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Cardinal Ambrosic

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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Or whatever is name is. What a disappointing letter from someone who should know better.
 

xarir

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red said:
Or whatever is name is. What a disappointing letter from someone who should know better.
While I personally disagree with the sentiment in his open letter, I don't find it surprising that he or any other high-ranking individual in the Catholic Church would call for "traditional marriage". The Catholic Church for centuries has only allowed marriage between a man and a woman, so why would they change now? Remember, the Church lives in a different reality. (Which is why I personally find the Church to be largely irrelvant in my own life.)

In any case, I'm pleased with Paul Martin's response which was basically that the Cardinal is entitled to his opinion but so is everyone else. i.e. He basically brushed the letter aside.
 
Y

yychobbyist

Calgary's Bishop Fred Henry wrote a Pastoral letter about homosexuality and there are groups in the city who are investigating making a complaint against him under the hate crime provisions of the Criminal Code.
 

The Scholar

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Jan 4, 2004
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Thoughts...

Folks:

If same-sex marriage legislation is passed by Parliament, Canada becomes only the third nation in the world to legalize such marriages.

This is a threat to the Catholic Church. Consequently, I am not surprised to see His Eminence writing such a letter. It only confirms that there was enormous pressure from the Holy See on the Cardinal to do everything he can to prevent this legislation from being passed. Mind you, the Cardinal's letter was powerful ammunition for the pro same-sex marriage lobby as it reinforced the argument that the powers of the State and the Church must be separate.

One only need look at Maurice Duplessis and his collusion with the Catholic Church in Quebec during his tenure as Quebec Premier.

Btw, this Cardinal really needs to retire. He has undone so much of the progressive work of Cardinal Carter over the last 15 years. It is such a shame.

NOTE: It is interesting to see the silence on the part of the Catholic Bishops in Canada. I suspect that many have decided that it is best to let things happen, as it will anyways, and focus on preserving their own diocesan power.

Regards.
 

langeweile

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I am in agreement with the notion of a same-sex marriage. However I do disagree that any church should be forced to embrace it.
This decision has to be made by each of the churches and their members.
 

Cardinal Fang

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Feb 14, 2002
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The Supreme Court of Canada has answered this question. Religious institutions are NOT required to perform marriages to gay couples if they choose not to.



The Cardinal's thoughts are proof once again how the church is completely out of touch.
 

ocean976124

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Oct 28, 2002
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The Scholar said:
Folks:

NOTE: It is interesting to see the silence on the part of the Catholic Bishops in Canada. I suspect that many have decided that it is best to let things happen, as it will anyways, and focus on preserving their own diocesan power.
Having worked for Catholic institutions, I would counter that most are remaining silent because they see no real gain from speaking out. Most Catholic leaders I've come into contact with don't really care what the government does regarding same sex marriage. Yes they are against it, but they don't feel like losing political capital on an issue they are likely to lose. They'd rather focus on other national policy issues that are more up in the air. Not to mention, they already constantly make a big stink about abortion so they don't want to appear to be constant complainers on every issue. They'd like to keep abortion as their main #1 complaint and focus for big stinks they'd like to throw.
 

red

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langeweile said:
I am in agreement with the notion of a same-sex marriage. However I do disagree that any church should be forced to embrace it.
This decision has to be made by each of the churches and their members.

I am not asking them to embrace it, but be tolerant like our lord jesus christ
 

antaeus

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Sep 3, 2004
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The RC church is irrelevant. Developed countries eliminate organized religion as a legislative authority, limiting it to individual souls' ministration and delivery of social welfare services. Occasional missives will always be ignored. In developing countries they are preaching to the converted, hence irrelevent.

Modern times' knowledge and accepted morals aided by global instantaneous communication of scandal and reparation debt, entrenched misogyny and racism will continue to diminish RC into irrelevancy. South America, SE Asia and southern Africa are the bastions of RC and will always be servants to the Vatican.
 

n_v

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red said:
Or whatever is name is. What a disappointing letter from someone who should know better.
He does know better. At least from you. The man should be given the respect he rightly deserves. Thinking he would deviate his opinion from Rome is silly to think.
 

ocean976124

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So basically what this thread is saying is that one can form a political opinion based on anything except the sayings of Jesus? One can use Freud, Jung, Buddah, Mohammed, Locke, Jefferson, etc. but not Jesus?
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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n_v said:
He does know better. At least from you. The man should be given the respect he rightly deserves. Thinking he would deviate his opinion from Rome is silly to think.
He has a duty to god and to be compassionate with the people on this earth. I think his letter is misguided and will cause him to do some explaining in the hereafter. He should know better - means -as a professed man of god - he should follow the teachings of jc and be understanding, forgiving and not judgemental
 

n_v

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red said:
He has a duty to god and to be compassionate with the people on this earth. I think his letter is misguided and will cause him to do some explaining in the hereafter. He should know better - means -as a professed man of god - he should follow the teachings of jc and be understanding, forgiving and not judgemental
Thing is this is where you are wrong. He isn't a man of god. He is though, a man of God. If you know the difference then there may still be hope for you too.

And where does it say he doesn't have and show compasion? He is not supporting hate of any nature. To draw the conclusion he is incompasionate because he doesn't want the definition of traditional marriage tinkered with is seriously reaching by anyone who thinks that.
 
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red

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Nov 13, 2001
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n_v said:
Thing is this is where you are wrong. He isn't a man of god. He is though, a man of God. If you know the difference then there may still be hope for you too.

And where does it say he doesn't have and show compasion? He is not supporting hate of any nature. To draw the conclusion the is imcompasionate because he doesn't want the definition of traditional amrriage tinkered with is seriously reaching by anyone who thinks that.

not sure where you are going re capitalization, but- you may think that by not changing the definition of marriage and waiting five more years to discuss it - is compassionate- but I don't. I didn't say his comments were promoting hate, just they were not compassionate
 

n_v

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red said:
not sure where you are going re capitalization
Then you shouldn't be posting about anyting religious. Grab a Bible.
If you do then there is some hope for you.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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n_v said:
Then you shouldn't be posting about anyting religious. Grab a Bible.
If you do then there is some hope for you.
i see - i didn't capitalize the word god- so I am going to hell.
 

someone

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n_v said:
Then you shouldn't be posting about anyting religious. Grab a Bible.
If you do then there is some hope for you.
If you are really that religious, how do you reconcile your hobbying with the bibe?
 

cyrus

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someone said:
If you are really that religious, how do you reconcile your hobbying with the bibe?
hey hobbying actually make ones faith stronger!
 

n_v

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red said:
i see - i didn't capitalize the word god- so I am going to hell.
No I didn't say that. But what I do find amusing is your quickness to chastize others for not being compasionate, respectful and understanding when you yourself didn't show those qualities.
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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n_v said:
No I didn't say that. But what I do find amusing is your quickness to chastize others for not being compasionate, respectful and understanding when you yourself didn't show those qualities.
lets see: you said "Thing is this is where you are wrong. He isn't a man of god. He is though, a man of God. If you know the difference then there may still be hope for you too."

I said: "not sure where you are going re capitalization"

your response was:
"Then you shouldn't be posting about anyting religious. Grab a Bible.
If you do then there is some hope for you."

what does any of this have to do with being compassionate?

I started this by questioning how he can consider himself to be compassionate when he was unwilling to see how is actions and words were hurting others. Its unclear how a discussion of my compassion or lack thereof should enter into it. You seem to want to take a discussion and turn it back on the debater rather than discuss the issue or public figure at hand.
 
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