Reverie
Toronto Escorts

Legals, at least according to me

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prodigal

This was a PM originally in response to Siobhan's last post in her thread, where she says incalls are illegal. Lots of misunderstandings out there, here's my two cents. Actually, at my hourly rate it's more like my $100.

Hi Siobhan.

I haven't gotten round to seeing you yet, so you don't know me. I am a long-time member of this board but generally only post when I have something intelligent to say, and rarely for review/contact purposes.

Just wanted to comment on your post re: incalls. I am a founding partner in a good-size GTA law firm, though not a criminal lawyer, and I can tell you that outcalls are as illegal as incalls. There are more offences dealing with incalls and it is more risky for the CLIENT to do an incall since they can be charged with being in a common bawdy house (love our 17-th century mentality), and the lady can be charged with keeping a common bawdy house.

What is illegal in Canada is communicating for the purposes of prostitution. Emails discussing services and phone calls discussing same are obvious examples of this. TERB, for example, is likely a "public place", having a web site is communicating for the purposes of prostitution etc. However the fact is that even a perfectly innocent phone call followed by any sort of money changing hands and then discussion or performance of favours makes it clear that the original communication was for the purposes of prostitution.

Every call by a lady, in or out, is illegal and every client, whether in or out, also commits an offence. The differences are semantic and relate to what offence is actually on the piece of paper.

The important thing is that LE DOES NOT CARE about responsible people, both ladies and clients, pursuing their wants and needs. They care about pimping, as they should, about underage girls and about drugs and unsafe behaviour and associated crime.

It's a mistake to think that incalls are any more illegal than outcalls, or that outcalls are safe. We are safe in Canada because LE does not care, and the specific wording of our Criminal Code makes it just slightly more awkward to lay charges in the case of undercovers posing as streetwalkers - that's all.
 
A

ashley

What are the laws about a independant massage person doing them from there own home?
 
P

prodigal

scaring

Actually, I was trying to tell people NOT to be scared, of in or outcalls. If you're responsible, the police couldn't care less, and that's the point.

And Lisa, yes you caught me, I got my law degree from a mail-order catalogue, what the hell do I know.

Enough not to get into a flame war with a lay person about legal issues - that's REALLY going to be a good use of my time.

As you pointed out, at least there's no charge.
 
prodigal said:
Just wanted to comment on your post re: incalls. I am a founding partner in a good-size GTA law firm, though not a criminal lawyer, and I can tell you that outcalls are as illegal as incalls.

What is illegal in Canada is communicating for the purposes of prostitution. Emails discussing services and phone calls discussing same are obvious examples of this. TERB, for example, is likely a "public place", having a web site is communicating for the purposes of prostitution etc. However the fact is that even a perfectly innocent phone call followed by any sort of money changing hands and then discussion or performance of favours makes it clear that the original communication was for the purposes of prostitution.

[/B]
If you really are a lawyer, I think you should be disbarred for incompetence.

You seem to sort of know, but you did not put it clearly, that the law refers to "communicating in a public place" for the purpose of prostitution.

A telephone conversation does not occur in a public place. The police need a warrent to tap a phone line. That is an overwhelming argument that a telephone conversation is not public.

Email is not quite as clear cut. A warrent is needed for the police to look at what is on your computer. But there are usually two servers operated by ISP's that may have a copy of the email, not to mention backups. The ISP's would likely give the police what they want without a warrent. But if a judge ruled that that made it public, I would have a lot of trouble with that judge.

A competent lawyer would argue that since prostitution is legal, there must be *some* legal way for that to occur. If a single woman, providing outcalls, and discussing details only in the privacy of the telephone and emails, is not operating within the law, then the court should be asked how can a legal activity be conducted without breaking the law.
 

rr_bill

New member
Mar 18, 2002
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Waytoofar N. Ont.
Re: Re: Legals, at least according to me

Paul Waters said:

........................... A competent lawyer would argue that since prostitution is legal, there must be *some* legal way for that to occur. If a single woman, providing outcalls, and discussing details only in the privacy of the telephone and emails, is not operating within the law, then the court should be asked how can a legal activity be conducted without breaking the law.
That is an very interesting spin that you have thought of.

You've captured in words what I too have wondered about but never was able to put it quite so well.

The way LE sometimes goes about their investigations related to this business I am certain that they are directed by some puritanical dodo and not by what the law itself requires. It is they who are obliged to bend the laws, almost to the the limit, to be able to get what they claim are "the goods", on those charged.
 

spear

New member
Feb 4, 2002
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Well, just so happens that I am a criminal lawyer. Nothing wrong with incalls per se except they might lead to a charge of keeping a common bawdy house for example. As you all know prostitution is not an offence. It never has been in Canada. It is the activities surrounding it that constitute offences, i.e. living ON(not off) the avails, procuring and solicitation, to name a few. The offence that is most likely to be of moment to the folks that review this board is solicitation. In simple terms what that means is no 'importuning'. In more simple terms is that they don't want is somebody asking on the street, "Would you like a date honey." In my view you can with impunity make whatever financial arrangements over the phone or with an email (because there is a reasonable expectation of privacy) if you are acting alone. There is no "importuning", and if the SP is on her own and not with an agency (ala the Barrie girls for example) and she does an outcall to a residence or a hotel ( but not the same little cheezy motel room multiple times in the same day or week) then she and you are without concern.
I usually charge a lot for info like that.lol
 
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