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Guns and the Citizen

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
I was asked to move this discussion over to this forum so I could be "beat up". Ok...but first a little history about who I am.....


I hold a NYS Pistol Pemit w/ Concealed Carry...
I have owned guns since I was a boy...
I am a registered Republican....
I am a Life Member of the National Rifle Association..
My guns are stored in a 1500 lb safe in my basement...
My ammunition is in a locker that weighs over 500 lbs when locked and full...
I have over 100 hrs of Practical Pistol training....
I have competed in Slow-fire Rifle competition, as well as Rapid-Fire Rifle....
I carry a Glock 30 semi- automatic pistol when I leave my home...
Most of my friends and family carry a gun when away from home....
None of them have ever had to use their guns....
I believe that self- reliance is a requirement to live in a free society.....
I believe that Gun- Control is hitting what you're shooting at....
I believe that if you don't want to carry a gun for self-protection, then don't...but don't restrict my ability to do so....
Haveing a police force is a good thing, but they can't be everywhere at once, therefore you must take some responsability for your own saftey....

and finally...if you are in fear for your life, then why would you let that person close enough to you to take your gun from you...you have it, so use it.....


I am also an American...... :D


God Bless America.....and George Walker Bush....
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
BiggieE said:
I was asked to move this discussion over to this forum so I could be "beat up". Ok...but first a little history about who I am.....


I hold a NYS Pistol Pemit w/ Concealed Carry...
I have owned guns since I was a boy...
I am a registered Republican....
I am a Life Member of the National Rifle Association..
My guns are stored in a 1500 lb safe in my basement...
My ammunition is in a locker that weighs over 500 lbs when locked and full...
I have over 100 hrs of Practical Pistol training....
I have competed in Slow-fire Rifle competition, as well as Rapid-Fire Rifle....
I carry a Glock 30 semi- automatic pistol when I leave my home...
Most of my friends and family carry a gun when away from home....
None of them have ever had to use their guns....
I believe that self- reliance is a requirement to live in a free society.....
I believe that Gun- Control is hitting what you're shooting at....
I believe that if you don't want to carry a gun for self-protection, then don't...but don't restrict my ability to do so....
Haveing a police force is a good thing, but they can't be everywhere at once, therefore you must take some responsability for your own saftey....

and finally...if you are in fear for your life, then why would you let that person close enough to you to take your gun from you...you have it, so use it.....


I am also an American...... :D


God Bless America.....and George Walker Bush....
I believe that children are the future, treat them well, and let them show the way
 

Tallman1

New member
Oct 16, 2003
158
0
0
Well except for the NYS

Since I am a good ole Southern boy........

And although i dont have those weapons.... ya got me havin' weapon envy...

My leanings are certainly your way...
 

islandboy

New member
Nov 14, 2004
227
0
0
You know most NRA members actuall think that there is a private right to bear arms in the constitution. All it says it that there is a rigth to bear arms in order for the states to form a militias.

Terrible issue as neither side trust the other when in fact there is plenty to find common ground on. The gun lobby has people brain washed. The anti gun lobby, hears about unrestrict rights to obtain and use guns and goes balistic. The whole point is that there is a ligitiamte reason to know that kids and crimials to not buy them and that the transfer after original purchase is simialry restricted. That's very bad for sales which are hugh in proportion to the legal sales that the states already know about. Too much slippage in the system all caused by people who would rather distrust each other than work together.

Unfortunately, the fact that there were no reasonable restrictions for such a long time and now so many guns in crinimals hands makes the arguement that you may need one for self protection something that can not be laughed down as it would be in many countries with safer streets.

I have no solution other than that people of good will have to come together and work this out with a long term plan.
 

cyrus

New member
Jun 29, 2003
1,381
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0
All these are good and dandy but do you really need to have the right to own an automatic or even semi-automatic weapon too, how about the right to own RPG or a Tank or Stinger missiles?
God forbid you may have to defend yourself right in the middle of a crowded city if some one tries to shoot you down by an apache gunship!
My point is that this constitutional right to own weapons in a country that has arm forces to defend its borders and all sorts of law enforcement forces to defend its citizens is so ridicules that is not even worth arguing over IMO
But again only in America!
 

Muddy

Sr. Member
Jun 19, 2002
661
10
18
Toronto
www.
Gun, guns, guns

Oh wow, no wonder America is FUCKED!

Me, I'm planning to buy a tank, an anti-airctrft gun, and a bunch of plutonium. Then, when I've made my wee little atom bomb, I'm going to protect myself and my home from the warmongering assholes like George Shrub. I know I;ll be safe, because the Americans will never find my weapons of mass personal destruction.

Needless to say, gun-toting American louts scare the hell out of me!
 

antaeus

Active member
Sep 3, 2004
1,693
7
38
Personally I believe that no one needs a gun, ever. Guns will get into hands of bad guys and good guys will slip up and the consequences are unacceptable. But, like drugs and prostitution, guns are here, always will be, so we should accept and deal with it. BiggieE's approach sounds perfect, although stating Republican, NRA, American seems irrelevant.

The personal protection argument is false like a placebo drug. No person can predict how they will react in a high-drama situation. Training is useless if you cannot react in a 'proper' way psychologically or are in a compromising position while others, with or without training, may, whether armed or not.

When I was in college, a guest lecturer discussed the design and engineering of guns: an extension of the body, balance, metal and wood color - texture contrast. I thought it very intelligent and the key to all discussion of gun ownership.

It seems to me owning, practice and collection of firearms is no different than any other hobby: you like it, the look and feel, different models, idiosyncracies, time well spent, like-minded people, etc. Why justify it with inarguable moral ploys voiced as twisted Americanisms. So, collect, practice and store guns just like well armed Republican, NRA, American BiggieE, just save us the sanctimonius justification for your hobby. You own guns because they're cool.
 

islandboy

New member
Nov 14, 2004
227
0
0
Yes there is reason to be scared with so many guns out there.



The reason it is in our constitution at all is that each state wanted to retain the ability to raise a militia to protect its citizens in case something went very wrong with the American experiment. The idea was not that the states would fight each other but rather to ensure that, if the federal governement was not up to the job of protecting all the states, the states could each protect their own citzens. This was a reaction to our experience with British rule, the possiblity that the Brittish would try to come back - they did in 1812, and to some of the other problems we had under them regarding self defense of the frontiers.
 

baci2004

Bad girl Luv'r
Mar 21, 2004
2,573
1
36
53
At the range!!!
BiggieE said:
I was asked to move this discussion over to this forum so I could be "beat up". Ok...but first a little history about who I am.....
BiggieE said:


I hold a NYS Pistol Pemit w/ Concealed Carry...
I have owned guns since I was a boy...
I am a registered Republican....
I am a Life Member of the National Rifle Association..
My guns are stored in a 1500 lb safe in my basement...
My ammunition is in a locker that weighs over 500 lbs when locked and full...
I have over 100 hrs of Practical Pistol training....
I have competed in Slow-fire Rifle competition, as well as Rapid-Fire Rifle....
I carry a Glock 30 semi- automatic pistol when I leave my home...
Most of my friends and family carry a gun when away from home....
None of them have ever had to use their guns....
I believe that self- reliance is a requirement to live in a free society.....
I believe that Gun- Control is hitting what you're shooting at....
I believe that if you don't want to carry a gun for self-protection, then don't...but don't restrict my ability to do so....
Haveing a police force is a good thing, but they can't be everywhere at once, therefore you must take some responsability for your own saftey....

and finally...if you are in fear for your life, then why would you let that person close enough to you to take your gun from you...you have it, so use it.....


I am also an American...... :D


God Bless America.....and George Walker Bush....


That's nice..what's your point?
 

islandboy

New member
Nov 14, 2004
227
0
0
Guns in the US are a big problem that should have been addressed years ago when it was more managable. People acting or reacting like small people with vested interests will never solve it. That is very scary but is also a fact.
 

slowpoke

New member
Oct 22, 2004
2,899
0
0
Toronto
A few firearm facts:

"...Every day, 15 children aged 19 and under are killed with guns.
On a daily basis, 100,000 students carry guns to school, 160,000 miss class due to fear of physical harm, and 40 are injured or killed by firearms.
A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to be used in self-defense.
The unintentional firearm injury death rate among children ages 14 and under in the U.S. is nine times higher than in 25 other industrialized countries combined..."
http://www.ctsafekids.org/Fact_Sheets/fact5.htm
 

papasmerf

New member
Oct 22, 2002
26,533
0
0
42.55.65N 78.43.73W
BiggieE said:
I was asked to move this discussion over to this forum so I could be "beat up". Ok...but first a little history about who I am.....


I hold a NYS Pistol Pemit w/ Concealed Carry...
I have owned guns since I was a boy...
I am a registered Republican....
I am a Life Member of the National Rifle Association..
My guns are stored in a 1500 lb safe in my basement...
My ammunition is in a locker that weighs over 500 lbs when locked and full...
I have over 100 hrs of Practical Pistol training....
I have competed in Slow-fire Rifle competition, as well as Rapid-Fire Rifle....
I carry a Glock 30 semi- automatic pistol when I leave my home...
Most of my friends and family carry a gun when away from home....
None of them have ever had to use their guns....
I believe that self- reliance is a requirement to live in a free society.....
I believe that Gun- Control is hitting what you're shooting at....
I believe that if you don't want to carry a gun for self-protection, then don't...but don't restrict my ability to do so....
Haveing a police force is a good thing, but they can't be everywhere at once, therefore you must take some responsability for your own saftey....

and finally...if you are in fear for your life, then why would you let that person close enough to you to take your gun from you...you have it, so use it.....


I am also an American...... :D


God Bless America.....and George Walker Bush....


Only those who can use themand understand that to use is ment to wound, should own a gun.

One must understand just what they have.
 

BiggieE

Guest
Jan 29, 2004
609
0
0
Rochester, NY, USA
YYChobbyist wanted me to bring to this forum istead of the lounge, so he could "beat me up", which is why I started this thread. I included a few facts, just so that you might better understand my approach to this subject. As someone brought up training, is'nt the point of training, to teach you how to react to a situation? Is'nt this why the police, and the military spend so much time, and effort on taining their people, so they can be prepared? I'm not a "I'm right, and everybody else is wrong" type. I do believe that if you choose to own guns, that you respect what they can do. How many of those childrens deaths could have been prevented by common sense storage of the gun? I have spent much time and money, trying to get proper training, so that if a situation arose, where the deadly use of force may be require, that I would have the knowledge to understand it's lawful use. Someone posted that guns were becoming aproblem in Canada. Are those guns that are owned within the bounderies of law? I absolutly do not support the ownership of guns by the criminal element. How does restricting the lawful ownership of a gun, do anything to curb the illegal ownership of a gun? Most illegal guns are stolen. WQe had a gun store near my home that was broken into, and some of thse guns that were stolen wound up found on a raid on an illegal gun seller. He was selling them from the trunk of a car. I have never claimed to have all the answers, and if some of the membership can shed some light that would be helpful, I would much appreciate it. Someone said the 2 sides need to learn to talk to each other without the shouting and vitriol. Here's a small way to do just that......
 

strange1

Guest
Mar 14, 2004
807
0
0
As far as I can tell, a gun is only useful as a deterrent against someone else with a gun. As long as the stae is working efficiently, there should be no need for a gun for personal protection.

I also have a BIG question for the gun owners. If you have a gun to protect your house and you kepp the gun safely locked up in a safe, how can the gun be used for protection. "Excuse me Mr. home invader. Could you please give me a couple of minutes to go unlock my safe and load my gun?" To be useful for self defence, a gun needs to be available. If the gun is readily available, it creates a risk to your family and the public.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
Muddy said:
Oh wow, no wonder America is FUCKED!

Me, I'm planning to buy a tank, an anti-airctrft gun, and a bunch of plutonium. Then, when I've made my wee little atom bomb, I'm going to protect myself and my home from the warmongering assholes like George Shrub. I know I;ll be safe, because the Americans will never find my weapons of mass personal destruction.

Needless to say, gun-toting American louts scare the hell out of me!
Now there is well thought out well spoken point of view.
Wow so much clear thinking in one place....great.
I am not sure who is more scary...
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
bbking said:
Guns are becoming a big problem in Canada also. Look I've owned guns in the past for hunting and ok fishing once but only felt the need to own a handgun when I was working in Atlanta. It was a very strange feeling to own a gun for protection rather than sport.


bbk

Yup..Atlanta will do that to you. Lived there myself for about three years. Thank God I lived outside the city in a place close to Newnan.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
If you want to own a gun, you should be required to have a license. You should be able to proof why you need one.
In order to get a license you have proof that you know how to use it and handle it.

As long as we all understand, that this will not solve the crime issue.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
islandboy said:
This was a reaction to our experience with British rule, the possiblity that the Brittish would try to come back - they did in 1812, and to some of the other problems we had under them regarding self defense of the frontiers.
huh? didn't the US invade Canada in 1812 - not the reverse?
 

KBear

Supporting Member
Aug 17, 2001
4,169
1
38
west end
www.gtagirls.com
Seems like gun ownership is a hobby to you. You only need to own one gun for personal protection.

The laws in Canada that restrict handgun ownership are fairly new, maybe put in place 30 years ago. Perhaps if they had the same laws in place in the US they would not be having the problems with guns they are having now.

I have been around guns most of my life, and am somewhat of an expert in some areas, but it would be a sad day if I felt the need to start carrying a loaded handgun because I was worried about my personal safety. You can keep your right to carry a loaded handgun, I much prefer our system in Canada. That said, if I did live in some parts of the US, I would likely carry a gun, but I would not be proud of it.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
good point. I have used guns and owned guns for years. but if they were restricted or taken away- so be it- I see it as a privilege.

It would be a shame to feel - i needed to carry one for personal protection
 
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