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The Next Bush Victory?

onthebottom

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With a cease-fire between the Palestinians and Israel will peace be the next victory for the Bush administration. I know there is a long way to go, and these to parties have shown a tendency to snatch failure from the jaws of victory, but with Arafat dead and Bush putting renewed focus on peace there seems to be optimism.

From the Economist (just a link this time):

http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3643056

OTB
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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that would be great but its not the first cease fire. Despite being a genius I am not clear on how Mr. Bush has contributed to the peace process.
 

langeweile

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red said:
that would be great but its not the first cease fire. Despite being a genius I am not clear on how Mr. Bush has contributed to the peace process.
It is called " The roadmap to peace". Certainly a lot more effective than Clinton's/Albright's force fed peace plan.
 

red

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langeweile said:
It is called " The roadmap to peace". Certainly a lot more effective than Clinton's/Albright's force fed peace plan.
Who cares about what clinton suggested. It didn't work. Any lasting solution will come out of the mideast because it works for all the players. Bush's Roadmap to Peace is just more drivel. If anything happens it won't be because of Mr. Bush, it will be because of the leaders in the mideast
 

langeweile

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red said:
Who cares about what clinton suggested. It didn't work. Any lasting solution will come out of the mideast because it works for all the players. Bush's Roadmap to Peace is just more drivel. If anything happens it won't be because of Mr. Bush, it will be because of the leaders in the mideast
Is that why the USA is sending millions of dollars over there? Because it is irrelevant? Gee, you got me on that one..
 

red

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langeweile said:
Is that why the USA is sending millions of dollars over there? Because it is irrelevant? Gee, you got me on that one..

I am glad you agree.
 

red

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langeweile said:
Gee, you got me on that one..

did you not say this? sending money will not solve the problem and I don't think the roadmap to peace says- here is 15 billion just shut the fuck up and get along.
 

strange1

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Hamas hasn't bought into a cease fire so it looks like the staus quo. (Unless Abbas has the balls/power to force the terrorists into line)
 

Peeping Tom

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It is very fortunate that Bush refused to recognize the clown in the Halloween costume, sending clear signals to any potential successor that change is in their ballpark and that they must act instead of posture. Thank God that vermin finally croaked ... now we're down to Dear Leader and Fidel ...

onthebottom said:
but with Arafat dead and Bush putting renewed focus on peace there seems to be optimism.
 

langeweile

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red said:
did you not say this? sending money will not solve the problem and I don't think the roadmap to peace says- here is 15 billion just shut the fuck up and get along.
if you are looking for the source of a problem.....always follow the money...either way roadmap or not, the USA will pay the price for peace in the ME, while others reap the benefits....but then..we are the bad guys...right?
 

onthebottom

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Insults aside,

Everyone I've talked to who knows anything about this (not that many people, like 3 actually - all Palestinians) thinks US involvement is critical. I've often said, why do we have to be involved..... apparently we do, one to pressure Israel and two to pay for everything....

This will chafe but I think the facts on the ground are that only the US has the prestige to bring the parties together.

OTB
 

someone

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onthebottom said:
Insults aside,

Everyone I've talked to who knows anything about this (not that many people, like 3 actually - all Palestinians) thinks US involvement is critical. I've often said, why do we have to be involved..... apparently we do, one to pressure Israel and two to pay for everything....OTB
I don't disagree with this. The problem is that rather than putting pressure on Israel, Bush as chosen to ally himself and support Israel at every opportunity. Lasting peace will not come from a one sided agreement forced on the Palestinians.
 

onthebottom

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someone said:
I don't disagree with this. The problem is that rather than putting pressure on Israel, Bush as chosen to ally himself and support Israel at every opportunity. Lasting peace will not come from a one sided agreement forced on the Palestinians.
There is nothing that will shake the alliance between the US and Israel. Nothing. There are as many Jews in the US as there are in Israel, the West Bank is full of settlers from Brooklyn. The relationship is far too close for anything to come between the two countries - this is one thing both sides of the political spectrum agree on in the US. I'm not as supportive of Israel as my government is but I live in the real world, and in that world this alliance is unshakable.

Having said that (in more words than necessary as I look at it) this does not preclude the US putting pressure on Israel - Sharon knows that. Remember, nations have interests, not friends. It is in the US's interest to see peace, they now have a party to negotiate with.

It's the Middle East, anything can happen, defeat has been snatched from the jaws of victory more than once - but with the EU, US Russia and now a credible Palestinian PM to work on this there is a fighting chance. I hope we seize it.

Peace in the Middle East could well be Bush's legacy, like winning the cold war is Reagan's.

OTB
 

Peeping Tom

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In the face of terrorism, the Bush administration, or any other, had no choice but unconditional, steadfast support of Israel. Now that the head terrorist is gone, the admin can safely turn up the heat under Israel if they won't play ball. One sided has always been forced on the palestinians, the current window of opportunity is that they might desire change themselves - only this is capable of creating a peace.

someone said:
The problem is that rather than putting pressure on Israel, Bush as chosen to ally himself and support Israel at every opportunity. Lasting peace will not come from a one sided agreement forced on the Palestinians.
 

onthebottom

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Oh, I think Sharon can be a bastard, all the building of settlements in the West Bank is BS. But now is the time to strike, if Bush will boldly seize the moment (and he's been known to do that in the past) it could be a very different, and better world in 4 years.

OTB
 

someone

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onthebottom said:
if Bush will boldly seize the moment (and he's been known to do that in the past) OTB
When? (in a positive way that is)
 

someone

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Peeping Tom said:
In the face of terrorism, the Bush administration, or any other, had no choice but unconditional, steadfast support of Israel. Now that the head terrorist is gone, the admin can safely turn up the heat under Israel if they won't play ball. One sided has always been forced on the palestinians, the current window of opportunity is that they might desire change themselves - only this is capable of creating a peace.
I would say that Sharon has had as much to do with the last 4 years of unrest as anyone else has.
 

onthebottom

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someone said:
When? (in a positive way that is)
I would guess it's the positive part we would disagree on but you can't say he runs from a fight.

OTB
 

Asterix

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onthebottom said:
I would guess it's the positive part we would disagree on but you can't say he runs from a fight.

OTB
Well, he didn't exactly run to Vietnam.
 
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