Toronto Escorts

Echoes of Bob Rae: provincial government screws us over

fozzy

Dinosaur
Jun 16, 2003
548
0
0
Richmond Hill
Today's Toronto Sun reports that the provincial government is out to ban smoking everywhere but on your own private property by May 31, 2006.

<http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/12/16/784653-sun.html>

While I really do think it's a good idea to protect people - especially people like bar employees who might not have a lot of career choices - from second hand smoke, the province needs to remember that hundreds of establishments in the GTA - an area that probably represents half the province's population and more than half its business - just invested tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in smoking rooms based on the municipalities' assurances that this would allow them to keep smoking customers for at least a few years to come. It's bad enough that they might lose some business from smokers, but some owners are not going to be able to pay off the cost of useless renovations.

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that a government that has broken one promise after another since being elected would screw over so many small business owners and their employees. They probably know they'll be on their way out of Queen's Park by the time some of these businesses go under and their employees are on the unemployment line.

Thanks, all you fools who fell for the Fiberals' promises and voted for them.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
63
The Keebler Factory
*rolls eyes*

Another politician-basher.

Personally, I think any bar owner that put in a smoking room is an idiot. I mean, what, did you really think that was going to be permitted as an alternative? Please. The writing was on the wall; they just didn't heed it.

Now, that being said, I would allow those with existing smoking rooms (key word: existing) a grace period to pay off the money they spent. The amount of time would depend on what it cost to put the room in (but under no circumstances would it be more than 5 years).

But really folks, open your eyes and smell the coffee. Smoking is on its way out. Get used to it. Don't make business plans based on smoking revenue cuz, guess what, it's not gunna be there.

Finally, barring some catastrophic screw up, the Liberals will be reelected next election. Why? Because that's who the majority of Ontarians want running things - not the Conservatives. Sorry to burst your bubble...

p.s. "Echoes of Bob Rae..."??? Uh, the Conservatives screwed us over equally as much. Can you say, 407? Electricity reforms? Education system? You should really try and make a more balanced and credible argument; posting such comments just makes you look like another Conservative extremist.
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
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Toronto
I am a provincial conservative, a smoker and I support the bans.

It is a dirty habit, it's tough to quit and it has adverse effects on you and those around you.

The bans will cost some people money but it is in everyone's best interest to continue to demonize tobacco and work towards a future where nobody smokes cigarettes.

Peace.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
I agree with the goverment banning smoking in all public places. At most of them you sometimes don't have a choice of being there or not.
With the ban in restaurants and other private places, the goverment has clearly overstepped it's authority.
It should be up to me as a owner on how I want to run my business. If you as a patron don't like my place because of smoking, you have the choice to frequent another place.
Nobody forces you to stay at my bar and restaurant. If an owner sees that his business is suffering due to smoking, it should be left up to him to change it.
What's next? Goverment telling you, that you can't smoke at home?
Who respects the right of the smokers? it is ironic, that we are contemplating the legalisation of pot, but want to ban smoking in private places. That doesn't make any sense.

BTW,
I have smoked for over twenty years, sometimes two packs a day. One day I got sick and the doctor suggested I quit, and I did. That was 16 years ago.
I don't buy the argument that you can't quit smoking, if you really want to. If you can't quit, it is because you are not ready to quit.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
i think they should have a law making everyone smoke- then we wouldn't have to worry about second hand smoke
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
0
0
Toronto
langeweile said:
With the ban in restaurants and other private places, the goverment has clearly overstepped it's authority.
It should be up to me as a owner on how I want to run my business.
That's a wise business stance...

...as you wait for the Gov to approve your liquor liscence, fire code and several other compliance codes

or

...as you wait for a disgruntled employee to sue over work environment re: second hand smoke

or

...as you await renovation permits to be approved

Languish, 20 years smoking + 16 years quit should at least equal a brain with life and business experience but as usual I'll peg ya as a 15 y/o kid. It's tough when you get left behind and just watch bellybutton TV all the time.
 

n_v

Banned
Aug 26, 2001
2,006
0
36
blitz said:
Languish, 20 years smoking + 16 years guit should at least equal a brain with life and business experience but as usual I'll peg ya as a 15 y/o kid. It's tough when you get left behind and just watch bellybutton TV all the time.
ROTFLMAO :D

.. good one blitz
 

n_v

Banned
Aug 26, 2001
2,006
0
36
I agree with Keebler, the writing waso nthe wall for these businesses. The smoke rooms have been around for a year and half already, another year and half till this Provincial ban gets put into place and that gives you the few years the municipalities were talking about. Good law to bring forth and make it level across the whole province.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
blitz said:
That's a wise business stance...

...as you wait for the Gov to approve your liquor liscence, fire code and several other compliance codes

or

...as you wait for a disgruntled employee to sue over work environment re: second hand smoke

or

...as you await renovation permits to be approved

Languish, 20 years smoking + 16 years quit should at least equal a brain with life and business experience but as usual I'll peg ya as a 15 y/o kid. It's tough when you get left behind and just watch bellybutton TV all the time.
not sure what your rambling has to do with anything I said. Please enlighten me.
Not sure what my age has to do., with the goverment trying to intervene in someones private business.
Nobody forces you to smoke or forces you to attend a place were there is smoking.
In any case it doesn't matter too me, because I don't smoke.

It is astonishing how lemmings like you, are consistently willing to give up all personal freedoms. Because of your own incapability to take responsibility for your own actions.

While i might or might not be watching bellybutton TV ,at least I am in charge of my own life, and have never looked to the goverment to run my life.

Go ahead, sit back and let "Big Brother"tell you what to do next. I will lead to mediocrity in the long run. Hey it's your life not mine.


As Thomas Paine said....read below

Just for the record....I do own my own buisness, and it is doing very well...Thank you
 

fozzy

Dinosaur
Jun 16, 2003
548
0
0
Richmond Hill
Keebler Elf said:
Another politician-basher.
But it's so easy thanks to their conduct.

Now, that being said, I would allow those with existing smoking rooms (key word: existing) a grace period to pay off the money they spent. The amount of time would depend on what it cost to put the room in (but under no circumstances would it be more than 5 years).
Now, that's why it's easy to bash the politicians: I don't know how long you thought about it, but you came up with a reasonable compromise that tries to keep everyone's interests at heart and deals with the reality. There's no mention of any such provision in the press. You recognize that you want to do as little harm as possible in the name of doing good.

Finally, barring some catastrophic screw up, the Liberals will be reelected next election. Why? Because that's who the majority of Ontarians want running things - not the Conservatives. Sorry to burst your bubble...
Catastrophic screwup or not (look at the feds: replace the GST, renegotiate free trade, gun registry costing orders of magniture more than forecast, HRDS spending untracked billions, and the sponsorship scandal to demonstrate that money not accounted for is not likely money spent wisely), I have to agree that it's likely the Fiberals will be re-eplected... but because we'd rather vote for the people who promise us whatever we want to hear but don't deliver (so we can blame them for any problems that result) rather than vote for the people who actually follow through on their promises (because we can't deal with te responsibility for the costs - and, yes, screwups - that result. I'll admit to being a conservative (note: small "c") extremist, and I can't hide the fact that the Harris government screwed up royally more than their fair share... but I think they did what they promised (whether well or poorly), which is more than I can say for the current ruling partis in Queen's Park or Parliament Hill.

Or maybe McGuinty & co. will take it for granted that he can make any promise he likes and not carry through, and voters will fall for it again.

Anyway, this rant was supposed to be primarily about how the province is about to screw over a bunch of businessfolk by barging into something that many municipalitiers were already handling.
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
0
0
Toronto
Languish,

Apparently your business is not a club, lounge, bar or restaurant. Otherwise, you would have the forsight to realize what hurdles the future holds for your business. In Toronto, like San Fran and LA, coming to a city near you soon, smoking is over. Dead. Done. Sorry, it's gone.

Aside from bitching about the inevitable, the only other choice is to dig into your heritage and try to find aboriginal roots so that you can start a reservation with exemptions.

So, since we have determined that your business is not one of the above feel free to delete your unnecessary posts from this thread. Your personal feelings of freedoms and personal habits have no bearing on the legislation that is coming hard and fast with solid enforcement.

In short, non resident, go back to watching your naval and plan for a future beyond the next pay period.
 

fozzy

Dinosaur
Jun 16, 2003
548
0
0
Richmond Hill
langeweile said:
It should be up to me as a owner on how I want to run my business. If you as a patron don't like my place because of smoking, you have the choice to frequent another place.
Nobody forces you to stay at my bar and restaurant.
That's all well and good for the patrons, but what about the employees, some of whom (as I put it in my first message) don't have a lot of career choices? Time was, if they wanted to work in a smoke-free environment, they had few employment opportunities. That's changing, and the change is good for all of us in the long run, but you can't go making fast hard changes to the business playing field, especially when small businessfolk (you know, "the engine of the economy"?) have made investments based on understood horizons.

I suppose there's still hope that the government might implement some kind of grandfather clause like Keebler suggested and give the bars 2-4 years to go clean. For a long time there's been talk about banning smoking rooms in 2007, and that's probably a reasonable time frame and it's part of what went into some bar owners' decisions about whether to build smoking rooms. Changing that to early 2006 - just over a year away - could be tough for some.

Oh, and n_v said "The smoke rooms have been around for a year and half already" - in fact, smoking rooms were not required in bars until six months ago, June 1st of this year if I recall correctly.
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
0
0
Toronto
Those that have invested in the smoking rooms will be grandfathered and/or will write a considerable operating expense upon 2007 taxes. Smart business people adapt, they take advantage of new trends, hell they set the trends.

It's all good and the people that want to go out will figure it out and ideally not smoke. The thought process is very simple and the upside is a heathier, better looking, better smelling population.

People can fight, it's their right. They will lose. Either way, they will lose.

Peace.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
blitz said:
Languish,

Apparently your business is not a club, lounge, bar or restaurant. Otherwise, you would have the forsight to realize what hurdles the future holds for your business. In Toronto, like San Fran and LA, coming to a city near you soon, smoking is over. Dead. Done. Sorry, it's gone.

Aside from bitching about the inevitable, the only other choice is to dig into your heritage and try to find aboriginal roots so that you can start a reservation with exemptions.

So, since we have determined that your business is not one of the above feel free to delete your unnecessary posts from this thread. Your personal feelings of freedoms and personal habits have no bearing on the legislation that is coming hard and fast with solid enforcement.

In short, non resident, go back to watching your naval and plan for a future beyond the next pay period.
You are missing the point completely. From your response I can tell that it will be a waste of thread to discuss it.

You believe that goverment is there to solve all your problems. I respect your believes.

I believe that people in general are much better equipped to decide what is good for them or not. IMHO goverment is an necessary evil an should be kept to a minimum.

There is a need for goverment to establish safety rules over businesses, work rules and other legal issues, over which you as a patron have no control over.
Smoking and allowing smoking in a private place of business is a personal decision. NOBODY forces you to be in that place or work there.
You are right that smoking is dead, this is a good thing. If there is no demand for smoking places, those businesses either change or will go bankrupt. These things take care of themselves.

What is next?
Maybe there should be a law, baning smoking in your own house or your car. Why not? They are innocent people that could get hurt.

Isn't the same argument that you make against smoking, not true for alcohol and pot too? We however have decided to legalize pot. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Don;t light up a cigarette, have a joint instead...HUH nonsense nonsense nonsense.

We all know waht happened when we banned alcohol??

I guess we have to agree to disagree on the role of goverment.

And no my good friend..I won't roll over and keep my mouth shut, just because it is a new law.
Questioning your goverment is a civil responsibility.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
5,086
0
0
In a van down by the river
The ontario provincial goverment is wasting it's time tackling irrelevant issues.
Pittbull ban? smoking ban? gay marriageg

How about?
1 Million people in Ontario without a doctor. Skyrocketing energy costs. Infrastructure problems in Ottawa(sewer backups), school funding etc...
 

contrail

I'd rather be flying
Dec 12, 2004
67
0
0
Business owners in Toronto who invested in smoking rooms did so knowing there was a limited time horizon involved. That plus a well-communicated provincial plan to introduce similar rules means no one should now be surprised.
 

contrail

I'd rather be flying
Dec 12, 2004
67
0
0
langeweile said:
I have smoked for over twenty years, sometimes two packs a day. One day I got sick and the doctor suggested I quit, and I did. That was 16 years ago.
I don't buy the argument that you can't quit smoking, if you really want to. If you can't quit, it is because you are not ready to quit.
Nicotine addiction is powerful. The benefit of these laws will be to lower the threshold of will power needed to break the habit. Some people just can't resist the temptation caused by smell of someone else's smoke - especially during one of those weak moments, a few drinks - whatever. Maybe this will give them a chance of succeeding without a monumental effort or having to wait to become sick.
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
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0
Toronto
Dude, this thread is about Gov imposing it's will on business not the individual.

Your focus is on a subpoint, the individual. It has no bearing.

The individual has no right to do as they please in a place of business. The Gov, with their ability to affect business, rightly or wrongly, has decided to ban smoking.

End of story, the individual has no choice, it's not their establishment and they do not control the space around them full of innocent people that may not be smoking.

Sure they can buy the smokes, sure they pay super tax loads into the Gov coffers but they cannot choose where they can expose others to the dangers of smoking.

Smoke at home, in your car, at the park but the Gov is working towards a very powerful statement that "you will not smoke in a public place where you will endanger yourself and others".

You can drink but you can't drink and drive.

The rights of the individual are often supplanted by the many, that's WHY we have government.

Hopefully pot will be semi legal soon but that is because socially we're intelligent enough in Canada to know that we're not gonna spark it everywhere up in people's faces. We have realized that it is a crime stat on par with speeding.

My last point for the next few hours...

"Questioning your goverment is a civil responsibility."

This statement is hi-freaking-larious coming from you bro.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
langeweile said:
The ontario provincial goverment is wasting it's time tackling irrelevant issues.
Pittbull ban? smoking ban? gay marriageg

How about?
1 Million people in Ontario without a doctor. Skyrocketing energy costs. Infrastructure problems in Ottawa(sewer backups), school funding etc...
Holy crap!

I couldn't agree more.
:(

Must be the season ......
BAH! HUMBUG!
There. That's better.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
blitz said:

"Questioning your goverment is a civil responsibility."

This statement is hi-freaking-larious coming from you bro.
hehe
Touché.
:D
 
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