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Yes Or No. The US Survival Depends On Exporting Democracy

Mcluhan

New member
This was the message of the Inaugural Address. The refrain spreading Freedom and Liberty was repeated over and over. The CNN analyst said it could be counter argued, but of course Aaron Brown cut him off. I suppose he would have hit upon the fact that the US strongest allies in the region are regimes.

What are the pros and cons of this policy? It seems Bush's entire argument for the invasion of Iraq now rests on this case. I think he even said 'America's survival'; which is a pretty strong committment to the idea.

How do you think history will eventually support this statement? How's your crystal ball view working? I see it as a 50 year make war project.
 

Mcluhan

New member
DonQuixote said:
US survival can be found in it's own growth. The US has to become more
creative and innotavive in the challenges we face in the future. Terrorism's
strength is to propagandize the target audience/country by commiting what
is in reality a small number of violent acts that reverberate through the nation.
Example: on one day 3,000 people die in the commercial and governmental
capitals of the US and the country is sent into a frightening panic that changes
just about everything we do. The terrorists spent $500k and 19 lives and turned
the country around to the point the attack was equivalent to Pearl Harbor.
Enough said.

US survival depends on the proper use of the intellectual and creative power of
its people. India is our major threat. They are creating a creative class with
well educated scientists, engineers and business men/women. The future
belongs to the countries that are leaders in innovation that leads the markets.
I'm not so concerned about China because they aren't approaching the critical
mass as rapidly as India.

My opinion. Don
Share that opinion! India has been independent from the shackles of Britain for only 50 plus years yet today India’s growing middle class represents a population larger than the entire pop of the US. Meanwhile, the US middle class seems to have a hit an oil slick because of it. India sends six times the number of people to University as China. Their purchasing power is expected to increase by a multiplier of six times over the next 40 years. They are about to conquer their poverty. Here’s a quote form an article on India’s middle class. “Never before in recorded history have so many people been in a position to rise so quickly.” Over this same period, their middle class, in sheer numbers will dwarf the US middle class be a factor of ten. And they probably won’t be buying Fords.

I became aware of a TV program last week from India that has an audience of 1 billion world wide. I found that staggering. They truly seem both economically and culturaly to be the main global contender of this century.
 

cyrus

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Jun 29, 2003
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yychobbyist said:
No it doesn't depend on exporting democracy. They've survived just fine without exporting it for 200 plus years. Why start now?
The Survival of US will be in jeopardy if she assumes exporting democracy would be the answer.
On the contrary the survival of US will be assured if she is looked up to as the role model for democracy so the rest of the world could follow her on their own good time.
 

auto doctor

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Aug 25, 2004
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Yes or no

No.....of course. When a politician says export Democracy in the US. It means economic democracy. Let big business be exported by supporting any way the goverment can.

The so call threat to the US will always be economic. 9/11 was an economical attack. The next eco attack will come from the china. Then the US will be looking real hard at South America as an economy alley.
 
Y

yychobbyist

cyrus said:
The Survival of US will be in jeopardy if she assumes exporting democracy would be the answer.
On the contrary the survival of US will be assured if she is looked up to as the role model for democracy so the rest of the world could follow her on their own good time.
I think that's one of the reasons why the U.S.'s image has declined throughout the world over the past, oh, twenty years or so.
 

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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auto doctor said:
No.....of course. When a politician says export Democracy in the US. It means economic democracy. Let big business be exported by supporting any way the goverment can.

The so call threat to the US will always be economic. 9/11 was an economical attack. The next eco attack will come from the china. Then the US will be looking real hard at South America as an economy alley.
I agreee with this.except I am not sure if 9/11 would qualify as an economic attack.
As always, if you want to get to the bottom of a problem, follow the money..
This BTW is not just true for the USA.

Martin is in China right now, drumming up business for Canada, do you think human rights are on the top of his agenda??Don't think so.

While he might bring it up, the next question is " What can we sell you?"
 

auto doctor

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Aug 25, 2004
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Paul Martin is over there to see what laws can be changed to help Business grow for himself and his investers. He does not give a crap about the workers or people. He wants to know were to put money to make money and what he need to change in Canada to max this for banks and investers. Paul is not just a Premier he is also an invester.
 

n_v

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Aug 26, 2001
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auto doctor said:
. He wants to know were to put money to make money and what he need to change in Canada to max this for banks and investers. Paul is not just a Premier he is also an invester.
Nothing wrong with that.
 
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yychobbyist

So you're on TERB as a source for contacts? Great way to justify the hours spent on here Lang. If it gets you any leads, post about it and that way more working stiffs may be able to justify being able to log on here to their bosses! :)
 

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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yychobbyist said:
So you're on TERB as a source for contacts? Great way to justify the hours spent on here Lang. If it gets you any leads, post about it and that way more working stiffs may be able to justify being able to log on here to their bosses! :)
Hell no..I am here for, what every other guy is here for,...education and prayer...YUP
 
Y

yychobbyist

You know, I all of a sudden have such a different impression of you.

Look, we have a prayer circle that we're planning to be held in the new fetish section every day at noon eastern. Can you make it?
 

islandboy

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Nov 14, 2004
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You know once in a while someone on this Board will make an interesting observation or have some interesting fact to contribute. If you guys are going to circle pray, talk to the moderator about starting a different section.

As far as exporting demoncracy, well there are economic aspects and political aspects. The bottom line is that the US and what good will it has are based upon hope. AS long as we have reason to hope and can convince others - at least those who do not want their lives to be held hostage by intollerence and/or proverty - that we either will continue to stand (and in some cases fight ) for these things, the US will do well. With a bad economy and bad policies, we not only hurt ourselves but also trample on the idea that things can actually get better; if we continue to screw up we could be starting a vicious downward cycle. That said a lot of the suggestions on this Board of a master us conspiracy to screw others at our expense, is crap. Shit happens. disagreements between peoples are somewhat inevitable. The test is not in the little disagreements but what happens when all the chips are on the table. (Note: Canada needs to get back to the table with increased defense spending and increased contributions to international endeavors.)
 

islandboy

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Nov 14, 2004
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BBKING notes: "I don't think it's a bad idea - I have always felt the US has never used it's standing as the largest most profitable market to get what it wants and needs."

The Bush administration understands this. The problem is that we are so big that any dislocations we cause are part of the evil empire and it plan to subject the world. (just see the comments about Argentina in anther post.)
 

onthebottom

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I think this is framed too black and white, the real question is will the US and the world be better off if freedom and liberty continue their spread and should we work to hasten that. I’d say yes to both of those.

Here is the actual speech: http://www.gop.com/media/PDFs/inauguraladdress.pdf

A few quotes:

“We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world.

…..

“This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary. Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen, and defended by citizens, and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. And when the soul of a nation finally speaks, the institutions that arise may reflect customs and traditions very different from our own. America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom and make their own way.”

…..

“The rulers of outlaw regimes can know that we still believe as Abraham Lincoln did: “those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves; and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it.”

OTB
 
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