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National Guard

lenharper

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Jan 15, 2004
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While it is clear to everyone who reads this forum that the Canadian military is underfunded and unprepared it was kinda sad watching the Passionate Eye documentary last night that cronicled the journey of a group of Alabama State guardsmen on their way to Iraq. They were ill-equipped, out of shape and overage. And once they got there none of thier shit worked.

I wonder if the average American knows exactly who they are sending off to foriegn wars -- I think we imagine they are highly trained killers ala the guys in "full metal jacket" and while I'm sure some of them are a large majority are simple poor white trash who have absolutely no other options.

It was sad and pitiable and sure the US is "winning" on some level a lot of poor yokels are paying a large price.
 

someone

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Jun 7, 2003
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lenharper said:
While it is clear to everyone who reads this forum that the Canadian military is underfunded and unprepared it was kinda sad watching the Passionate Eye documentary last night that cronicled the journey of a group of Alabama State guardsmen on their way to Iraq. They were ill-equipped, out of shape and overage. And once they got there none of thier shit worked.

I wonder if the average American knows exactly who they are sending off to foriegn wars -- I think we imagine they are highly trained killers ala the guys in "full metal jacket" and while I'm sure some of them are a large majority are simple poor white trash who have absolutely no other options.

It was sad and pitiable and sure the US is "winning" on some level a lot of poor yokels are paying a large price.
And they are being sent by someone who did not have the guts to go himself when he was their age.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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lenharper said:
While it is clear to everyone who reads this forum that the Canadian military is underfunded and unprepared it was kinda sad watching the Passionate Eye documentary last night that cronicled the journey of a group of Alabama State guardsmen on their way to Iraq. They were ill-equipped, out of shape and overage. And once they got there none of thier shit worked.

I wonder if the average American knows exactly who they are sending off to foriegn wars -- I think we imagine they are highly trained killers ala the guys in "full metal jacket" and while I'm sure some of them are a large majority are simple poor white trash who have absolutely no other options.

It was sad and pitiable and sure the US is "winning" on some level a lot of poor yokels are paying a large price.

it depends on the guard unit- not all are of same caliber- depends alot on their commanding officers and the support they get from their state
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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The Guard is the State Militia. Not the regular Army.
 

lenharper

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Jan 15, 2004
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I know the guard is not regular army. What's your point? My point was simply that it was sad to see that a significant number of fighting men and women in Iraq are being drawn from the guard and that the guard unit portrayed in this documentary was woefully pnprepared to take on the task at hand.
 

assoholic

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Aug 30, 2004
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..the US has only two options lessen its military commitments or bring back the draft. The day the draft is brought back the whole tone of the arguements in the US will change.
 

assoholic

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Aug 30, 2004
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..as long as the US can keep up the pretense of an all volunteer army in Iraq they will keep public support. When any one complains people just say " well they voluntered ". Truth is of course with stop loss orders the volunteer army is already pretty much a lie. I dont know the current numbers but I would guess 30 -40 thousand serviceman and woman whoe's enlistment has been up for awhile.
If the draft is brought back in it becomes a burden, not something somebody volunteered for, and thats when the anti-war movement will really pick up steam.
Time is on the side of the guerillas, those already pranceing around because they think Bush was right on Iraq will be singing a very diffferent tune a couple of years from now.
imho
 

Peeping Tom

Boil them in Oil
Dec 24, 2002
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The creativity of the new left logic never ceases to astound me. How many interpretations are there for the concept of volunteer?

assoholic said:
..as long as the US can keep up the pretense of an all volunteer army in Iraq they will keep public support. When any one complains people just say " well they voluntered ".
 

onthebottom

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Jan 10, 2002
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Peeping Tom said:
The creativity of the new left logic never ceases to astound me. How many interpretations are there for the concept of volunteer?
Wonder how the coerced military voted in the last election? I bet it was 2 for 1 for Bush.

OTB
 

irlandais9000

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Feb 15, 2004
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Peeping Tom said:
His CO didn't send him.

Of course Bush's CO didn't send him to Vietnam. In the 1960s, it was well understood that there were ways to avoid combat duty, and Bush's method was one of them. It is no coincidence that the Guard back then had many sons of the wealthy and powerful, while the combat troops were more middle and lower class, on average.

It is also well documented that Bush's record was mediocre, but he still was catapulted to near the top of the waiting list for the Guard. Connections were very important. It was understood that the chances of combat duty in Bush's Guard unit were quite low when compared to risking the draft.
 

irlandais9000

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onthebottom said:
Wonder how the coerced military voted in the last election? I bet it was 2 for 1 for Bush.

OTB
I wonder how many of them would vote for him now, after more of the "stop gap", inadequate equipment, threatened cuts in combat pay and so on.
 

onthebottom

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irlandais9000 said:
I wonder how many of them would vote for him now, after more of the "stop gap", inadequate equipment, threatened cuts in combat pay and so on.
Gee, there was just an election 5 months ago......

OTB
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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Peeping Tom said:
His CO didn't send him.

you are right- but he could have volunteered for combat if he really was a patriot
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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onthebottom said:
Wonder how the coerced military voted in the last election? I bet it was 2 for 1 for Bush.

OTB

I have asked this before but never really gotten an answer- With a secret ballot vote- how would you know how the military or anyone else really voted?
 

Peeping Tom

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Dec 24, 2002
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One can poll them, as with any other segment of the population. This is often a good indicator although not absolute, as recent events have shown. It may be that military members have a high registration as Republicans - in itself a strong correlate of voting preference.
 
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