Discreet Dolls
Toronto Escorts

I wish I understood.....

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
I wish I could understand how Canadians are so willing to give away the responsibility for their own safety, their medical care, and are even willing to accept government assistance in such simple things as food on the table, and clothing on the backs of their children. I'm an American, and I can remember hearing my grandfathers tell how they both made it thru the Depression without once having to take a handout, and they were raising families too. It has been hard at times, but I have always tried to follow how they lived their lives, and I think I've done a decent job, but still....what makes us so different in this respect?....
 

cyrus

New member
Jun 29, 2003
1,381
0
0
The weather I guess!
It is very cold out there
:eek:
 

Mcluhan

New member
BiggieE said:
I wish I could understand how Canadians are so willing to give away the responsibility for their own safety, their medical care, and are even willing to accept government assistance in such simple things as food on the table, and clothing on the backs of their children. I'm an American, and I can remember hearing my grandfathers tell how they both made it thru the Depression without once having to take a handout, and they were raising families too. It has been hard at times, but I have always tried to follow how they lived their lives, and I think I've done a decent job, but still....what makes us so different in this respect?....
When the fire department comes to put out the fire in your house and saves your children, you do not consider it a handout. It's the same concept. Just as you pay for the fire department, we also pay for community provided health services. That is why, unlike your 40,000,000 people or 17% of your population, we do not have people who are not treated because they can't afford it. The largest single casue of personal bankruptcy in your country, is because of medical law suits..we also do not have that that problem. Nor is our illiteracy rate 25%...

My parents also when through the depression. Hard working people who paid their taxes. My grandfather lost his family farm because the banks foreclosed on it during the depression. When acts of speculation on wall street and the banks blew up the economy down south, combined with acts of god that blew away the soil. Today the banks are among the richest corporations in Canada earning billions. My grandfater died a heartbroken man, but he still fed his kids. I know which system I prefer. And you are quite welcome to prefer yours. Even if you do pay three times as much for your OTC drugs, because of it.

I hope that helps.
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
I don't consider the Fire Dept a handout because it's funded with MY tax dollars. The 40 million people without healthcare is a myth. If you are sick, and you go to the hospital, you get taken care of. You know why? Because it's the law. I was told this by a hospital administrator when my father had his stroke in Oct 2003. You know why they foreclosed on your grandfathers farm? Because he defaulted on the loan. Banks, like any other business, are there to make money, as much as they can. That is their job. That is why they were started. It's why people invest in them. I think it's time some people quit thinking the rest of us owe them a living, picked them selves up off of their sorry asses, and got to work. Both of my grandfathers went through the depression, and both were employed thruout it. One worked for the electic company, and the other ran his own auto shop. I'm glad I had them as inspiration, and not the welfare leeches we have around here today. When the whole world thinks it's owed a living, where is it going to come from?.....
 

Mcluhan

New member
BiggieE said:
I don't consider the Fire Dept a handout because it's funded with MY tax dollars. .
You are so quick to jump on someone, you didn't read what i said. (about the fire depatment as an example...I bolded the word you missed.

My attitude differs from yours on farming, probably because you never farmed, but your attitude is typical of most people living in an urban environment. Farming is a way of life with precious skills that are handed down through hundreds of generations in order to feed the population...so they can work in banks and fix cars. Once the skills ar lost, they are lost forever within a family. The 'depression' was caused by banks, parcipating in the equities market by loaning the broker dealers money and leveraging the deposits your grandfathers (and mine) made in savings accounts, and the driver was greed.

Our medical services are also paid for by OUR taxes.

You should take a public transit bus ride sometime through one of your city ghettos...lol..you probably never would, especially if you are white. I've done it in the US, just to experience it, as we don't have such a thing here. The bus went in a straight line for about 40 min...it was quite a trip.

You live in a different society. Knocking ours is akin to living in a glass house and throwing stones at your neighbour.
 

zog

Friendly Arrogant Bastard
Dec 25, 2002
2,021
0
0
58
Downtown TO
You actually contradict yourself

BiggieE said:
I don't consider the Fire Dept a handout because it's funded with MY tax dollars.
I agree. When citizens agree to pool their resources in the form of government taxation in order to provide services to their community, this is not a handout but a sharing of responsibilty.
BiggieE said:
I wish I could understand how Canadians are so willing to give away the responsibility for their own safety, their medical care, and are even willing to accept government assistance in such simple things as food on the table, and clothing on the backs of their children.
In Canada, these services are funded by MY taxes just like our (and your) fire departments. We don't abdicate our responsibility; we share it. You have contradicted your own argument.

Americans, as a society, tend to adopt an "every man for himself" attitude for the majority of their lifestyles. The result is that those who have have and those who don't don't.

In Canada, we tend to take more responsibility for our community and society as a whole rather than focusing only on our personal needs. I may not have the cash to pay for my medical attention today but, if I receive tax-funded treatment, I'll be around and productive tomorrow to contribute once more to the tax pool...maybe the next time, MY tax dollars will help someone else. In the end, everyone is better off.
BiggieE said:
The 40 million people without healthcare is a myth. If you are sick, and you go to the hospital, you get taken care of. You know why? Because it's the law.
Actually, this quote is the real myth! While it is true that anyone in critical condition is obliged by law to be given the minimum life-saving care required, this does not equate to available health-care for everyone. Millions in your country can only afford to see a doctor only as a last resort and, as a result, to not receive the required ongoing maintenance health-care that we take for granted in this country. Many serious conditions can be avoided entirely by regular visits to the doctor but too many Americans become critically ill because they never have this opportunity. Many die early as a result of this problem or are rendered unproductive in society for much longer periods of time...to everyone's detriment.

The Canadian Healthcare system may be imperfect but it is based on the right approach to community and societal health. Wealthy Americans enjoy some of the best quality healthcare in the world but, sadly, too many of their fellow citizens get less than the bare minimum.

Zog.
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
My Great-Grandfathers were both farmers, and both made it thru the Depression. I'm not stupid enough to go into one of those nieghborhoods, and for good reason. My 4x4 screams "REDNECK"..I stay off the bus...well..because I worked hard to have my own transportation, so why should I ride some stinky bus. My whole POINT, is why do you let someone else do these things for you?...I'll give you the healthcare, but what about welfare, or I think Canadians call it "assistance"...A lot of Americans seem to the that the "saftey net" has become a hammock....
 

Mcluhan

New member
zog said:
We don't abdicate our responsibility; we share it.

The Canadian Healthcare system may be imperfect but it is based on the right approach to community and societal health. Wealthy Americans enjoy some of the best quality healthcare in the world but, sadly, too many of their fellow citizens get less than the bare minimum.

Zog.
Well said Zog..well said.

And of course we havn't touched on the violence disparity. A few years ago, a nurse friend of mine left here and went to L.A. to work. She ended up in an emergency ward. According to her it was like dropping into a battle zone MASH unit...there was one gun shot wound after the other after the other pouring in all night long. Mostly gang and drug related. A steady stream of critical cases. This likely has some bearing on the cost and of the privatization aspect.
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
....Did you ever think that if we locked up the druggies, and the dealers, that might help?....just a wee bit?....
 

Mcluhan

New member
BiggieE said:
I'm not stupid enough to go into one of those nieghborhoods, and for good reason.
Exactly my point.

In my case, I took the bus because I was 2,000 miles from home and travelling. I figured I wouldn't get shot in a bus...maybe I was lucky. In any case, I saw something you will probably never see. Lucky you I guess.
 

zog

Friendly Arrogant Bastard
Dec 25, 2002
2,021
0
0
58
Downtown TO
It's every man for himself in your world...

So BiggieE...if you are injured or become disabled and can't work to make a living, you'll just starve or freeze to death and that's OK? What about the family that depended on your income? Does it just suck to be them?

Social assistance programs exist to protect us all from forces beyond our control; "safety-net" is a very apt metaphore. We can pursue our lives secure in the knowledge that if something happens that is beyond our control we, and those who depend on us, will still have the option to have a life. I don't think that's so bad.

It is true that there will always be some people who seek to take advantage of any situation and welfare fraud is another example of this unfortunate aspect of human nature. People always point to the abusers of the system to try to justify it's failures. The fact is, however, that for every dead-beat that tries to sponge-off the system there are many many more who derive legitimate and necessary benefits from it.

Zog.
 

Mcluhan

New member
It's your problem bud, not ours...you asking?

BiggieE said:
....Did you ever think that if we locked up the druggies, and the dealers, that might help?....just a wee bit?....
lol..you already have 9% of your population in jails... what is the number? 25,000,000 (from memory.)...you can't build jails fast enough. You should compare that society of yours with 'any' soceity on the face of the earth.. lol.. Very very violent...lots of crime...lots of illiteracy...lots of poverty. There's the American dream...and then there's the reality. Much of which you've never even seen.
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
Mcluhan said:
lol..you already have 9% of your population in jails... what is the number? 25,000,000 (from memory.)...you can't build jails fast enough. You should compare that society of yours with 'any' soceity on the face of the earth.. lol.. Very very violent...lots of crime...lots of illiteracy...lots of poverty. There's the American dream...and then there's the reality. Much of which you've never even seen.
I don't care if we have to lock up %30-40 of the population. Why is such a terible thing to take crminals off the streets, away from us?..If some one wants to live a life of crime, I say fine, but don't get all bent out of shape when we lock you up. Yes, lucky me. I don't live in the ghettos, but I have sen them, and some of the worst ones too. I used to drive a semi, and some of my deliveries used to take me to some of the worst ones in the country. Chicago, The Bronx, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Jacksonville, Atlanta. When I see someone like Clin Powell, who IS a worthy role model for Black youth, called an Uncle Tom, simply because he did'nt follow the liberal welfare system, it makes me so mad. Because instead of these kids finding a way to improve thier lives, and these neighborhoods, all they are going to to is fall into the wreckage that is todays inner city. Now THAT is sad.
 

zog

Friendly Arrogant Bastard
Dec 25, 2002
2,021
0
0
58
Downtown TO
Why not lock 'em all up?

BiggieE said:
I don't care if we have to lock up %30-40 of the population.
I'd rather not live in a country where 40% of the population need to be locked up. Isn't there something seriously wrong with your world if two out of five citizens need to be incarcerated? I guess we're all entitled to our opinions but I'd say that your guys need to make some serious changes if you can't create a community where more than sixty percent of you can manage to live within the law.

Have you even considerd just how much of your taxes it would take to keep nearly half the population behind bars? Far from a practical solution, in my view.

Zog.
 

Mcluhan

New member
BiggieE said:
I don't care if we have to lock up %30-40 of the population. Why is such a terible thing to take crminals off the streets, away from us?..If some one wants to live a life of crime, I say fine, but don't get all bent out of shape when we lock you up. Yes, lucky me. I don't live in the ghettos, but I have sen them, and some of the worst ones too. I used to drive a semi, and some of my deliveries used to take me to some of the worst ones in the country. Chicago, The Bronx, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Jacksonville, Atlanta. When I see someone like Clin Powell, who IS a worthy role model for Black youth, called an Uncle Tom, simply because he did'nt follow the liberal welfare system, it makes me so mad. Because instead of these kids finding a way to improve thier lives, and these neighborhoods, all they are going to to is fall into the wreckage that is todays inner city. Now THAT is sad.
Hey BigggieE...you should consider moving to Canada. You'd probably love it here! Leave all those problems behind! lol
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
23
38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
As Teddy R once said, "Pray not for lighter burdens but for stronger backs" - America is unique in this worldview.

OTB
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
Mcluhan said:
Hey BigggieE...you should consider moving to Canada. You'd probably love it here! Leave all those problems behind! lol
...Ya know, I've been to Canada many times.....you know the old saying..."Nice place, but......"...America is my Home, and I'm doing what I can to make it better. Americans don't run from problems. We try to solve them. If that means we have to lock up %40 of the population, so the other %60 can walk the streets at night...so be it.....
 

Mcluhan

New member
BiggieE said:
...Ya know, I've been to Canada many times.....you know the old saying..."Nice place, but......"...America is my Home, and I'm doing what I can to make it better. Americans don't run from problems. We try to solve them. If that means we have to lock up %40 of the population, so the other %60 can walk the streets at night...so be it.....
Well, great! When you've got yours all nicely solved. Maybe then you can offer us some advice... if we ask for it of course! lol
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
Mcluhan said:
Well, great! When you've got yours all nicely solved. Maybe then you can offer us some advice... if we ask for it of course! lol
I'll do my best.....I am an American, afterall..... ;)
 
Toronto Escorts