The 2017 Blue Jay season thread

Ref · Sep 23, 2017

Phil C. McNasty said:
I think JB would make a good batting coach

Strange this is, not a lot of great stars make good coaches or coach at all. There are exceptions (Mollitor comes to mind), but generally they seem to be average to run of the mill ex ball players.

Maybe it is because those average to below average guys had to "learn" the game and work/communicate with a lot of people to even have a chance to make it in the game. Another point is that to be a coach you need to start at the bottom and work your way up. Sometimes the "stars" cannot accept that role and do not have the patience or right attitude to learn how to manage, communicate and lead. They have more often than not been the best of their peers and have not had to work their way up like colleagues who did not have that natural talent.

black booty lover · Sep 23, 2017

Ref said:
Strange this is, not a lot of great stars make good coaches or coach at all. There are exceptions (Mollitor comes to mind), but generally they seem to be average to run of the mill ex ball players.

Maybe it is because those average to below average guys had to "learn" the game and work/communicate with a lot of people to even have a chance to make it in the game. Another point is that to be a coach you need to start at the bottom and work your way up. Sometimes the "stars" cannot accept that role and do not have the patience or right attitude to learn how to manage, communicate and lead. They have more often than not been the best of their peers and have not had to work their way up like colleagues who did not have that natural talent.

Many times the "stars" have more than enough money to enjoy life instead of becoming a hitting coach or manager. Run of the mill players need the money.

Dawgger · Sep 23, 2017

black booty lover said:
Many times the "stars" have more than enough money to enjoy life instead of becoming a hitting coach or manager. Run of the mill players need the money.

Think you have to a passion for it more so than a need for money

shack · Sep 23, 2017

Ref said:
Strange this is, not a lot of great stars make good coaches or coach at all. There are exceptions (Mollitor comes to mind), but generally they seem to be average to run of the mill ex ball players.

Maybe it is because those average to below average guys had to "learn" the game and work/communicate with a lot of people to even have a chance to make it in the game. Another point is that to be a coach you need to start at the bottom and work your way up. Sometimes the "stars" cannot accept that role and do not have the patience or right attitude to learn how to manage, communicate and lead. They have more often than not been the best of their peers and have not had to work their way up like colleagues who did not have that natural talent.

I agree with all you say.

However JB may be an exception. He was a lousy hitter and had to become an avid student of the game and develop techniques that would work for him. It was not all just "natural" for him.

smitherz · Sep 23, 2017

gww said:
Top 5 payrolls for 2017:
1 Los Angeles Dodgers $242,065,828
2 New York Yankees $201,539,699
3 Boston Red Sox $199,805,178
4 Detroit Tigers $199,750,600
5 Toronto Blue Jays $177,795,368

The difference between Toronto and Boston is less than David Price's contract. Seems even with Price, Boston figured out how to spend the $$ more effectivly.

Tampa is well under $100 mil and they seem to compete in the AL East - well at least most years.

Boston has probably the best amateur scouting staff in baseball.

They’re getting a ton of value out of their young core. All of them making rookie or low arbitration salaries
A good portion of their high payroll is going to bad contracts on players not contributing or even with the team anymore.
Price, Hanley Ramirez, Sandoval, Rusney Castillo , Allen Craig and a few others .
They’re paying Adrian Gonzalez $22million next year to play for the Dodgers, and still owe Manny Ramirez deferred salary of around $10m over the next few seasons.

It’s easier to swallow bad deals when you have impact players ready to step in.
The Jays have to wait maybe 2 more years for Vlad Jr , Warmoth and Bichette so we have to stick with our declining vets in the meantime.

There’s some good news for Jays fans, the guy in charge of acquiring/developing many of those young impact players for Boston now works for Toronto as Shapiro’s VP ... former RedSox GM Ben Cherington - who was also responsible for luring John Farrell away from the Jays.

Keebler Elf · Sep 23, 2017

shack said:
As proof of how out of touch you are in regard to the respect he deserves

This made me laugh. I saw the tepid applause for him yesterday. The 10% of the crowd that stood and applauded for him at his at bats.

No idea why you have your head so far up his ass but he sucks this year and he sucked last year. Most fans have moved on and are eagerly awaiting whoever his replacement will be.

I'm sure he will get a standing ovation for his last game. It's the polite thing to do. And I'll be happy when it signifies it's over and we can move on with a good right fielder.

As an aside, I think he lost his mojo when Rougned Odor clocked him and utterly humiliated him on national TV (not to mention the interweb). The myth was shattered.

gcostanza · Sep 23, 2017

smitherz said:
They’re paying Adrian Gonzalez $22million next year to play for the Dodgers...

Can you show a link for this?
Any place I look indicates the Dodgers are paying Gonzalez's salary.

Perry Mason · Sep 23, 2017

So JB is a flawed hero... and his principal flaw was/is vainglory, as Cathal Kelly wrote yesterday.

Show me a hero that is not flawed and I will show you a great work of fiction.

But it is that same belief in himself that drove him from being a journeyman player to an All Star.

He brought a lot of color and controversy to the BJ's and I really like him for that... it's a game, folks!

He lost it very quick, I agree. I am sure he did not do it on purpose! I definitely would stand up and cheer for him. :clap2:

Perry

smitherz · Sep 23, 2017

gcostanza said:
Can you show a link for this?
Any place I look indicates the Dodgers are paying Gonzalez's salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/yearly/payroll/

Table at the bottom shows their retained salaries for each year from ‘17 to ‘21

Phil C. McNasty · Sep 23, 2017

Ref said:
Strange this is, not a lot of great stars make good coaches or coach at all. There are exceptions (Mollitor comes to mind), but generally they seem to be average to run of the mill ex ball players

To some extent thats true (Mourinho comes to mind, he was just a translator and never played much professionally), but there are exceptions to that. Frank Robinson for example

gcostanza · Sep 23, 2017

smitherz said:
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/yearly/payroll/

Table at the bottom shows their retained salaries for each year from ‘17 to ‘21

Thanks!

Phil C. McNasty · Sep 23, 2017

What a trade Hernandez is gonna be!!!!!!!!!!

We basically gave up a washed up pitcher in a losing season

Phil C. McNasty · Sep 23, 2017

So if Biagini wins today vs. Yankees, it appears he has 1 good game followed by 1 bad game, would that make him viable as a 5th starter (kinda like Todd Sottlemyre) since a 5th starter only needs to be around .500??

smitherz · Sep 23, 2017

Phil C. McNasty said:
What a trade Hernandez is gonna be!!!!!!!!!!

We basically gave up a washed up pitcher in a losing season

Jays also saved a couple million in salary.

Scary thing is the Astros deemed him expendable, since they have 3 other outfield prospects rated even higher.

Zoot Allures · Sep 23, 2017

smitherz said:
Jays also saved a couple million in salary.

Scary thing is the Astros deemed him expendable, since they have 3 other outfield prospects rated even higher.

I say out him in long relief as he is best there him there and we need him there . The Jays can pick up a fifth starter easily enough.

Phil C. McNasty · Sep 23, 2017

Zoot Allures said:
I say out him in long relief as he is best there him there and we need him there . The Jays can pick up a fifth starter easily enough

Huh??? Who are you talking about??

black booty lover · Sep 23, 2017

Dawgger said:
Think you have to a passion for it more so than a need for money

Why?? lol

If you need money, it's still a great gig.

black booty lover · Sep 23, 2017

smitherz said:
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/yearly/payroll/

Table at the bottom shows their retained salaries for each year from ‘17 to ‘21

Kind of strange cause if you go to the Dogers page it shows them paying his salary next year.

gww · Sep 24, 2017

black booty lover said:
Kind of strange cause if you go to the Dogers page it shows them paying his salary next year.

I don't believe it is correct either. Jays page says they are paying Upton 16mil. That is not what was reported in the trade or even since.

Pitsbugh does not show Bonilla being paid $1mil for the 15-20 years. Peanuts but still missing.

Dawgger · Sep 24, 2017

black booty lover said:
Kind of strange cause if you go to the Dogers page it shows them paying his salary next year.

gww said:
I don't believe it is correct either. Jays page says they are paying Upton 16mil. That is not what was reported in the trade or even since.

Pitsbugh does not show Bonilla being paid $1mil for the 15-20 years. Peanuts but still missing.

Re A. Gonzales: When I look at both the Dodgers and Red Sox I see the Sox paying $857,142.00 this season and next. Dodgers pay the balance.

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