things in a strategic way,” she said. “The strategy looks at the data.”

Robinson also announced on Tuesday the creation of a new website for the road safety plan, which will allow residents to track its progress and view data on traffic collisions.

The road safety plan, which is the city’s first such strategy, will be executed over five years.

In addition to the seniors safety zones, other measures the city plans for 2017 include erecting red light cameras at 76 new locations, installing accessible pedestrian signals at 20 intersections, making geometric safety improvements at 13 locations, performing 14 road safety audits, speed reductions on 32 corridors, and expanding the “watch your speed” program.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/01/10/city-to-create-seniors-safety-zones-to-protect-older-pedestrians.html
New Locations of Red Light Cameras:

Kennedy Road & Highway 401 East Kennedy Road Off Ramp / William Kitchen Road
University Avenue & Richmond Street West
Adelaide Street East & Parliament Street
University Avenue & Adelaide Street West
Dixon Road & Martin Grove Road
University Avenue & Queen Street West
Keele Street & Wilson Avenue
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Spadina Avenue / Lower Spadina Avenue
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Park Lawn Road / Marine Parade Drive
Sheppard Avenue East & Bayview Avenue
Steeles Avenue West & Weston Road
Lawrence Avenue East & Greencedar Circuit / Greenbrae Circuit
Finch Avenue East & Birchmount Road
Finch Avenue West & Sentinel Road
Bloor Street West & The East Mall
Albion Road & Finch Avenue West
Wilson Avenue & Jane Street
Warden Avenue & McNicoll Avenue
Finch Avenue West & Martin Grove Road
Steeles Avenue West & Keele Street
University Avenue & Wellington Street West
Albion Road & Kipling Avenue
King Street West & York Street
Finch Avenue East & Highway 404 North Finch Avenue East Off Ramp / Gordon Baker Road
Jarvis Street & Isabella Street
Danforth Road & Brimley Road
Dundas Street East & River Street
McCowan Road & McNicoll Avenue
St. Clair Avenue West & Gunns Road / Old Stock Yards Road
Spadina Avenue & King Street West
Sheppard Avenue East & McCowan Road
King Street East & Parliament Street
Rexdale Boulevard & Martin Grove Road
The Queensway & The East Mall
St. Clair Avenue West & Spadina Road
Dufferin Street & Finch Avenue West
Islington Avenue & Evans Avenue
Eglinton Avenue West & Martin Grove Road
Finch Avenue East & Brimley Road
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Jameson Avenue
Eglinton Avenue East & Danforth Road
Neilson Road & McLevin Avenue
Simcoe Street & Wellington Street West
Jane Street & Strong Court / York Gate Boulevard
Ellesmere Road & Bellamy Road
Lawrence Avenue East & Kennedy Road
Warden Avenue & Comstock Road
Sheppard Avenue East & Malvern Street / Progress Avenue
Rexdale Boulevard & Kipling Avenue
Weston Road & Lawrence Avenue West
Islington Avenue & Albion Road
Bathurst Street & Dupont Street
Yonge Street & Steeles Avenue
St. Clair Avenue West & Runnymede Road
Warden Avenue & Ashtonbee Road
Finch Avenue West & Signet Drive / Arrow Road
Keele Street & Lawrence Avenue West
Birchmount Road & McNicoll Avenue
Finch Avenue East & Middlefield Road
Dufferin Street & Eglinton Avenue West
Spadina Ave. & Bremner Boulevard / Fort York Boulevard
The Queensway & Royal York Road
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Strachan Avenue
Lawrence Avenue East & Markham Road
Jane Street & Falstaff Avenue
Avenue Road & Lawrence Avenue West
Highway 27 & Finch Avenue West
Pharmacy Avenue & McNicoll Avenue
Markham Road & Progress Avenue
Markham Road & Sheppard Avenue East
Don Mills Road & Van Horne Avenue
Sheppard Avenue East & Morningside Avenue
Morningside Avenue & Milner Avenue
Finch Avenue West & Norfinch Drive / Oakdale Road
Richmond Street East & Parliament Street
Lake Shore Boulevard West & York Street
The Queensway & The West Mall
Bathurst Street & Davenport Road
Eglinton Avenue East & Victoria Park Avenue

Speed Limit Reductions:

Reduced from 70km/h to 60 km/h:

Eglinton Ave W from Etobicoke Creek to Renforth Drive

Reduced from 60km/h to 50 km/h:

Jane Street from Lambton Avenue to Pinehill Crescent
Jane Street from Wilson Avenue to Steeles Ave West
Yonge Street from Donwoods Drive to Franklin Avenue
Bayview Avenue from Post Road to Cummer Avenue
Bayview Avenue from River Street to Pottery Road
Mount Pleasant Avenue from Crescent Road to Inglewood Drive
Progress Avenue from Kennedy Road to Brimley Road
Progress Avenue from Grangeway Ave to Markham Road
Midland Avenue from Lawrence Avenue East to Sheppard Avenue East
Midland Avenue from Finch Avenue East to Steeles Avenue East
Dixon Road from Highway 427 to Royal York Road
Belfield Road from Highway 27 to Kipling Avenue
The East Mall from West Deane Park Drive to Eglinton Avenue West
Bellamy Road North from Grace Street to Burnview Crescent
Bellamy Road North from Lawrence Avenue East to Progress Avenue

Reduced from 50km/h to 40 km/h:

Bay Street from Queens Quay West to Bloor Street West
Queen Street East/Queen Street West from Roncesvalles Avenue to Parliament Street
Queen Street East from River Street to Coxwell Avenue
Spadina Avenue/Spadina Road from Queens Quay West to Davenport Road
King Street West from Strachan Avenue to Queen Street East
College St/Carlton Street from Dufferin Street to Parliament Street
Gerrard Street East from Broadview Avenue to Coxwell Avenue
Gerrard Street East from Main Street to Clonmore Drive
University Avenue from Front Street West to Gerrard Street West
Church Street from Conger Coal Lane to Davenport Road
Jarvis Street/Ted Rogers Way from Queens Quay East to Bloor Street East
York Street from Queens Quay West to Queen Street West
Front Street West/Front Street East from Bathurst Street to 340m East of Cherry Street
Pape Avenue from Danforth Avenue to Donlands Avenue
Main Street from 120m North of Danforth Avenue to Gerrard Street
Rogers Road from Weston Road to Old Weston Road
 

BAMan 55

Senior Member
Oct 5, 2005
1,532
74
48
Yep, this will sure go a long ways to reducing traffic congestion!! Result will be just the opposite. Long waits at intersections which have no right hand turns on red (especially during peak periods when pedestrians clog up intersections by ignoring the flashing "do not walk" signal and the only time a right turn can be made is after the light turns red when 2/3 vehicles can squeeze through), and slowing the traffic flow on large sections of major streets.
 

M4F

New member
Jan 24, 2004
202
0
0
WNY
The real reason for New York City's traffic nightmare:

"City officials have intentionally ground Midtown to a halt with the hidden purpose of making drivers so miserable that they leave their cars at home
and turn to mass transit or bicycles, high-level sources told The Post.

Today’s gridlock is the result of an effort by the Bloomberg and de Blasio administrations over more than a decade of redesigning streets..."

“The traffic is being engineered,” a former top NYPD official told The Post, explaining a long-term plan that began under Mayor Mike Bloomberg and hasn’t slowed with Mayor de Blasio.

“The city streets are being engineered to create traffic congestion, to slow traffic down, to favor bikers and pedestrians,” the former official said.

“There’s a reduction in capacity through the introduction of bike lanes and streets and lanes being closed down.”


The concerted effort includes:

Pedestrian plazas that have cut off entire lanes of traffic and created bottlenecks.
Protected bike lanes on major avenues that eat up a traffic lane and force trucks to double park.
Cross streets where turns are forbidden on nearly all avenues.
Intersections where drivers must wait for green arrows to turn onto avenues.
Ordering traffic agents to focus more on writing tickets and less on directing traffic.


The goal of the jammed traffic is to shift as many drivers as possible to public transit or bicycles.

An added benefit was supposed to be safer streets, but city officials have said
that while 45,000 fewer cars and trucks now come into Midtown daily than in 2010, pedestrian deaths are on the uptick this year.

...Green Light includes pedestrian plazas and protected bike lanes that are still being completed under de Blasio,
who has further snarled traffic with reduced speed limits, redesigned intersections and aggressive summons-writing as part of his Vision Zero initiative."

http://nypost.com/2016/12/02/new-york-citys-traffic-is-intentionally-horrible/
 

BAMan 55

Senior Member
Oct 5, 2005
1,532
74
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Substitute Toronto for NYC in immediate prior post and you would not be far off.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,591
1,194
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Fucking no! Why??? This is ridiculous!

I have zero problems with red light cameras. But the other items are just nonsense. All it will do is cause more congestion, more frustration, more confusion, and more deaths.

Drivers will always be the scapegoat, won't they? Can we get some common sense here, please?
 

kid_kuh

Member
Aug 31, 2010
442
0
16
GTA
It all comes back to the Almighty 'dollar' and public perception. It's all politics. Why aren't there more education for pedestrians. I guess the city's logic is if they lower it from 70 to 60; drivers will still go 70 km/h instead of 80 -90 km/hr they normally would have.

In regards to Red light camera's do they work for left turns? I agree with these camera placements; too many distracted drivers.

All in all trying something is better than doing nothing.
 

Galseigin

Banned
Dec 10, 2014
2,119
1
0
I don't really have a problem with red light cameras, safety zones for seniors or the reduction of speed limits on certain roads. But I question if reduced speed limits will actually have an effect on pedestrian fatalities. It will be interesting to see the numbers after they've been in place for a few years.



New Locations of Red Light Cameras:

Kennedy Road & Highway 401 East Kennedy Road Off Ramp / William Kitchen Road
University Avenue & Richmond Street West
Adelaide Street East & Parliament Street
University Avenue & Adelaide Street West
Dixon Road & Martin Grove Road
University Avenue & Queen Street West
Keele Street & Wilson Avenue
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Spadina Avenue / Lower Spadina Avenue
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Park Lawn Road / Marine Parade Drive
Sheppard Avenue East & Bayview Avenue
Steeles Avenue West & Weston Road
Lawrence Avenue East & Greencedar Circuit / Greenbrae Circuit
Finch Avenue East & Birchmount Road
Finch Avenue West & Sentinel Road
Bloor Street West & The East Mall
Albion Road & Finch Avenue West
Wilson Avenue & Jane Street
Warden Avenue & McNicoll Avenue
Finch Avenue West & Martin Grove Road
Steeles Avenue West & Keele Street
University Avenue & Wellington Street West
Albion Road & Kipling Avenue
King Street West & York Street
Finch Avenue East & Highway 404 North Finch Avenue East Off Ramp / Gordon Baker Road
Jarvis Street & Isabella Street
Danforth Road & Brimley Road
Dundas Street East & River Street
McCowan Road & McNicoll Avenue
St. Clair Avenue West & Gunns Road / Old Stock Yards Road
Spadina Avenue & King Street West
Sheppard Avenue East & McCowan Road
King Street East & Parliament Street
Rexdale Boulevard & Martin Grove Road
The Queensway & The East Mall
St. Clair Avenue West & Spadina Road
Dufferin Street & Finch Avenue West
Islington Avenue & Evans Avenue
Eglinton Avenue West & Martin Grove Road
Finch Avenue East & Brimley Road
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Jameson Avenue
Eglinton Avenue East & Danforth Road
Neilson Road & McLevin Avenue
Simcoe Street & Wellington Street West
Jane Street & Strong Court / York Gate Boulevard
Ellesmere Road & Bellamy Road
Lawrence Avenue East & Kennedy Road
Warden Avenue & Comstock Road
Sheppard Avenue East & Malvern Street / Progress Avenue
Rexdale Boulevard & Kipling Avenue
Weston Road & Lawrence Avenue West
Islington Avenue & Albion Road
Bathurst Street & Dupont Street
Yonge Street & Steeles Avenue
St. Clair Avenue West & Runnymede Road
Warden Avenue & Ashtonbee Road
Finch Avenue West & Signet Drive / Arrow Road
Keele Street & Lawrence Avenue West
Birchmount Road & McNicoll Avenue
Finch Avenue East & Middlefield Road
Dufferin Street & Eglinton Avenue West
Spadina Ave. & Bremner Boulevard / Fort York Boulevard
The Queensway & Royal York Road
Lake Shore Boulevard West & Strachan Avenue
Lawrence Avenue East & Markham Road
Jane Street & Falstaff Avenue
Avenue Road & Lawrence Avenue West
Highway 27 & Finch Avenue West
Pharmacy Avenue & McNicoll Avenue
Looks like Finch has more cameras than other streets.....
 

sempel

Banned
Feb 23, 2017
3,649
25
0
I think red light cameras pop up because someone has either been killed or injured (or somebody has complained). How else to explain 6-7 on a single road whereas similar roads in size and traffic don't? I also don't see them doing anything more than simply being a revenue generator. I think most of us still run yellows when we shouldn't and are more cautious at red-light camera intersections - by careful I mean avoid getting caught by making sure we make the light or stop. I will say this - I've been going along merrily, the light starts to change, and I've had to come to a screeching halt for fear of the red-light camera - can be pretty dangerous too.

I was driving tonight and FINALLY saw a runner with glow in the dark clothing so I saw them a mile away. Meanwhile how many morons walk/jog in unlit areas in dark clothing? Doesn't matter what speed we are doing - if you can't see someone you can easily hit them. I also think many pedestrians walk about distracted (on or looking at phone) and many don't give a shit about traffic lights/signals. The other week I saw stupid teens running across a busy road maybe 15m away from the intersection - worse a stupid driver chose to stop and let the rest of the group pass.
 

angrymime666

Well-known member
May 8, 2008
973
537
93
thats right keep shoveling money into programs that will more than likely waste money, congest the streets, and be a cash grab.

accidents will always happen. drivers will be distracted. drivers will speed. its sucks that people are dying but people die all the time. by all means keep the people who are hurting/killing people legally accountable; however, dont take my money to give the appearance of something that will more then likely will not stop/change peoples behavior. this is just pandering to a demographic for re-election votes.
 

t.o.leafs.fan

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2006
1,360
155
63
Nothing will improve traffic congestion but getting more and more cars off the road. This is done by making it more expensive and inconvenient to drive. This has been where things were headed for a long time. Planning cities around cars is no longer en vogue in big cities.
 

sempel

Banned
Feb 23, 2017
3,649
25
0
Nothing will improve traffic congestion but getting more and more cars off the road. This is done by making it more expensive and inconvenient to drive. This has been where things were headed for a long time. Planning cities around cars is no longer en vogue in big cities.
Congestion is not necessarily about volume but also the flow. Have seen many cars on the road at various times, some going with amazing flow, other times stagnant. The big issues are slow drivers, construction, or accidents that reduce lanes and create blockages, people driving too slow for the conditions (no need to go 40km/h in most snow conditions), and badly coordinated lights. I have driven on the same street at different times with no traffic. Depending on the lights sequences, can take 5 min or 20min.
 

Mr Deeds

Muff Diver Extraordinaire
Mar 10, 2013
5,981
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Here
Thats alot of freaking cameras who pays for those and will they be a source of revenue for the city
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,591
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It all comes back to the Almighty 'dollar' and public perception. It's all politics. Why aren't there more education for pedestrians.
Comes from the mentality of "never blaming the victim". Common sense says don't walk alone down a notorious back alley at 2am in the morning, but if someone does it and something happens to them you'll be eviscerated if you say "well, they shouldn't have been there".
Same goes for pedestrians. The mindset is that it's never their fault. Common sense says that everyone on the road should be properly educated and be aware at all times of dangerous situations. But if something happens and you say "well, they shouldn't have stepped out on the road"...you will be eviscerated.

I understand why some people lay all the responsibility on the people driving the 2-tonne hunk of metal. But if your goal is to have safe roads, it's not practical to focus solely on drivers. But that's the mindset anyway.
 

hamermill

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2001
4,352
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In a place far, far away
As a driver I am constantly scanning the roadway, sidewalks for people wanting to kill themselves.

As a pedestrian im constantly scanning the roadway for drivers wanting to kill me and not looking at my phone.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
63
The Keebler Factory
Unfortunately part of the growing need for red light cameras is the growing incidence of people running yellows and reds. It's never been worse, to the point it's now commonly accepted that entering on yellow is fine.
 

sempel

Banned
Feb 23, 2017
3,649
25
0
Comes from the mentality of "never blaming the victim". Common sense says don't walk alone down a notorious back alley at 2am in the morning, but if someone does it and something happens to them you'll be eviscerated if you say "well, they shouldn't have been there".
Same goes for pedestrians. The mindset is that it's never their fault. Common sense says that everyone on the road should be properly educated and be aware at all times of dangerous situations. But if something happens and you say "well, they shouldn't have stepped out on the road"...you will be eviscerated.

I understand why some people lay all the responsibility on the people driving the 2-tonne hunk of metal. But if your goal is to have safe roads, it's not practical to focus solely on drivers. But that's the mindset anyway.
Could not agree with you more. If I am driving down a dark lit roadway and hit a runner wearing all black (for the life of me I barely see them and it's because I detect the movement), I'd be at fault. How stupid is he/she to not wear anything that makes them visible?

There's definitely a few things that cannot be planned. If someone runs out in front of your car, nothing you can do to be prepared for that. Same thing if you are a pedestrian and doing what you are supposed to and somebody jumps the curb or is drunk. These are random things that people cannot prepare for. But plenty of steps people can take, as both drivers and pedestrians, to avoid certain situations.

Unfortunately part of the growing need for red light cameras is the growing incidence of people running yellows and reds. It's never been worse, to the point it's now commonly accepted that entering on yellow is fine.
It's commonly accepted because it's still legal. And forgive me for pointing this out, but red light cameras don't really prevent people from running yellows. I personally speed up to ensure I make the yellow light though versus running the red and getting fined and have no doubt that others do the same.

The key to any driving is anticipation and awareness. I won't lie and say I follow every rule to the tee - I don't and do so without regret. But when I roll a stop at a red to make a right turn, I do so after scanning for pedestrians and if I can't see, I stop. There are others who do many things automatically which could be disastrous in certain circumstances.

As a driver I am constantly scanning the roadway, sidewalks for people wanting to kill themselves.

As a pedestrian im constantly scanning the roadway for drivers wanting to kill me and not looking at my phone.
Lol

Combining this with the first point about responsibility, every pedestrian should assume they could be killed and do what is necessary to avoid this (cross only at intersections when they are supposed to, wear bright clothing at night, etc.). Drivers should assume pedestrians are ignorant and anticipate their stupidity and act appropriately (drive slowly and expect them to cross when they shouldn't, scan intersections, etc.).
 

The LoLRus

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2009
2,270
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Some city worker told me they've shortened the amber lights by half a second at all these intersections as well. This is a clear money grab
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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38



[Entering an intersection on an amber is] commonly accepted because it's still legal. And forgive me for pointing this out, but red light cameras don't really prevent people from running yellows. I personally speed up to ensure I make the yellow light though versus running the red and getting fined and have no doubt that others do the same
.…
It is not legal according to the Highway Traffic Act 144(15):
Amber light
(15) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular amber indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle if he or she can do so safely, otherwise he or she may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (15). [my emphasis]

You know your vehicle and it's stopping distance at speed. Unless you can truthfully assert you could not stop safely, you are breaking the law by proceeding on an amber. Of course, we realize the Crown's burden of proof makes a conviction difficult, but even if you get away without penalty, you shouldn't be deceiving yourself.

And it might be wise to think about how you'd argue speeding up to make it through could possibly be seen as as 'proceeding with caution', in the event there's a cop responding to 'complaints from the neighbourhood'.
 
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Toronto Escorts