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Civil Liberties - what do you think?

islandboy

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I am told that in France and other civil law countries your accusers may not be required to come and testify against you. You can be held without sleep for 48 hours and interrogated without charges being pressed - and investigative judge puts you "in question".. Confessions in the last few hours are frequent.
In the US the Patriot Act is vilified.
Not in France. What do you think. This is a French reaction to Guantanamo which is in next weeks Economist.

"The French criminal-justice system makes a crackdown easy. Terrorist suspects can be held for 96 hours without charge. Under a 1996 law, they can be detained by a judge for “association with wrongdoers involved in a terrorist enterprise�: this covers not just conspirators, but those in their circle. Since January 2004, several members of the Benchellali family have been held on such charges, linked to plans for a chemical bomb. All four French suspects released from Guantánamo Bay, one of them a Benchellali, were detained on their return home. “We have a particularly repressive criminal-justice regime,� deplores one of their lawyers. As many as 35% of prisoners in France are in “provisional detention� awaiting trial, a process that can take years.

In other countries, this might be a subject for liberal hand-wringing. But the detention of the Guantánamo Bay four provoked little comment in France. Most people in France see it as a price to pay to protect liberal society. “We must never find ourselves in a position of powerlessness,� insists Mr de Villepin. “Democratic governments must ensure order, as this is the guarantee of our freedoms.� Far from prompting debate on the balance between civil liberties and security, Mr de Villepin's approach has been applauded—and his popularity has risen, encouraging those who see him as the next prime minister.

I hear all those who write and say that Amercia wants to be an Empire. Just how do you do this when you are not relatively repressive at home?

(I know that this question is so broad that there are lots of ways to take shots. Good hunting.)
 

onthebottom

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NPR reported that more people die of old age on death row in the US than are executed - would that imply too many avenues of appeal or am I too hard hearted with convicted murders?

France has first hand experience with Terrorism, makes one less theoretical perhaps.

OTB
 

papasmerf

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if that were to happen in the US, there would be hundreds of posts here about it.
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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thats because we expect better from the US, no expects anything from the french except wine. and women, maybe some cheese, oh and good bread, the occasional accordian player,,,
 

someone

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papasmerf said:
if that were to happen in the US, there would be hundreds of posts here about it.
That might be true but remember that we are right next to the U.S and they speak the same language. It is natural that people here are more aware of what is going on in the U.S. I doubt if that many of us even have the Frence language skills necessary to really follow events in France, even if they were as important to us as the U.S is.
 

ocean976124

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The British have had similiar laws for terrorism suspects. They've had trial without jury, detention without charge, etc. for a few decades now.
 

papasmerf

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someone said:
That might be true but remember that we are right next to the U.S and they speak the same language. It is natural that people here are more aware of what is going on in the U.S. I doubt if that many of us even have the Frence language skills necessary to really follow events in France, even if they were as important to us as the U.S is.

Ummmmmmmmm by law you are a bi-lingual country and can anyone tell me the lagguage other than english spoken in Canada? Now with the strong allegiance to the french found in Canada; I would have thought there would be outrage.
 

slowpoke

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ocean976124 said:
The British have had similiar laws for terrorism suspects. They've had trial without jury, detention without charge, etc. for a few decades now.
Their law just took a hit! An appeals court just voted 8 - 1 against it:

"TONY EASTLEY: It's been a bad week for British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, losing a senior minister and now an important court case.

Home Secretary David Blunkett – the lynchpin of Labour's law and order re-election strategy – quit earlier this week over a lover's scandal.

Less than 24 hours later, the highest court in the land overruled one of the Blair Government's key anti-terror measures.

In a damming judgement the Law Lords ruled that locking up suspected foreign terrorists without trial is in breach of European human rights laws."

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2004/s1267427.htm
 

someone

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papasmerf said:
Ummmmmmmmm by law you are a bi-lingual country and can anyone tell me the lagguage other than english spoken in Canada? Now with the strong allegiance to the french found in Canada; I would have thought there would be outrage.
Actually, the only province in Canada that is officially bilingual is New Brunswick. I currently live in a province that is unofficially bilingual (English and Newfoundland English, :)) . There are a lot more kids going to Immersion schools (French Immersion, not Newfoundland Immersions) that there used to be. However, if you have spend any time in Canada, you will know that except for Quebec, New Brunswick and some outposts in the rest of the country (including, surprisingly enough Alberta), French is not common. More surprising is that outside of the big cities, you run across a surprising number of people in Quebec who are English only.

However, none of has much to do with the basic point of my post that American politics is far more important to Canada than French politics. Thus, even if they spoke English in French we would be less aware of French politics.
 

WoodPeckr

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You ain't seen nothing yet!

Here is what Bush/Cheney and their neocon Roundheads are working on right now.....can you say shortly ....what Civil Rights? This is only the beginning of the Homeland 'purifications' to come!
Sleep well as ......
STALIN SMILES WITH BROAD APPROVAL FROM HIS GRAVE!

US Said to Mull Lifetime Terror-Suspect Detentions

1 hour, 15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration is preparing plans for possible lifetime detention of suspected terrorists, including hundreds whom the government does not have enough evidence to charge in courts, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

Citing intelligence, defense and diplomatic officials, the newspaper said the Pentagon and the CIA had asked the White House to decide on a more permanent approach for those it would not set free or turn over to courts at home or abroad.

As part of a solution, the Defense Department, which holds 500 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, plans to ask the U.S. Congress for $25 million to build a 200-bed prison to hold detainees who are unlikely to ever go through a military tribunal for lack of evidence, defense officials told the newspaper.

The new prison, dubbed Camp 6, would allow inmates more comfort and freedom than they have now, and would be designed for prisoners the government believes have no more intelligence to share, The Post said.

"It would be modeled on a U.S. prison and would allow socializing among inmates," the paper said.

"Since global war on terror is a long-term effort, it makes sense for us to be looking at solutions for long-term problems," Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, was quoted as saying. "This has been evolutionary, but we are at a point in time where we have to say, 'How do you deal with them in the long term?"'

A Pentagon spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke of the Air Force, had no information on the reported plan.

The Post said the outcome of a review under way would also affect those expected to be captured in the course of future counterterrorism operations.

One proposal would transfer large numbers of Afghan, Saudi and Yemeni detainees from the U.S. military's Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention center into new U.S.-built prisons in their home countries, it said.

The prisons would be operated by those countries, but the State Department, where this idea originated, would ask them to abide by recognized human rights standards and would monitor compliance, a senior administration official was quoted as saying.

link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20050102/ts_nm/security_usa_dc

Welcome to Bush's AmeriKKKa!!!
 

someone

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I really can't see the U.S. supreme court allowing this to happen.
 

onthebottom

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bbking said:
That report is a bit skewed - if you take out California's 600 plus death row imates, the execution rate is very high. That number is very misleading and is designed by supporters of capital punishment to say "See it ain't all that bad".

Come to think of it, one has to wonder why California even bothers to have capital punishment when they average only one execution a year. At that rate Scott Peterson gets the needle in 2604. You think they will still use lethal injection then or will it be some molecule scrambler that does the dirty deed.


bbk
NPR would not exactly be a conservative think-tank..... I agree on CA, no idea why they bother - we do need to sort out the appeal process.

OTB
 
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