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Death penalty or not

xarir

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Aug 20, 2001
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Send him to Australia!

But seriously, I think the death penalty has its place but I'm at a loss to clearly define its application. For instance, in the case of Paul Bernardo I think the death penalty would have been fair. There was another fellow in Belgium who was even worse than Bernardo - here too I think death penalty was just.

But where does one draw the line? When do you use death penalty and when don't you? That's the problem I struggle with.
 

onthebottom

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yychobbyist said:
In my view there is no place for the death penalty.
falls off chair that YYC has taken the liberal position yet again

If there was such a thing as life without parole then who would care.

OTB
 

tolkienreader

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Give death to those who by their actions have asked for it.

Let those live who are yet innocent. The unborn.

From an Atheist.
 

papasmerf

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yychobbyist said:
and the contrary is also true - how can you be in favour of the death penalty and oppose abortion? As I've said on this board more than once before, consistency is an impossibility.

Pretty easy answer to that one. If convicted of a capital crime a person stands to get the death penalty. What crime has the unborn child comitted and when was there a trial finding this unborn guilty of a capital crime?
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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Cute In A Kilt said:
http://library.thinkquest.org/16665/deathpenalty.shtml

Go China! :eek:

I just don't think any of us have the right to judge the death of others... but at the same time I don't want to be paying for a life sentence of a serial child molester or rapist either.
Amazing how this topic keeps coming up every few months or so. Even setting aside the moral issue of the state taking a life, I'm opposed to the death penalty because it doesn't work.

It costs far more to prosecute a capital punishment case then it does to keep an inmate in life imprisonment.

There is no clear evidence that the dealth penalty deters crime. In fact, states without the death penalty have some of the lowest homicide rates, states with the death penalty the highest.

Since the early seventies there have been over 100 inmates on death row in the US ultimately exonerated by new evidence. It would be impossible to believe there weren't also some who had no one to take up there cause and were wrongfully executed.
 

mrpolarbear

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Sometimes i wonder why i am against the death penalty after seeing what some monsters have done , but then i think of where i live and we have seen 13 people walk off of death row after the had been wrongfully covicted. Death is final, you make a mistake you cant go back and make it right. I am anxious to see how The Supreme Court rules this spring when it comes to states killing juvenile offenders.
 

Choron

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The death penalty has its place... People who are scum should die... simple as that... Prison hardly ever produces changes in people... haha
 

Asterix

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And thank you, Nelson.
 

papasmerf

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yychobbyist vbmenu_register("postmenu_819881", true);
Bemused

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Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmerf
Pretty easy answer to that one. If convicted of a capital crime a person stands to get the death penalty. What crime has the unborn child comitted and when was there a trial finding this unborn guilty of a capital crime?



The taking of a life is the taking of a life as far as I can tell.
__________________



Now with that logic you believe that ABORTIONISTS are serial killers. As such should they be allowed to walk the streets just waiting for the next shance to take innocent life? BTW I never expected you to see abortion as killing. I am impressed.
]
 

Hard Idle

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Why is the death penalty treated like any other sentence?

As the laws are applied today, I'd have to say I'm opposed to capital punishment in almost every instance. There is way too much room to convict the wrong person and then kill them.

But if there were a much higher standard of proof required to seek and get the death penalty, I could accept it in certain cases. It would be applied only to violent repeat offenders, and require not just proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but proof beyond any plausable doubt. Example:

A repeat offender walks into a mall with an assault riffle and shoots people at random without provocation. It is caught on camera, and 47 witnesses of all possible backgrounds ID the same guy and give the same story. None of the witnesses has any dealings or history with the suspect. Case closed - zero chance of mistaken identity, witness prejudice or over-ambitious prosecutors embelishing the case.

Anyting much fuzzier than that, and you have to leave room to prove a guy innocent, or less guilty down the road.
 

papasmerf

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Hard Idle said:
Why is the death penalty treated like any other sentence?

As the laws are applied today, I'd have to say I'm opposed to capital punishment in almost every instance. There is way too much room to convict the wrong person and then kill them.

But if there were a much higher standard of proof required to seek and get the death penalty, I could accept it in certain cases. It would be applied only to violent repeat offenders, and require not just proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but proof beyond any plausable doubt. Example:

A repeat offender walks into a mall with an assault riffle and shoots people at random without provocation. It is caught on camera, and 47 witnesses of all possible backgrounds ID the same guy and give the same story. None of the witnesses has any dealings or history with the suspect. Case closed - zero chance of mistaken identity, witness prejudice or over-ambitious prosecutors embelishing the case.

Anyting much fuzzier than that, and you have to leave room to prove a guy innocent, or less guilty down the road.
Your descriuption of zellots trying a case reminds me of OJs trial.
 

Cardinal Fang

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langeweile said:
I was always wondering how one could be against the death penalty, but pro-abortion?
[font=&quot]And equally odd is how someone could be "Pro-Life" and support the Death Penalty. Not meant as a comment to you Langeweile but as a general comment.

I used to support the death penalty because I honestly believed in an "eye for an eye." But as I got older (hard to believe I know) I realized certain truths.

1) The death penalty does not reduce violent crime.
2) Minorities are more likely to receive the death penalty for the same crimes.
3) Innocent people have been put to death.

I believe in Life without parole with hard labour. I believe in being punished for your crimes. In my opinion being put to death lets you off the hook.[/font]
 

onthebottom

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yychobbyist said:
and the contrary is also true - how can you be in favour of the death penalty and oppose abortion? As I've said on this board more than once before, consistency is an impossibility.
Ah, kill guilty people save innocent people......

As I said, I'm fairly indifferent to the death penalty for several reasons:

It is not a deterrent in the US because it's application is so random (as opposed to Singapore where, if you are caught with drugs you're dead within the week)

It's more expensive than prison for life because the damn lawyers waste so much time.

Convicted does not always mean guilty, it's very hard to release someone you've put to death.

The only real advantage is that it pisses the Europeans off ;-)

OTB
 

happygrump

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May 21, 2004
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onthebottom said:
The only real advantage is that it pisses the Europeans off ;-)

OTB
Hey... no fair! I used to be anti-death-penalty, but now you've got me changing my mind. Anytime we can get under the skin of irritating Frenchmen can't be all bad... :D
 

Hard Idle

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papasmerf said:
Your descriuption of zellots trying a case reminds me of OJs trial.
It's a fact that many prosecutors see their post as a springboard to a bigger political career. In many jurisdictions, DA's & judges are elected, so even those who wish to stay within the legal system can be tempted to go for a big score in a highly publicized case.

Higher standards should be required for Capital Punishment. Ones which leave no room for a mistakes or emotions, and rule out even th most far-fetched conspiracy theory.

It's bad enough that somebody's life is in the hands of a jury to begin with. The very fact that votes on guilt & inocence may be cast by people who give their VISA #'s to TV psychics is scarry enough. Then you have mob mentalities in emotional trials were jurors are browbeaten with testimonies of sobbing relatives and touchy home movies, against a defendant who is usually unsympathetic.
 

Cinema Face

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I've got the solution

Those convicted of 1st degree murder should be put away for life, but they also should get a tissue scan and the data should be in a world wide database. That way if someone somewhere needs a kidney, heart, or any other life saving organ, then the felon becomes a living organ donor.

This is capital punishment that is an easier sell to the bleeding hearts. If you're responsible for taking a life then you're responsible for saving a life. That's your debt to society.
 
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